Does TCU require vaccinations?

[Hoosierfrog]

On this, you are incorrect. None of the vaccines are fully tested or approved. They are being distributed through an emergency use declaration, which bypasses the normal testing and bureaucratic barriers. I would encourage you to look into this further for yourself.

As for the emergency use declaration, for this to come in to effect, there must be no viable alternatives for treatment. Remember the hostility towards the various potential preventative treatments? Hmmm...

From what I have read there is a difference between experimental and emergency approval. Experimental would seem to indicate that the use of the vaccine is the testing. There has been testing done prior to the roll out. As I understand it emergency approval was just a shorter version. I admit I am no expert, but for all the bitching and moaning about masks, lower attendance and other irritations caused by Covid you’d think people would want to do what they can to bring this to a close, but I’m not telling anyone to shut up and get vaccinated.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

No one should put pressure on an individual person to get vaccinated if they don't want to, but as a society, we want as many vaccinated as possible. This gets us through the pandemic faster (get to herd immunity faster), and protects those at risk who haven't gotten the vaccine. More vaccinated means less severe disease and less deaths and quicker back to normal.

 

[Zubaz]

Who is the con artist I'm blindly accepting?

Whoever told you that VAERS claims 11,000 people have died due to receiving the COVID vaccine.

Why do you think VAERS does not show that? It does.

No, it does not. First of all, OpenVAERS main page lists that number, but if you click on it you can see it lists ALL alleged vaccine deaths.


So unless you think some kid in 1989 died of both the MMR vaccine AND the COVID19 vaccine, dig a little deeper next time.

If you filter it down using their website, you see 6,741 deaths.

At absolute worst, VAERS claims about 6,700 deaths (as of last week) died at some point after receiving the vaccine. You shifted the claim to a causal relationship when VAERS makes no such claim. In fact, they specifically reject that claim on their actual website: "The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines."

So even if you accept VAERS data is valid, itself not something that is advisable, you have not established a causal relationship that you are claiming.

And sure, the data is not verified, but as you somewhat pointed out, neither are the "620,000 covid deaths."

This is also wrong. There have been several studies confirming the causal relationship with the official figure, as does studies in US excess death figures.

"More importantly, the undeniable and objective fact is that across every single age group the risk is significantly less than the risk COVID presents." This statement patently false.

It certainly is not. Here are US COVID deaths broken down by age as of a few weeks ago.

The only numbers here that are under your 11,000 death claim (again, a number almost twice the unverified claim) are the under 40's. So unless you are suggesting some combination of 320+ U-17's, 2,500+ 18-29 year olds, and/or 7,000+ 30-39 year olds have died from the COVID vaccine, the objective data shows that COVID presents a larger risk than the vaccine does.

 

[jake102]

If you're vaccinated, why do you care if I am?

This is the question that people refuse to answer. Because the answer is a contradiction.

 

[jake102]

This is also wrong. There have been several studies confirming the causal relationship with the official figure, as does studies in US excess death figures.



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I totally agree with you on the VAERS stuff.

I'd be curious on the studies that confirm COVID deaths. I know multiple COVID doctors/nurses who classify everything as COVID as long as they get one positive COVID test.

The COVID death data does point to a fairly obvious conclusion that pushing vaccines to anyone 17 and under is insanity. Although the UK already figured that out.

 

[Endless Purple]

From what I have read there is a difference between experimental and emergency approval. Experimental would seem to indicate that the use of the vaccine is the testing. There has been testing done prior to the roll out. As I understand it emergency approval was just a shorter version. I admit I am no expert, but for all the bitching and moaning about masks, lower attendance and other irritations caused by Covid you’d think people would want to do what they can to bring this to a close, but I’m not telling anyone to shut up and get vaccinated.

