FWST: LaDainian Tomlinson challenges TCU to examine its past, ties to racial injustice

[2themax]

If your employer does not turn a profit they will not be your employer much longer. He was offered a free education and a chance to play. I doubt anyone knew he would be that good.

Doubt TCU turned a profit in the WAC days.

Kinda sideways from the point.
Football athletes generate revenue for their institutions as a whole.
Don't pretend it's all give and no take.

 

[Eight]

I appreciate your illustrious exploits and accomplishments, but what does that have to do with the subject at hand.
The topic is realistic US history being taught in the US.

define "realistic" history and give an example

not disputing or debating, but wanting to understand exactly what it is you would like to see taught that isn't and what needs to be changed

as fff pointed out, tactile change is going to be key, but for it to be effective we have to have a starting point

 

[2themax]

And whoever you are learning it from has slanted it also so the quicker you realize that when you hear all sides - the truth is somewhere in the middle the faster you will learn something valuable

my wife’s PHD is in American History before 1804 and she will tell you that the written history of 7 countries with claims to the US in that time frame and 50 tribes are all right and wrong and all different at the same time

So even if it is the middle (which imo it's not), why isn't it publicly taught?
Finally getting somewhere right?

 

[2themax]

define "realistic" history and give an example

not disputing or debating, but wanting to understand exactly what it is you would like to see taught that isn't and what needs to be changed

as fff pointed out, tactile change is going to be key, but for it to be effective we have to have a starting point

My intention is not to agitate, but rather bring attention to something that is blatantly omitted.
I feel your questions are sincere and the absence of awareness is exactly what I'm trying to articulate.
My black ancestors have a legitimate and significant place in this country's history.

 

[Pharm Frog]

define "realistic" history and give an example

not disputing or debating, but wanting to understand exactly what it is you would like to see taught that isn't and what needs to be changed

as fff pointed out, tactile change is going to be key, but for it to be effective we have to have a starting point

After seeing what both my children were “taught” in high school and college classrooms, I’d suggest that they aren’t being “taught” much of anything.

 

[2themax]

i am confused on a view things you keep coming back to and they center around things that you mention that no one is denying

please point out the poster or the reply in which the history of this country (let alone any country) is perfectly rosy, that all indigenous people were treated fairly, that the economic development of this country wasn't built on the back of the poor, imigrant, and slave labor, or stated the slavery was a good thing

it is almost as if we are either all in or against which i am a bit confused just as i am about why the athletic department making or losing money is relevant to recognizing the history of the school

My original post was to point out that no one wants to erase US history.
It needs to be taught fully.
It is not.

 

[Pharm Frog]

My intention is not to agitate, but rather bring attention to something that is blatantly omitted.
I feel your questions are sincere and the absence of awareness is exactly what I'm trying to articulate.
My black ancestors have a legitimate and significant place in this country's history.

And I can assure you that there is no shortage of women’s history, black history, Hispanic history, etc in the curriculum. In fact, AP history in high school is almost exclusively gender, race, and socioeconomic history. Now if they aren’t “teaching”, that’s not on anybody but the teacher.

 

[2themax]

After seeing what both my children were “taught” in high school and college classrooms, I’d suggest that they aren’t being “taught” much of anything.

Don't really know the intent of your post, but your comment is closer to the truth than what your children were taught.
My daughter is close to 23 and my son is 29 this summer. Both are college graduates.
I'm an '88 TCU graduate.
We're all are having to research and learn what was excluded.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

So even if it is the middle (which imo it's not), why isn't it publicly taught?
Finally getting somewhere right?

Guessing you missed the point

 

[Pharm Frog]

Don't really know the intent of your post, but your comment is closer to the truth than what your children were taught.
My daughter is close to 23 and my son is 29 this summer. Both are college graduates.
I'm an '88 TCU graduate.
We're all are having to research and learn what was excluded.

Name one thing of historical importance that is excluded from the curriculum.

 

[2themax]

I can see this point and agree with it. The question that comes from this is, how do you teach it correctly with the teaching environment that exist now for teachers to teach only what's on the state mandatory test? How do you have teachers teach this class without adding their own personal biases or views?

