hfhmilkman
Active Member
That I would agree. Most everyone goes to the camps. So harder to be a diamond in the rough.
FWST: National Signing Day: TCU misses out on Jaden Rashada
- Thread starter TopFrog
- Start date
ticketfrog123
Active Member
Are we comparing Trevor Lawrence caliber guys to josh Hoover?
McFroggin
Active Member
Hoover just isn’t close to ready to lead this team.
The argument seems to be that a couple top 4 QB’s are ready by their redshirt freshman year, so Hoover is good to be #2 and could be the next Bryce Young.
froginmn
Full Member
The question was, what top 25 schools started freshmen?
You seem to not like the answer.
Not my problem.
McFroggin
Active Member
It’s not us, so you tell me. Which team started freshmen in the CFP final 25.
Jefffrog1993
KMA
Look at NFL and great teams in college football, two qb’s are the best at offense. I just want a great dual threat qb. I trust the coaches to find and play the best qb.
froginmn
Full Member
Texas
Oregon St
NC State
Clemson
And yes, a couple of those kids were highly rated, but guess what ratings kids who sign with Top 25 teams often have?
McFroggin
Active Member
Clemson didn’t play a freshman QB until what the ACC championship? That QB was the #1 high school QB.
Texas - Ewers was a legit full year freshman - also #1 QB in high school.
Oregon State - used 2 QB’s for most of 2022. Neither was a freshman or redshirt freshman
NC State - junior started most of 2022 and was replaced by a redshirt sophomore. No freshman.
froginmn
Full Member
"Clemson didn’t play a freshman QB until what the ACC championship? That QB was the #1 high school QB."Clemson didn’t play a freshman QB until what the ACC championship? That QB was the #1 high school QB.
Texas - Ewers was a legit full year freshman - also #1 QB in high school.
Oregon State - used 2 QB’s for most of 2022. Neither was a freshman or redshirt freshman
Ben Gulbranson - Football - Oregon State University Athletics
Ben Gulbranson (17) Quarterback - 2022 (REDSHIRT FRESHMAN) • SRS Distribution Las Vegas Bowl Most Valuable Player • Academic All-District • Played in 1...osubeavers.com
NC State - junior started most of 2022 and was replaced by a redshirt sophomore. No freshman.
Actually Klubnik played in ten games but didn't start until late in the season.
"Oregon State - used 2 QB’s for most of 2022. Neither was a freshman or redshirt freshman"
Read Ben Gulbranson's bio. He was a redshirt freshman this year and started eight games.
Ben Gulbranson - Football - Oregon State University Athletics
Ben Gulbranson (17) Quarterback - 2022 (REDSHIRT FRESHMAN) • SRS Distribution Las Vegas Bowl Most Valuable Player • Academic All-District • Played in 1...
"NC State - junior started most of 2022 and was replaced by a redshirt sophomore. No freshman."
Ben Finley had a COVID year in 2020 and played three games in 2021. He was a RS-FR in 2022 and is now listed as a RS-SO (for 2023).
Ben Finley - 2023 - Football - NC State University Athletics
Ben Finley (10) QB - 2021 SEASON: • Backup quarterback who saw at that position in three games, including a high of 16 snaps in the win over Furman. • Came
I'm not even sure what your point was but you're wrong. Five teams that finished in the top 25 started a freshman in a game. Not clear why under your rules Morris doesn't count but there are four others.
And for good measure, Gulbranson and Finley were three star recruits.
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McFroggin
Active Member
My argument is about how freshmen aren’t ready, particularly Hoover. Morris (redshirt sophomore) struggled out of the gate last year and never regained starter status. Hoover won’t be ready this year. QB’s need time to adjust to the college game. It’s a big adjustment for them. TCU wasn’t top 25 when Morris was starting and likely wouldn’t have finished top 25 if Max hadn’t stepped up. Either way Morris isn’t an argument as he wasn’t a freshman. It was his 3rd college year last year."Clemson didn’t play a freshman QB until what the ACC championship? That QB was the #1 high school QB."
Actually Klubnik played in ten games but didn't start until late in the season.
"Oregon State - used 2 QB’s for most of 2022. Neither was a freshman or redshirt freshman"
Read Ben Gulbranson's bio. He was a redshirt freshman this year and started eight games.
Ben Gulbranson - Football - Oregon State University Athletics
Ben Gulbranson (17) Quarterback - 2022 (REDSHIRT FRESHMAN) • SRS Distribution Las Vegas Bowl Most Valuable Player • Academic All-District • Played in 1...
"NC State - junior started most of 2022 and was replaced by a redshirt sophomore. No freshman."
Ben Finley had a COVID year in 2020 and played three games in 2021. He was a RS-FR in 2022 and is now listed as a RS-SO (for 2023).
Ben Finley - 2023 - Football - NC State University Athletics
Ben Finley (10) QB - 2021 SEASON: • Backup quarterback who saw at that position in three games, including a high of 16 snaps in the win over Furman. • Camegopack.com
I'm not even sure what your point was but you're wrong. Five teams that finished in the top 25 started a freshman in a game. Not clear why under your rules Morris doesn't count but there are four others.