Bringing this to a close has different meanings. One end wants the virus to go the way of small pox and everyone mask, distance, vaccinate, etc until that point is achieved. The other side of bringing this to a close is just moving on and get life back to "normal" with no masks, no distancing, no lower capacities or shut downs and treat this like the annual flu.

 

[Endless Purple]

No one should put pressure on an individual person to get vaccinated if they don't want to, but as a society, we want as many vaccinated as possible. This gets us through the pandemic faster (get to herd immunity faster), and protects those at risk who haven't gotten the vaccine. More vaccinated means less severe disease and less deaths and quicker back to normal.

Like the bring this to a close, the idea of society has different meanings.

One end wants to do it their own way and no one tells them what to do. Just like any good five year old. The other end is this is that we should all do what is good for everyone and we need to do it the way "I" say since my opinion is best for everyone.

Extremist on all topics make for a fun way to deal with issues.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

Here is the CDC risk assessment for 12-17 years old to give some perspective (slide 32):

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/05-COVID-Wallace-508.pdf

For every million second-dose vaccinations in boys ages 12-17, it would prevent 5,700 COVID-19 cases, 215 hospitalizations, 71 intensive care admissions and two deaths, and cause 56-69 cases of heart inflammation. For girls those ages, it would prevent 8,500 cases of the virus, 183 hospitalizations, 38 intensive care admissions and one death, and cause 8-10 cases of heart inflammation.

Additional benefits (slide 35)
Prevention of MIS-C
Prevention of prolonged symptoms
Protection against variants


If you look at the risk assessment it's an easy call to vaccinate all 12+.

 

[Michael Milton's Jaw]

We must’ve have had to have 4 or 5 vaccinations jus to start elementary school in the 50s. Just don’t get the all resistance. Can’t imagine what some of the geniuses here would have said about Jonas Salk…

Irony so great, I cannot resist.

Salk was widely criticized by Sabin. Sabin had been at the polio vaccine for 10 years when the upstart Salk showed up with a crazy idea that worked. Sabin then said the Salk vaccine would become less effective over time.

 

[jake102]

Here is the CDC risk assessment for 12-17 years old to give some perspective (slide 32):

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/05-COVID-Wallace-508.pdf

For every million second-dose vaccinations in boys ages 12-17, it would prevent 5,700 COVID-19 cases, 215 hospitalizations, 71 intensive care admissions and two deaths, and cause 56-69 cases of heart inflammation. For girls those ages, it would prevent 8,500 cases of the virus, 183 hospitalizations, 38 intensive care admissions and one death, and cause 8-10 cases of heart inflammation.

Additional benefits (slide 35)
Prevention of MIS-C
Prevention of prolonged symptoms
Protection against variants


If you look at the risk assessment it's an easy call to vaccinate all 12+.

Those are immaterial numbers. 100 intensive care admissions and three deaths? Probably be three deaths of 12-17 year olds on Texas lakes this weekend. Nonsense numbers, not even rounding errors.

 

[Wexahu]

I totally agree with you on the VAERS stuff.

I'd be curious on the studies that confirm COVID deaths. I know multiple COVID doctors/nurses who classify everything as COVID as long as they get one positive COVID test.

The COVID death data does point to a fairly obvious conclusion that pushing vaccines to anyone 17 and under is insanity. Although the UK already figured that out.

Yeah, raw numbers in terms of death toll are not very meaningful to me. in many, many instances we are treating 18-year olds like 78-year olds. Insanity.

 

[Eight]

Here is the CDC risk assessment for 12-17 years old to give some perspective (slide 32):

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/05-COVID-Wallace-508.pdf

For every million second-dose vaccinations in boys ages 12-17, it would prevent 5,700 COVID-19 cases, 215 hospitalizations, 71 intensive care admissions and two deaths, and cause 56-69 cases of heart inflammation. For girls those ages, it would prevent 8,500 cases of the virus, 183 hospitalizations, 38 intensive care admissions and one death, and cause 8-10 cases of heart inflammation.

