Does anyone still think the air raid will get us a NC?

[puckster59]

I think offense was tailored to what we have. The defense was definitely an issue and 3-3-5 did get smashed as JJ predicted. I guess I'm confused about the Michigan now. Clearly it was an outlier.

Texas, too?

 

[hfhmilkman]

Texas, too?

The weakness of the 3-3-5 is runs to the edge, especially QB runs. The 3-3-5 also has a weakness to seam routes. Even Georgia struggled to run up the middle. Georgia's success other than the end was attacking the perimeter. KSU attacked the edge. Michigan and Texas did not. Generically, there is no formation that you can throw down and is the best for everything. All defenses have their strengths and weakness's. Since the NFL is running the ball more, we may see an evolution back to handling power. Football is like rock & roll and keeps going through cycles.

My personal take is if you have the talent, any formation be it offense or defense can succeed. The advantage of a program loaded with 5 stars is they may have a linebacker who is linebacker sized but safety speed, is that really a 4-3 or 3-4 but really a 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 at the same time?

So when we declare a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5, is that just because a program just can't find a 245 pound man with a 4.5 40 and corner agility? Remember that Brian Urlacher began as a safety.

 

[An-Cap Frog]

The weakness of the 3-3-5 is runs to the edge, especially QB runs. The 3-3-5 also has a weakness to seam routes. Even Georgia struggled to run up the middle. Georgia's success other than the end was attacking the perimeter. KSU attacked the edge. Michigan and Texas did not. Generically, there is no formation that you can throw down and is the best for everything. All defenses have their strengths and weakness's. Since the NFL is running the ball more, we may see an evolution back to handling power. Football is like rock & roll and keeps going through cycles.

My personal take is if you have the talent, any formation be it offense or defense can succeed. The advantage of a program loaded with 5 stars is they may have a linebacker who is linebacker sized but safety speed, is that really a 4-3 or 3-4 but really a 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 at the same time?

So when we declare a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5, is that just because a program just can't find a 245 pound man with a 4.5 40 and corner agility? Remember that Brian Urlacher began as a safety.

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[frogfan72]

Or maybe Georgia was the outlier....one of them was, but the reason we lost had as much or more to do with defense as we never stopped them. Not being a football expert it looked like we lost the game on the Line (trenches), both sides.

Georigia was the outlier. We were gassed and beat up after Michigan. It's like the 49ers effect this year. Yes, we managed to beat Michigan, but probably needed another week to physically recover, if not more.

 

[frogfan72]

The weakness of the 3-3-5 is runs to the edge, especially QB runs. The 3-3-5 also has a weakness to seam routes. Even Georgia struggled to run up the middle. Georgia's success other than the end was attacking the perimeter. KSU attacked the edge. Michigan and Texas did not. Generically, there is no formation that you can throw down and is the best for everything. All defenses have their strengths and weakness's. Since the NFL is running the ball more, we may see an evolution back to handling power. Football is like rock & roll and keeps going through cycles.

My personal take is if you have the talent, any formation be it offense or defense can succeed. The advantage of a program loaded with 5 stars is they may have a linebacker who is linebacker sized but safety speed, is that really a 4-3 or 3-4 but really a 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 at the same time?

So when we declare a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5, is that just because a program just can't find a 245 pound man with a 4.5 40 and corner agility? Remember that Brian Urlacher began as a safety.

I'm not a defensive expert. But, there has to be some way to seal the edge in a 3-3-5. I feel like that was our biggest weakness, especially against Michigan and Georgia. The times we would actually get some pressure on the QB, they'd take off out of the pocket and toward the sidelines. Meanwhile, you brought your 4th linebacker to get pressure, and your other 7 defenders are 15 yards downfield. So JJ and Bennett both converted plays with their legs that, with contain, would have been sacks and huge losses. Regardless of the base scheme, contain hurt us time and time again this year. I feel like that's a coaching issue and not a talent issue, but could be a combo platter.

 

[Vlade Davis]

We did not run an Air Raid this season. Actually, no one runs it anymore now that Leach has passed. We run some Air Raid concepts, as do the majority of CFB teams.

The 2022 team is no more Air Raid than the 2014 team. It's no more Air Raid than 2019 LSU. It's actually less Air Raid than 2022 Tennessee, who was pretty close to being a Playoff team in the mighty SEC.

The key... Elite QB play. We need to accept that Max was Tebow Lite. An exceptional college QB who could put a team on his back and win games, but he is not an elite QB. He is an elite CFB player who played QB. He missed so many open throws this season and it all came to a head in the first half against Georgia. If he hits 3-4 of those terrible misses in the first half, it changes the game. I'm not saying we would've won, but we wouldn't be sitting here questioning the merits of Air Raid concepts.

