1. The KillerFrogs

Failed Trump Coup

Discussion in 'The Pit' started by Froglaw, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. Sure it’s an important issue to you. But in the end you argue your position, support the candidates that agree and vote in the next election, with the chance to reverse anything you strongly disagree with. The reality is that over time there are going to be about equal time a Democrat is President and a Republican is present. Since 1960 there will have been 32 years with each at the end of this term. Since 1940 the same # right now; will be Dems 44-40 at the end. Since 1980 will be 24-20 R at the end of the term. Since 2000 will be 12-12 at the end of this term. (Now you’ve got me lost in trivia!). Point being that no matter how much we want it not to be so the Presidency is likely to be be split half the time between the two parties (and Congress the same). There will be ebbs and flows but nothing is likely to change that. I think we need less “infinity war” and more “odd couple” in our politics.
     
  2. Well, if that’s your goal, then vote for candidates who aren’t promising to throw large groups of people in jail or cause them to lose their jobs. People wouldn’t be as upset if the incoming administration wasn’t promising to make major changes that will have very negative impacts on their lives.
     
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  3. I’m going to vote for who I think the best candidate is all things considered. As everyone should. Then we tally the votes and the person that wins will do what they do. And we move on one way or the other knowing that we are in a country we can freely discuss and argue the issues and vote in the next election. Have to get away from the “this is the end” notion. It just isn’t.

    And yes, I should listen to my own advice sometimes!
     
  4. For you it isn’t. For some people it will be. Biden’s policies will cause real world harm to some people. Now, you may agree with the policies and not care about the people that are harmed,but don’t act like they don’t have a right to be upset about it.
     
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  5. The same is true of anyone’s policies. The all have real world impact to some people. And the people negatively impacted should be upset about them. We should debate those issues and describe the ways people are negatively impacted. But at the end of the day we have to realize that about half the time the person who is at odds with our positions will be elected President and that is OK.
     
  6. They may be empty, angry threats at this point. But consider the totality of these things that are being openly advocated for by Democrats: (1) End the Electoral College; (2) Make DC and Puerto Rico States; (3) Expand the Supreme Court; (4) Amnesty for illegal immigrants (with a path to citizenship).

    Yes, this would end our country as we've known it. We would have one party rule at the national level for generations.
     
  7. I do not think any of those would result in one party rule at all. I bet it would still be 50-50 in the future. Maybe the location of the 50 yard line would shift a bit (like what has happened with R gerrymandering), but there would be a new equilibrium.
     
  8. “Stop complaining about losing, it’s not the end of the world “

    [​IMG]
     
  9. You missed the key words -- in totality.

    But I'll play along. To move the 50 yard line in order to get 10 million plus Democrat voters to switch to being Republicans would require a massive switch to leftist policy by the Republican party. Which would mean that the politics of this country would be fundamentally changed forever.

    You're talking about moving the 50 yard line to the 20. But that's what this is all about, as you just admitted...
     
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  10. Yeah how far it would move would be up to debate. But I don't think it would move more than a few yards. We are all more similar than different on the larger political scale.
     
  11. The electoral college is the very instrument that guarantees that broad representation. Without it, only the policies that work for NYC, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Boston, Miami, etc. will be implemented. The people in flyover states will be grossly disenfranchised.
     
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  12. I’m sure once the left is able to ban all wrong think outlets like news organizations and podcasts—as they’ve been talking about doing this past week—we’ll finally have unity.
     
  13. Tangent, but I don't think that is true at all (or at least mostly not true). EC votes are mostly based on population. The base 2 EV for each state does give some advantage to smaller states, but that is way offset by the 1 EV for each population based Congressional district. Turns out, the EC advantage shifts between D and R advantage periodically and fairly evenly over time- it was a D advantage as recently as 2012. The current R EC advantage has to do with the higher number of "wasted" votes in the popular vote in "blue' states than in "red" states relative to the EC. The current EC advantage can mostly be traced to Texas, actually. Instead of a huge R advantage in the popular vote in that state like in the past, it is now closer, so fewer "wasted" votes. A few years ago the "Wasted" votes in a place like Cali was offset by the "wasted" votes in Texas. But where the wasted votes are is going to change over time and the EC isn't intrinsically always going to give small states more say. Really, if anything it just gives the battleground states more say which can be any size or geography.
     
  14. I applaud your lack of cynicism towards what is going on. The very fact that Dems are even mentioning abolishing the EC, adding DC and Puerto Rico as states, expanding the Supreme Court and opening the immigration pipeline only leads me to one rather cynical conclusion.
     

  15. How exactly would any of these things have a direct negative impact in your life?
     
  16. You think a One Party ruling class is going to be good for people?
     
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  17. No I want at least 3 major parties.
     
  18. Ok. Then you definitely don't want that combination of events I outlined previously.
     
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  19. California, Massachusetts, and New York accounted for over 8 million additional votes Biden received this last election. No one thought Trump had a chance in hell of winning either of those three states. If we abandon the electoral college none of the "swing states" will matter anymore. No one will ever campaign outside of the east and west coast.
     
  20. FWIW, the only thing on that list I support is getting rid of the EC. I just think it would make for "cleaner" elections. Plus I like the idea that my vote counts the same as anyone else's.
     

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