Firing Fred Taylor started the Dark Days?

[Paint It Purple]

Just saw article in the new TCU Magazine about Coach Fred Taylor. I was always told that if Taylor hadn't been let go we would have never seen the dark days of Pitman, Tohill, Shofner. Taylor was successfully recruiting the good black athletes from the DFW area and when Pitman came in, he ran most of them off. Never have known whether to really believe that story or not. We had Charlie Davis and Ronnie Littleton then, but that's about it. Anybody really know the truth?

 

[HG73]

Hard to know that the real truth was. Fred was a very successful freshman coach, back when freshmen were not eligible. He seemed the logical choice to replace Abe Martin, a great coach, but people began to suspect that the game had passed him by. Maybe, maybe not. Fred didn't inherit much to work with and TCU lost most of their games when he was coach. Everyone was ready for a change and Pittman was brought in. Pittman did run off most all the black talent, died of a heart attack on the sidelines, Tohill was elevated and was just not head coaching material. None other than Frank Windegger later said that had Fred been given one more year that he would have turned things around. Windegger was not exactly the best AD we have had. Two platoon football became the rule just about that time and TCU's inability to adapt immediately was certainly one of the causes. But, Fred was certainly an excellent freshman team coach.

 

[Frogs Reign]

Laying fault to the downfall of the TCU football program at the feet of any one individual would be wrong. TCU admin and the Athletic Department failed to recognize and/or address the need to invest in the program by improving facilities (stadium, locker room, training, conditioning) back in the 60's and early 70's. TCU was already falling behind its SWC competition in these areas while Taylor was still coaching. We continued to put a bandaid on a hemorrhaging wound. But, did nothing to respond to what we now characterize as the "arms race" in college football. Pittman actually came in a had some early success before his untimely passing at the Baylor game. Subsequent head coaching hires may not have been the best (especially the promotion of Tohill from assistant to head coach). However, whether we had kept Taylor or hired a "Patterson" type coach back in the early 70's, we were already losing the "arms race" and the perception in the minds of the recruits.

Just my opinion - But, I would lay heavy blame at the TCU administration / leadership / BOT and the Athletic Department before an individual coaching hire.

 

[TopFrog]

Well how in the hell would anyone know Pittman would die mid-season? Or that Tohill would nearly kill himself in a crash? Hiring Shofner was a huge mistake, followed by Windegger who hired FA for reasons we are all well aware.

Releasing Taylor was incidental to what followed. Must not be a very intelligent magazine article if it is suggesting what the OP has stated.

 

[Paint It Purple]

Thanks 73 and Reign. Both your posts make a lot of sense.

 

[Paint It Purple]

Well how in the hell would anyone know Pittman would die mid-season? Or that Tohill would nearly kill himself in a crash? Hiring Shofner was a huge mistake, followed by Windegger who hired FA for reasons we are all well aware.

Releasing Taylor was incidental to to what followed. Must not be a very intelligent magazine article if it is saying what the OP has stated.

Top, the article didn't mention any of what I posted. I was there during Pitman, Tohill and Shofner. That is just what some people believed and told me at the time.

 

[TopFrog]

Top, the article didn't mention any of what I posted. I was there during Pitman, Tohill and Shofner. That is just what some people believed and told me at the time.

Well duh I guess if Taylor had not been let go when he was then what followed might not have happened. Beyond that I don't get the point.

 

[My Buddy Steve]

Well how in the hell would anyone know Pittman would die mid-season? Or that Tohill would nearly kill himself in a crash? Hiring Shofner was a huge mistake, followed by Windegger who hired FA for reasons we are all well aware.

Releasing Taylor was incidental to what followed. Must not be a very intelligent magazine article if it is suggesting what the OP has stated.

Please clarify the Tohill crash? And what's incidental?

 

[Paint It Purple]

I do buy into the idea that Pitman and Tohill hurt TCU's ability to recruit the better athletes in the DFW area.

 

[froginaustin]

Abe Martin staying on the job too long did TCU football no favors. Great man and great coach, but he was past time to retire when he did.