 

[hfhmilkman]

I'm not a defensive expert. But, there has to be some way to seal the edge in a 3-3-5. I feel like that was our biggest weakness, especially against Michigan and Georgia. The times we would actually get some pressure on the QB, they'd take off out of the pocket and toward the sidelines. Meanwhile, you brought your 4th linebacker to get pressure, and your other 7 defenders are 15 yards downfield. So JJ and Bennett both converted plays with their legs that, with contain, would have been sacks and huge losses. Regardless of the base scheme, contain hurt us time and time again this year. I feel like that's a coaching issue and not a talent issue, but could be a combo platter.

That is just the schematic weakness of the 3-3-5. Rich Rod said the same thing when he was at Michigan. That is the "chess" of football. The NFL fixes this by being able to go multiple. Football reduces down to a "Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock" battle. Often it comes down to a couple matchups that can be exploited again and again. There will be something to exploit via formation and there will be something to exploit via personal. Watch the NE verses Atlanta SB. Tom Brady played a two man game with the slot and the RB. Atlanta had no recourse as the flaw was due to the scheme they had prepared for the SB plus the personal they had to run it. Run a standard 4-3 and something else will open up.

 

[Eight]

I get we don’t pass every down, but are you guys saying we run the same offense as Bama and Georgia?

bama has actually gone less and less from a run heavy offense and clemson damn sure wasn't running a pro style offense with watson and lawrence

as far as the defense why is it so hard to grasp gillespie pulled off a smoke and mirrors magic act fitting gary's defensive leftovers, a group of transfers and a 17-year old into a defense that played 15 games this year

when you consider the 2nd d-line rotation in the title game included transfers from uconn, sfa, and a guy headed for the uga scout team in front of a navy transfer what we saw from the defensive staff might be one of the best coaching jobs we have seen for years on that side of the ball

 

[frogfan72]

That is just the schematic weakness of the 3-3-5. Rich Rod said the same thing when he was at Michigan. That is the "chess" of football. The NFL fixes this by being able to go multiple. Football reduces down to a "Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock" battle. Often it comes down to a couple matchups that can be exploited again and again. There will be something to exploit via formation and there will be something to exploit via personal. Watch the NE verses Atlanta SB. Tom Brady played a two man game with the slot and the RB. Atlanta had no recourse as the flaw was due to the scheme they had prepared for the SB plus the personal they had to run it. Run a standard 4-3 and something else will open up.

So - and again, not an expert here - a 3-3-5 seems like a system designed to stop the run and limit the pass. Is the strategy here to limit the passing game with down-field coverage, assuming that even with good pressure guys up front, B12 offenses get the ball out so quickly that a pressure the QB strategy is pointless? In other words, any sacks we get in a 3-3-5 should largely be classified as coverage sacks?

I'm not a GP homer by any means. But, wouldn't a 4-2-5 base be better suited as a happy medium that could take on B12 offenses, as well as more pro style?

 

[Eight]

So - and again, not an expert here - a 3-3-5 seems like a system designed to stop the run and limit the pass. Is the strategy here to limit the passing game with down-field coverage, assuming that even with good pressure guys up front, B12 offenses get the ball out so quickly that a pressure the QB strategy is pointless? In other words, any sacks we get in a 3-3-5 should largely be classified as coverage sacks?

I'm not a GP homer by any means. But, wouldn't a 4-2-5 base be better suited as a happy medium that could take on B12 offenses, as well as more pro style?

please ignore him as he is basing his responses off what he reads on the internet and michigan's response w rich rod which of course is applicable to every other version of the 3-3-5

a defense that as we have been told is easy to run against numerous times and yet the greatest offensive line and most feared power run game in college football experienced negative plays on 40% of their called runs

 

[hfhmilkman]

please ignore him as he is basing his responses off what he reads on the internet and michigan's response w rich rod which of course is applicable to every other version of the 3-3-5

a defense that as we have been told is easy to run against numerous times and yet the greatest offensive line and most feared power run game in college football experienced negative plays on 40% of their called runs

If you want to troll. Troll away. TCU beat UM, end of story. I never said its easy to run on a 3-3-5. I said the vulnerability is the edge. The reason why the edge is vulnerable is the agenda of a 3-3-5 is the front 3 are trying to consume all of the blockers and the LBers crash the gaps. There is a classic picture from the TCU<>Texas game of every lineman being doubled teamed and a linebacker crashing every gap. The reason why the edge is vulnerable is because the assets have been directed to the middle. Georgia's best runs were to the edge. Example the Bowers jet sweep was typical. Because the LB'ers are crashing so hard, the seam behind is open because the LBers will always out of position because they are thinking run. This also allows a team to pass and not have to go up against TCU's excellent corners.

