• The KillerFrogs

FWST: ‘There is no wrong.’ TCU’s Patterson delivers NIL message to local business leaders

Moose Stuff

Active Member
All this crap is going to destroy college athletics. I hate it and the problem is the big schools have more leverage than the NCAA or any hypothetical governing body so this train is going to have no breaks. Not until this all blows up in an explosion like the train at the end of Back to the Future 3 will people realize that they have been had.

This is the byproduct of listening to all these writers and journalists who hate sports anyway soapbox about how evil the NCAA is.

By the time it blows up I’m pretty sure I’ll be actively rooting for that to happen.
 

Shorty

Active Member
There was WAY more parity 20 years ago than there is today. Sure, it’s never going to be close to NFL-type parity, but it was night and day different not too long ago.
Fair enough and might explain the doom and gloom from many here. I didn't get into college football until 2004 when I started at TCU so I have a short history.
 

LVH

Active Member
The popularity of college football is going to drop immediately IMO. College football has long underestimated the unique demand associated with the idea of the amateur athlete seeking a degree. Doesn’t matter that this ideal has been tarnished for years. The original ideal is what propels it, not the quality of football. Hell it’s easy to watch the best football teams if that’s really what you seek, just turn on your TV - the NFL is the very best.

Moving college football player compensation away from the school’s wheelhouse (a degree) and toward their disillusioned fans ability to provide dollars to players is a death knell. Some schools may thrive to the extent their fans never valued degrees very highly anyway, but even Alabama will learn too late how much they miss Mercer, Southern Miss, and NMSU.

It's going to be the Crimson Tide Football Team sponsored by the University of Alabama because we will get to a point where none of these players even attend class or enroll at the university.
 

JogginFrog

Active Member
I think they already admit that. So what do you do about it? What is the solution?

I think 80% of the solution would be if the NCAA simply built a little deferred gratification into the process. Allow the kids to earn all they can, but require at least half of the earnings go into a retirement account or annuity to protect the principal. If the powers-that-be would allow it, let principal be accessed tax free after age 35.
 

LVH

Active Member
By the time it blows up I’m pretty sure I’ll be actively rooting for that to happen.

I already want it to happen. Things are out of control so I figure let's get it over with. Let's see the 32 team super league where the major schools break off from the NCAA, form their own organization that allows for school direct paying of players, no academic requirements, free for all recruiting, tampering, and such. Bring it on already so it will fail and we can maybe go back to a collegiate sports organization that makes sense in my lifetime.

Go to other message boards/websites full of SEC fans and they all desperately want this super league. They talk about how great it would be, how much money it would make, and how much better it would make college football. I hope a day comes where I can point and laugh at them and say I TOLD YOU SO when it fails miserably.
 

LVH

Active Member
There was WAY more parity 20 years ago than there is today. Sure, it’s never going to be close to NFL-type parity, but it was night and day different not too long ago.

Parity didn't matter 30-40 years ago because conferences were regional and the focus wasn't solely on the playoff/BCS bowls. And there weren't many bowls so going to any bowl was considered a big accomplishment.

Who cared whether you were national champion or the prestige of the bowl game you went to as long as you beat your regional rivals in your conference.
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
I already want it to happen. Things are out of control so I figure let's get it over with. Let's see the 32 team super league where the major schools break off from the NCAA, form their own organization that allows for school direct paying of players, no academic requirements, free for all recruiting, tampering, and such. Bring it on already so it will fail and we can maybe go back to a collegiate sports organization that makes sense in my lifetime.

Go to other message boards/websites full of SEC fans and they all desperately want this super league. They talk about how great it would be, how much money it would make, and how much better it would make college football. I hope a day comes where I can point and laugh at them and say I TOLD YOU SO when it fails miserably.

I won’t watch a second of that league. EVER.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
All this crap is going to destroy college athletics. I hate it and the problem is the big schools have more leverage than the NCAA or any hypothetical governing body so this train is going to have no breaks. Not until this all blows up in an explosion like the train at the end of Back to the Future 3 will people realize that they have been had.

This is the byproduct of listening to all these writers and journalists who hate sports anyway soapbox about how evil the NCAA is.

Agree, but NCAA is an easy punching bag. It is my understanding that the NCAA was created to run college athletics at the behest and direction of the college Presidents (the Boschinis of the world). Let’s hold them accountable for letting the $$$ blind them and turning them into potted plants.
 

Froggish

Active Member
I never said there was parity now. We still have everyone trying to compete with the big money (greed) schools. I think that if the schools that are most after the big money leave, the majority of those in the middle would be happy to not try to keep up with the big money. They may then try to compete for wins not who has the highest budget and most resort like training facilities.
Agree
 

flyfishingfrog

Active Member
I'm not a Donati fan (nor am I, literally, Donati), but just to correct the record here: ADJD was under orders from his bosses and university compliance. In a perfect world, the university would have been lining up deals left and right (even though that's kinda against the rules). I'm confident we are about to "catch up" real fast, and JD will be leading that effort.
so same line that is always used to defend ADJD....