Not giving Fred Taylor the resources to really compete recruiting-wise (both players and assistant coaches) in the old SWC was certainly a big first step in the decline of TCU football. At the time (including my time as a TCU student) Fred was thought to be a very unimaginative coach, and several of his assistants were thought to be lousy coaches. Perhaps he simply did not have the resources to recruit enough top-drawer players, and the "unimaginative" rap was not accurate.

Players bugging out was not all on Pittman. When Fred was fired, a bunch of the players had attitude problems with the new staff and rumored conditioning problems, and Pittman was not one to suffer either. If there is blame for those Taylor-recruited players leaving, my guess is that there is plenty to spread around.

Ultimately any fault for the downfall of TCU football must come to rest with the decision makers, both in the administration and on the board. The buck(s) stops with them.

 

[TopFrog]

And Pittman was likely a very good hire. The team was starting to turn things around it appeared when he died. Me and my family were at that game in Waco. I happened to be looking at Pittman when he went down. I thought at first he had tripped over a headset cord or something.

 

[Paint It Purple]

Please clarify the Tohill crash? And what's incidental?

The prevailing belief was that Billy was drunk in the early morning crash. The story was that he fell asleep on a late night run to pick up game film.

 

[myn]

Larry Dibbles, Danny Colbert, Raymond Rhodes, Hodges Mitchell all transferred, a pretty fine group. Probably missing a couple. The blacks on campus wanted to install a chapter of Alpha Phi Alpha, couldn't get it done and had to go to UTA for inclusion. It was not a good landscape for blacks or the black athlete then. The Pittman/Tohill group hurt the effort for inclusion of the black athlete. Linzy Cole had already graduated and I think Ev Garnett was the only black that remained on the team after the mass exodus.

 

[froginaustin]

Please clarify the Tohill crash? And what's incidental?

Tohill drove drunk and had a bad one-car crash in a university-provided Lincoln. He was seriously injured, including the loss of a foot.

Elements of the community did not react kindly to the drinking/driving. Some of the more squeamish in the administration (Chancellor's wife, rumor had it) freaked out when Billy tried to use his (literally) bloody stump to motivate his players to overcome hardship and discomfort. Reinforced the notion among people who counted, that Billy was a crude, rude bumpkin and a "poor fit" for TCU.

 

[My Buddy Steve]

The prevailing belief was that Billy was drunk in the early morning crash. The story was that he fell asleep on a late night run to pick up game film.

Damn. Well everybody is talking about this arms race and money needed to be spent, but I know that this period is when TCU really raked it in in donations. So what happened there?

 

[Zebra Frog]

I don't think Fred Taylor would have had success at all. One of the problems was that, due to the pushing by Amon G. Carter himself, of allowing Texas Tech into the SWC, the fertile recruiting areas of West Texas were no longer TCU's.

 

[Frogs Reign]

Paint it Purple - I do believe that Pittman had issues with many black players as it related to concerns over facial hair and the longer / Afro-styled hair that many were wearing in the early 70's. If I remember correctly, Pittman had some extremely strict rules against facial hair and hair styles that alienated many of the black players and thereby ran them off. Pittman was definitely old school. But, he was a really good football coach.

I still believe that the future of the TCU football program through the 70's and 80's had already been established by lack of insight by TCU leadership and the Athletic Department to maintain a competitive program by investing in facilities.

 

[Frogs Reign]

I don't think Fred Taylor would have had success at all. One of the problems was that, due to the pushing by Amon G. Carter himself, of allowing Texas Tech into the SWC, the fertile recruiting areas of West Texas were no longer TCU's.

+1 - Another reason for our downfall. Our inability to respond to the increased competition for recruits.

Plenty of blame to go around with TCU's leadership at the time.

 

[Endless Purple]

I wasn't around TCU football then, but this is an interesting read. One can never know how the future would have changed had something been done differently, but it is nice to know what was going on at the time. Thanks Paint It Purple for asking on this topic.

 

[Frog DJ]

I can't speak to the fate of TCU's football program - with or without Fred Taylor, but I can testify he was highly respected by his players and peers, and he was always generous with his time and attention for a struggling young KTCU broadcaster who asked for interviews.

Go Frogs!