What about a 4-2-5? That is what a former Big12 coordinator brought in to save the defense did at Ohio State. A 4-2-5 is less suited to defeat the power run. At least OSU's was. The front four is more defuse and not enough LB'ers to cover all of the gaps. In order to get the same bang, OSU had to send more, at least one more safety. I would argue if an offense refuses to or is unable to attack the edge, a 3-3-5 is a better defense. OSU has a long term problem if Knowles wants to stick to his philosophy because I don't think the 4-2-5 is the right scheme. I thought he was going to have a surprise by introducing a third LB'er. But Day blinked because he gave up on the run too soon. Michigan's best run defender was out. But Day can't help himself and kept on passing.

Remove the labels of schools. This is the difference between the 3-3-5 verses the 4-2-5 when it comes to running. Obviously there is a different philosophy when you have 3 down linemen verses 4 and where a blitz comes from. Both the 3-3-5 and the 4-2-5 are great for defending pass offenses. I think both are perfectly viable and should be run based on the personal. If I think I have a great NT who cannot be moved, I am inclined to go 3-3-5. If I think I have some good organic pass rushers at DE, I think I would rather go 4-2-5. The great coaches will look at what they have a mold the defense to the players strengths.

 

[Prince of Purpoole II]

If you want to troll. Troll away. TCU beat UM, end of story. I never said its easy to run on a 3-3-5. I said the vulnerability is the edge. The reason why the edge is vulnerable is the agenda of a 3-3-5 is the front 3 are trying to consume all of the blockers and the LBers crash the gaps. There is a classic picture from the TCU<>Texas game of every lineman being doubled teamed and a linebacker crashing every gap. The reason why the edge is vulnerable is because the assets have been directed to the middle. Georgia's best runs were to the edge. Example the Bowers jet sweep was typical. Because the LB'ers are crashing so hard, the seam behind is open because the LBers will always out of position because they are thinking run. This also allows a team to pass and not have to go up against TCU's excellent corners.

What about a 4-2-5? That is what a former Big12 coordinator brought in to save the defense did at Ohio State. A 4-2-5 is less suited to defeat the power run. At least OSU's was. The front four is more defuse and not enough LB'ers to cover all of the gaps. In order to get the same bang, OSU had to send more, at least one more safety. I would argue if an offense refuses to or is unable to attack the edge, a 3-3-5 is a better defense. OSU has a long term problem if Knowles wants to stick to his philosophy because I don't think the 4-2-5 is the right scheme. I thought he was going to have a surprise by introducing a third LB'er. But Day blinked because he gave up on the run too soon. Michigan's best run defender was out. But Day can't help himself and kept on passing.

Remove the labels of schools. This is the difference between the 3-3-5 verses the 4-2-5 when it comes to running. Obviously there is a different philosophy when you have 3 down linemen verses 4 and where a blitz comes from. Both the 3-3-5 and the 4-2-5 are great for defending pass offenses. I think both are perfectly viable and should be run based on the personal. If I think I have a great NT who cannot be moved, I am inclined to go 3-3-5. If I think I have some good organic pass rushers at DE, I think I would rather go 4-2-5. The great coaches will look at what they have a mold the defense to the players strengths.

You may rather go 4-2-5 but if you do you’ll have to fire the current DC at TCU. That’s what it comes down to. So I don’t think that will be happening here any time soon.

If this is all just theoretical football, it’s boring. It has no application here.

And it’s basketball season.

 

[Eight]

interesting, when i present you w actual facts from the actual game i get paragraphs of regurgitated tripe and am called a troll

blue bevo irony at its finest

now go ahead a tolstoy worthy response w corresponding vin diagrams

 

[Pharm Frog]

I have always believed the BXII could compete with the SEC till yesterday. I think the air raid is great if you wanna win a BXII championship, but it stands no chance against a pro style play action offense like a Georgia or Bama. I hope Dykes makes adjustments in our offense going forward so we emulate tOSU, Georgia and Bama. Lastly I’m not sold on the 3-3-5 stopping a top tier offense either. Hope the coaches really make some changes if we are serious about winning it all.

Don’t like Air Raid. Don’t like Stack 3. Would seem you’re rooting for a team you have no chance of liking.

 

[abell2do]

Good grief. The entire philosophy behind the Air Raid is to give teams with less physical size and talent a chance to compete with those who have more. Leach and Mumme said that from the start. It's about having an offense designed to leverage the strengths of your particular personnel.