Additional benefits (slide 35)
Prevention of MIS-C
Prevention of prolonged symptoms
Protection against variants


If you look at the risk assessment it's an easy call to vaccinate all 12+.

so what does the cdc know or believe that the uk doesn't?

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

Those are immaterial numbers. 100 intensive care admissions and three deaths? Probably be three deaths of 12-17 year olds on Texas lakes this weekend. Nonsense numbers, not even rounding errors.

Agree very low risk in both groups. But shows how safe the vaccine is and that even with low numbers the risks and complications of Covid are way higher than the vaccine.

 

[Wexahu]

Here is the CDC risk assessment for 12-17 years old to give some perspective (slide 32):

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/05-COVID-Wallace-508.pdf

For every million second-dose vaccinations in boys ages 12-17, it would prevent 5,700 COVID-19 cases, 215 hospitalizations, 71 intensive care admissions and two deaths, and cause 56-69 cases of heart inflammation. For girls those ages, it would prevent 8,500 cases of the virus, 183 hospitalizations, 38 intensive care admissions and one death, and cause 8-10 cases of heart inflammation.

Additional benefits (slide 35)
Prevention of MIS-C
Prevention of prolonged symptoms
Protection against variants


If you look at the risk assessment it's an easy call to vaccinate all 12+.

Risk assessment is not your thing. Those are basically completely meaningless numbers.

And again, no differentiation between a healthy kid and a kid with health issues. It might be a different conversation if you're talking about a morbidly obese 15-year old with diabetes, but there is ZERO reason a healthy teenager needs to get the vaccine. None.

 

[jake102]

Agree very low risk in both groups. But shows how safe the vaccine is and that even with low numbers the risks and complications of Covid are way higher than the vaccine.

The risks on either side are immaterial, better off not doing anything and avoiding long-tail risk. The UK figured this out.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

so what does the cdc know or believe that the uk doesn't?

The UK is being more conservative with their recommendation, similar to how we are being conservative with authorizing the vaccine for under 12. As pointed out on here a lot is that the risk of covid and complication rate is low in that age group, so they are allowing more time to get more data before approval. Still, the risk assessment is clearly in favor of vaccinating. I vaccinated my 14 year old as soon as he was eligible and would do so again in a second, especially with the latest increase in cases.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

Risk assessment is not your thing. Those are basically completely meaningless numbers.

And again, no differentiation between a healthy kid and a kid with health issues. It might be a different conversation if you're talking about a morbidly obese 15-year old with diabetes, but there is ZERO reason a healthy teenager needs to get the vaccine. None.

It's not my risk assessment it is the CDC's. The AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) also recommends the vaccine for that age group.

 

[Wexahu]

The UK is being more conservative with their recommendation, similar to how we are being conservative with authorizing the vaccine for under 12. As pointed out on here a lot is that the risk of covid and complication rate is low in that age group, so they are allowing more time to get more data before approval. Still, the risk assessment is clearly in favor of vaccinating. I vaccinated my 14 year old as soon as he was eligible and would do so again in a second, especially with the latest increase in cases.

No, it isn't. That's just nonsense.

Cases among teenagers are irrelevant. I'm not sure I know a teenager who hasn't had COVID. According to their parents, none of them even felt sick for a day.

I'm not the least bit surprised you vaccinated your kid. It didn't do him or anyone else any good, but congratulations.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

The risks on either side are immaterial, better off not doing anything and avoiding long-tail risk. The UK figured this out.

I get your point, but I am concerned about "the long tail" risk with Covid, tbh. We already know about MIS-C, long covid, etc. I'd rather avoid those with the vaccine in my teenagers. I totally get and respect others making a different determination, and waiting for full FDA approval is a totally reasonable approach.

 

[Wexahu]

It's not my risk assessment it is the CDC's. The AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) also recommends the vaccine for that age group.

Well, then risk assessment is not the CDC's or AAP's thing either.