Put it in the tests.

 

[Endless Purple]

define "realistic" history and give an example

not disputing or debating, but wanting to understand exactly what it is you would like to see taught that isn't and what needs to be changed

as fff pointed out, tactile change is going to be key, but for it to be effective we have to have a starting point

Wasn't sure about replying in this thread, but it is directly about why I am back in school.

Your comment brought up a thought I have discussed in some of my classes about differences. I feel fortunate that I finished K-12 before the No Child Left Behind laws were implemented. among other laws since then. But back to the example, I left high school with the understanding that the civil war was about racism and slavery specifically and that it had also economic impact on the south. I have talked with many who finished school after me, and they were taught the civil war was about economics and their class may have touched upon slavery being used. So not a completely different history, but how the emphasis was applied in the classroom and the values that go with it. The modern version seems to hide the worse part of the war or tone it down to make US history seem more upbeat and not so scary or that there were bad people.

Even then, I was not taught all. For example, I did not learn there were black slave owners as well until much later. Also the first lawsuit to "own" another man in US courts was by an African American man to own another African American man. He also had a white indentured servant if I remember correctly.

 

[2themax]

Guessing you missed the point

I'm sorry for the miss.
We good.

 

[Endless Purple]

Name one thing of historical importance that is excluded from the curriculum.

This is a point that is an important question to ask. Historical importance to who? I feel strongly about certain facts of history such as dates of events, but even then there are different perspectives on who was right or wrong or the reason behind the event. This perspective issue is a major contention in education now and what goes on the standardized tests (which should be banned in my opinion).

A very good point with a very complex answer. A couple examples do you teach Andy Warhol and Picasso in an art or social science class or Michael Ray Charles and John Biggers? Time limits teaching all artists in classes. What about art by Norman Rockwell? I saw much of his war time magazine covers, but little of his civil rights paintings. Dates and war general's names are easy, but everything else gets harder,

 

[Endless Purple]

To the original topic - I am very much against erasing or cancel culture. Learn from our past, accept it, and move on.

 

[2themax]

To the original topic - I am very much against erasing or cancel culture. Learn from our past, accept it, and move on.

Can't learn what isn't taught.
That's my original point.

 

[Pharm Frog]

This is a point that is an important question to ask. Historical importance to who? I feel strongly about certain facts of history such as dates of events, but even then there are different perspectives on who was right or wrong or the reason behind the event. This perspective issue is a major contention in education now and what goes on the standardized tests (which should be banned in my opinion).

A very good point with a very complex answer. A couple examples do you teach Andy Warhol and Picasso in an art or social science class or Michael Ray Charles and John Biggers? Time limits teaching all artists in classes. What about art by Norman Rockwell? I saw much of his war time magazine covers, but little of his civil rights paintings. Dates and war general's names are easy, but everything else gets harder,

Perhaps there’s value in taking one of my favorite classes of all time: historiography.

 

[4th. down]

To the original topic - I am very much against erasing or cancel culture. Learn from our past, accept it, and move on.

Why is that so difficult for us to do?

 

[CountryFrog]

My original post was to point out that no one wants to erase US history.
It needs to be taught fully.
It is not.

Again, though, there's no way to teach history "fully" as there is far too much of it. Certain things will always have to be left out of any history course and certain things will always be a matter of interpretation and opinion. It always has been and always will be incumbent on individual people to decide which aspects they want to know more about and do their own research to form their own opinions.

You may view a lot of the omissions as being selective based on racism, sexism, nationalism, or whatever other ism and you may well be right because there's certainly a lot of that which has occurred throughout history. But it doesn't change the fact that giving this complete and full teaching of history that you keep bringing up is totally impossible even with the best of intentions.

 

[Salfrog]

Put it in the tests.

Again, not feasible in the classroom environment where they go thru chapters in books in rapid fire mode. Plus you still didn't address how you would be able to find teachers that would not put their biases & or political views/spins on the subjest matter. We can all say that we want the "real truth", but do we really? Are we truly ready for those true realities and will we accept them without any debate or skepticism? What omissions do you feel need to be taught? I'm sure there are a lot of omissions from text books in different subjects.