If we had the personnel of Georgia, Bama and Ohio State, then we wouldn't need to run it -- or really, we would need to run "less" of it, because elements of the Air Raid are in nearly every playbook in the country today.

Additionally, it was pretty obvious to me this year that this wasn't a pure Leach/Mumme Air Raid. Because we had greater skill, size and athleticism than any of their teams ever had, Sonny and Garrett moved this offense more towards what would be considered a "pro-style" offense in today's world.

If you can't see that the NFL (as well as Bama/Georgia/Ohio State) have adopted many facets of the Air Raid, then I don't know what to say.

Great post

 

[abell2do]

Don’t like Air Raid. Don’t like Stack 3. Would seem you’re rooting for a team you have no chance of liking.

I’m not an expert just a fan. All I wanted was opinions regarding how this team changes to win it all. Seems like recruiting is the answer. Defensive scheme is another issue IMO.

 

[Mean Purple]

What I saw this year wasn’t the Air Raid as far as I can tell.

Dykes said in an interview before the Natty that it has its basis in the air raid. But he also told Riley he wants a solid run game for balance. Our run game has been more reliable. In the end, it won a Fiesta Bowl against the undefeated Big 10 champ. I'm sure it will evolve more after he reviews the season and based on what players he'll have. Our player came in bigger and more physical this year. With a second off season to get used to the system and a second round of Kaz building them up, this team should be able to grow and run a pretty balanced scheme on offense.

 

[Mean Purple]

What did we run in 1935 and 1938?

spanish flu.


Too soon?

 

[Mean Purple]

If you want to troll. Troll away. TCU beat UM, end of story. I never said its easy to run on a 3-3-5. I said the vulnerability is the edge. The reason why the edge is vulnerable is the agenda of a 3-3-5 is the front 3 are trying to consume all of the blockers and the LBers crash the gaps. There is a classic picture from the TCU<>Texas game of every lineman being doubled teamed and a linebacker crashing every gap. The reason why the edge is vulnerable is because the assets have been directed to the middle. Georgia's best runs were to the edge. Example the Bowers jet sweep was typical. Because the LB'ers are crashing so hard, the seam behind is open because the LBers will always out of position because they are thinking run. This also allows a team to pass and not have to go up against TCU's excellent corners.

What about a 4-2-5? That is what a former Big12 coordinator brought in to save the defense did at Ohio State. A 4-2-5 is less suited to defeat the power run. At least OSU's was. The front four is more defuse and not enough LB'ers to cover all of the gaps. In order to get the same bang, OSU had to send more, at least one more safety. I would argue if an offense refuses to or is unable to attack the edge, a 3-3-5 is a better defense. OSU has a long term problem if Knowles wants to stick to his philosophy because I don't think the 4-2-5 is the right scheme. I thought he was going to have a surprise by introducing a third LB'er. But Day blinked because he gave up on the run too soon. Michigan's best run defender was out. But Day can't help himself and kept on passing.

Remove the labels of schools. This is the difference between the 3-3-5 verses the 4-2-5 when it comes to running. Obviously there is a different philosophy when you have 3 down linemen verses 4 and where a blitz comes from. Both the 3-3-5 and the 4-2-5 are great for defending pass offenses. I think both are perfectly viable and should be run based on the personal. If I think I have a great NT who cannot be moved, I am inclined to go 3-3-5. If I think I have some good organic pass rushers at DE, I think I would rather go 4-2-5. The great coaches will look at what they have a mold the defense to the players strengths.

The whole 3-3-5 deal is to keep everything to the first and second level. But you have to adjust a bunch to defend again 1st down. Teams like UGA know to play for 1st down. (We have done the same a lot this year due to run game).

To run that defense, you must bring a guy down more (disguised 4-2-5 or even 4-3-4 ) Just have to hope we develop/recruit the hybrids needed. Part of that is Kaz's job.

 

[hfhmilkman]

interesting, when i present you w actual facts from the actual game i get paragraphs of regurgitated tripe and am called a troll

blue bevo irony at its finest

now go ahead a tolstoy worthy response w corresponding vin diagrams

We all learn from reading So yes, I admit to the crime of reading instead in keeping myself amused with Tiktok. I will start burning my library since I have been informed, there is nothing gained from reading. Just fyi, most of my recent knowledge of 3-3-5 is from Soup Campbell's implementation at Iowa State. When there was a possibility of Harbaugh being fired, Campbell was one of the names popping up. Rich Rod never truly implemented an effective 3-3-5 because he kept bringing in 4-3 Coordinators who did not know it, not that it would have mattered.