The fact is the guy can't change anyone's mind about anything and is an order taker.

Real AD's are not waiting on their bosses decision for everything related to athletics and then hiding behind it - they are influencing it by presenting the need and getting the decision they want.

He is proving to be the definition of an empty suit lately.
 

Froggish

Active Member
Maybe these kids deserve some piece of pie. The problem with that is it will ruin the sport as it currently stands and I don’t have any interest in what this is turning into. Zero chance there aren’t millions of other people just like me across the country.

Obviously the university’s are getting a tremendous return on their player investment but the piece of the pie the kids deserve is at least somewhat simply a redistribution of the wealth the coaches have built. Last time I checked ESPN has never told TCU that their money distribution was based on wins and losses. Coaches are over paid tremendously. Even the best of them.
 

flyfishingfrog

Active Member
Competitive sports leagues are the one thing that needs a bit of "socialism" in order to survive, or at least make it interesting. It doesn't mirror the real world.

There is a reason why the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL have binding multi-year contracts and salary caps in place. Because without them, the teams in the smaller markets would have no chance to compete.

Your "free market" rants are pretty stupid sometimes.
yep- the NFL is the perfect example of why college football will fail.

The NFL has the draft, salary caps, contracts, free agency, rookie pay limits, vet mins, the PA, etc. to control a process and ensure there is some chance are parity.

And it works - top teams this year include Arizona, Cleveland and Kansas City - three teams that were bottom dwellers 15 years ago.

But in college football - Bama wins each year and still gets 5 of the top 10 draft picks, can raise as much money as they want and can steal players from other teams if they have a failure in their 3rd backup safety....

You think Vandy is ever going to pull at Cleveland Browns and suddenly compete for an NC?

Free market football will eventually lead to no football because not enough people will care anymore....
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
Obviously the university’s are getting a tremendous return on their player investment but the piece of the pie the kids deserve is at least somewhat simply a redistribution of the wealth the coaches have built. Last time I checked ESPN has never told TCU that their money distribution was based on wins and losses. Coaches are over paid tremendously. Even the best of them.

Coaches are paid exactly what they are worth. Not one penny more. Not one penny less.
 

BABYFACE

Full Member
which means what exactly? hear this, but what does that truly mean because the money flowing into these programs and being spent on these programs doesn't match any other part of the college environment and you are talking about a bubble world whose costs have exploded

according to the ncaa there are ~475k athletes participating at the various divisional levels.

additionally, according to the ncaa the combined money spent on all divisions of college sports in the ncaa for fiscal year 2019 was 18.8BILLION. 3.6B of that was spent on financial aid for student-athletes and 3.7B was compensation for coaches


so i ask again, exactly what does it mean to say it is still college athletics because i am fairly certain in no other aspect of the college experience do we see that level of spending per students involved in programs or that amount of money spent on staff

The best way I can put it is the current version of college athletics will implode. The new rule changes make it an unsustainable model. I am not even getting to conference realignment. It is the combination of the now no-sit transfer rule combined with NIL that is already being abused.

Basically when your top 5-8 players get poached every year because they are offered enough money to transfer out to a certain school without having to sit. Are you not seeing the ramifications from this?
 

Jackson

Active Member
Recruiting has essentially become a time share pitch and I'm not even joking. I know very well...

1. Get them on campus by offering the recruit and family free travel, accommodations, and meals.
2. Wow them with over the top exuberance that is mostly fake
3. Give them the tour of the campus and all it's "amenities"
4. Take them into a room and present your NIL Business plan Shark Tank Style (This is the new norm for anyone who wants to compete at the highest levels. This is the part TCU has been crapping the bed on)
5. Give the recruit an NFL Presentation with the HC
6. Apply pressure hoping you get at least a silent commit.
7. Send them home and contact them daily until they hate you or sign with you.

Rinse - repeat.....All that for a kid who may end up being a 3rd stringer for you....College athletics is insane.[/QUOTE
Most of the top talent have been told they’re “special” forever. Unfortunately the only way most of these immature, peer influenced athletes keep score will be “the size of their contracts’. They’ve all watched their idols sign $$$ contracts….they want theirs now. “SHOW ME THE MONEY!”
 

hiphopfroggy

Active Member
Ok, let’s have that conversation. Name me a successful team sports league in the history of the world where there was no draft, no cap on spending, no binding multi-year contracts, and almost total free agency?

Is this going to be the first one ever?

What you are describing is not that far off from European Football.

Of course they also just dealt with an attempted Super League breakaway but were able to stop it from happening with fan protests.


Using the relegation system would to wonders for College Football.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
What you are describing is not that far off from European Football.

Of course they also just dealt with an attempted Super League breakaway but were able to stop it from happening with fan protests.


Using the relegation system would to wonders for College Football.

Their players can freely switch teams after every year to the highest bidder? So teams don’t control the rights of players beyond the current year?
 

Jackson

Active Member
I would be surprised if I’m a College Football Fan 3 years from now. Its played a significant role in my relatively long life, but its clear that NIL is going to destroy the game that I loved.
 
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