And for good measure, Gulbranson and Finley were three star recruits.
True Klubnik played earlier, but Clemson wasn’t top 25 due to his play. Klubnik was finally relevant at the end of the season.
Finley and Gulbranson have been at their respective schools for 3 full years now. They are freshmen by Covid year math only. Any other time in history they would be redshirt sophomores or juniors.
Ewers was essentially the only freshman - true or typical 1 year redshirt to lead his team to top 25 in 2022.
So if Morris gets injured, the only team in 2022 that had equivalent experience starting at QB was UT with Ewers when looking at Hoover’s readiness.
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Hoosierfrog
Tier 1
Eight
Member
your argument would be stronger if you simply said you didn't think morris was a top 25 quarterback instead of trying to back that position with actual events
he didn't play well in the first half cu, but aside from derius on the punt return the first half was basically the defense trying to hang on to make stops and no real phase of the offense working well be it the run game, passing game, morris' play, or the play calling
chandler might not have been a potential top 25 quarterback in the first half, but he looked the part in his two series in the second half before the injury
same with your comments about hoover, if you believe he isn't ready so be it, but then you put out a challenge so to speak that someone met
we don't know what chandler can do for a season or if he can last a season and we don't know what hoover could have done last year
what i do know is they are the two scholarship qb's on the roster at this time and we are a very long way from august
McFroggin
Active Member
More of a reading comprehension issue on your end. You brought up Morris. I’ve been debating Hoover and the need for a #2 QB
Eight
Member
except you went out of your way to specifically point out how "Morris (redshirt sophomore) struggled out of the gate last year" and "TCU wasn’t top 25 when Morris was starting and likely wouldn’t have finished top 25 if Max hadn’t stepped up" which again, and please correctly me if i am reading it wrong, is a direct comment about chandler morris
82 Frog Fever
Active Member
I saw enough of Morris against Baylor and 2nd half of Colorado to believe he is very capable of running TCU’s offense at a high level; however, I also believe he is fragile.
We have a long way to go. Sonny and Briles will find at least one QB that will compete with Chandler for #1. We need a Jaxson Dart type, which is possible.
Then we need a new competitive #3. Hoover is a good pocket passer with a great deep ball, but doesn’t run more than a few steps. The offense would be very Iimited if he had to play any significant time.
We have a long way to go. Sonny and Briles will find at least one QB that will compete with Chandler for #1. We need a Jaxson Dart type, which is possible.
Then we need a new competitive #3. Hoover is a good pocket passer with a great deep ball, but doesn’t run more than a few steps. The offense would be very Iimited if he had to play any significant time.
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McFroggin
Active Member
You brought him up, so I finally responded on how he isn’t relevant to my argument.
What I listed are facts. Chandler will be entering his 4th year in NCAA. I’m not saying Chandler couldn’t become a great QB if healthy. Multiple games last year were won on Max’s shoulders. We could have easily been a 4-5 loss team (unranked) if not for his clutch play. TCU wasn’t ranked in any poll when Morris was starting. Morris did struggle his first game. All facts. All demonstrate why it’s incredibly hard for a 3 star 2nd year player (Hoover) to be starter ready when most top 25 teams don’t even have a 3rd year QB starting yet (Finley, Chandler, etc in your argument).
Look at Max. How many years did it take for a highly rated recruit in Max for him to finally be a Heisman candidate? Development takes time.
I’m not knocking any of our QB’s future potential. Hoover may put it together eventually. Chandler has made big strides. If healthy, he could be ready to make a big statement this year. If injured early, Hoover isn’t ready.
An-Cap Frog
Member
To add, I felt good about Max throwing his body around and fighting for first downs in 2022 because Morris was so capable. With unknown depth at the QB position, I hope the play calling adjusts and they do what they can to keep Morris upright. What does this mean? No read option or QB power on critical third downs.
froginmn
Full Member
Yes but in talking about Drake Maye, who DID start games when UNC was ranked, you discount that because UNC didn't finish the season ranked.
So you have a completely asinine set of requirements:
Freshman QB must play for a team that finished the season ranked
Must have started a game or games at the time they were ranked
Must not have come in as a highly rated prospect
Despite being classified as a redshirt freshman, can't have been on a 2020 roster (because that year was apparently very productive)
When you set all of those weird parameters, yes there are a limited number of guys who qualify.
The strangest thing is that you've set up all of these convoluted rules to "prove" that Josh Hoover isn't ready to lead a top 25 TCU, which is a point that exactly nobody would argue. Everyone on this board believes that our staff isn't dumb enough to have only Morris and Hoover on the depth chart and that they'll bring in a transfer with potential to start if need be.
But if you're trying to argue that freshmen aren't ready to play, that pendulum has swung in the other direction due to HS camps and position-specific coaching.
There are plenty of QB's starting as freshmen; you'll see them if you stop trying not to (Caleb Williams, Jaxson Dart, Seth Henigan, Tyler Buchner, JJ McCarthy, Athan Kaliakmanis, Dillon Gabriel,.......).
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