Do we need to increase enrollment

[Horned Frog Country]

For a variety of reasons, I really think it is TCU's best interest to grow.

One of the things that frustrated me some as a student was that there was not always a wide enough variety of classes in a department. I can think of some classes I wish TCU would have offered but were not offered. There were a couple of cases where a class was a requirement for a getting a degree but it was offered very infrequently. I think those issues would not exist or would not be as bad if TCU were bigger.

Demographically speaking, Fort Worth and the state of Texas are experiencing tremendous growth. I really think that it is imperative that TCU grows so that TCU does not become irrelevant or has less control of its area. The fact that a person in the state house whose district includes TCU worked for Baylor's best interest and against TCU's best interest is very telling and very scary. As far as I can tell, nobody in the state government spoke up for TCU in this latest round of realignment. As long as TCU has a small constituency (especially in Fort Worth) we run the risk of being politically irrelevant.

I remember a while back when the baseball stadium was being planned out. Trust me, there was significant opposition from the neighbors in TCU building it. In fact, I remember going to a city council meeting over the subject and a majority of the people speaking were against the stadium. If those neighbors had gotten what they wanted, we would not be in the college world series. Heck, we would not even have a baseball program had they gotten what they wanted. We were darn lucky to get what we wanted at that city council meeting.

TCU has faced and will continue to face zoning as well as other political issues. The smaller TCU gets relative to the area the more risk TCU has of not getting its way on important stuff as well as the city ever getting behind TCU when it really matters.

 

[joejordan]

QUOTE(Planks @ Jun 17 2010, 01:18 PM) [snapback]582435[/snapback]
Yeah, but Notre Dame has every Catholic in the nation rooting for them

TCU has every Disciple of Christ in the nation rooting for them...

No and no

 

[Planks]

QUOTE(crunch @ Jun 17 2010, 11:50 PM) [snapback]582905[/snapback]
No and no



It was a joke.

 

[Planks]

For anyone whose wondering, TCU has housing problems as it is. When the economic downturn hit, TCU admissions responded by accepting more students for the 2013 class than they usually would have (they were expecting more students to choose not to attend TCU because they could no longer afford it). However, TCU overestimated the effect the downturn would have, and about 200 more students chose to attend TCU than was expected. The 2013 class is about 1,800 students, whereas the other classes are about 1,600 students. While 200 extra students may not seem like a lot, it caused a massive fiasco in housing. In order to accomidate the extra students, TCU was forced to take measures like putting freshmen in the GrandMarc, converting dorm lounges into rooms, and putting three people in dorm rooms that were only intended for two. The housing problems have carried over into this year. The first floor of Brachman is now going to be Sophmore housing for some very unhappy students.

The point is, as far as housing goes, TCU is already filled to the brim. Before we could do any enrollment increases, more residence halls would have to be built, and then it would become another issure as far as where to build the new residence halls.

 

[haroldskilley]

How about this idea....

BYU for example has Utah Valley University about 3 miles away. UVU started off as a community college, then a state college, and just last year obtained University status. UVU now is approaching a student body of 30K students. UVU has no football team, and many of the students attending there are BYU fans, and chose UVU as an alternative, for a variety of reasons.

I know if BYU was short on fans, they could simply allow UVU students to use their student ID and attend the games, same as BYU students. If BYU wanted to, they could even make the UVU students buy a season pass for the games (regular BYU student rate would apply to UVU students).

I only offer this as an example that maybe TCU could do, without increasing student enrollment. Are there any other smaller schools near TCU, (e.g., a community college, state college, private college etc) that would be a good candidate for a student body to also attend TCU games? These students would be craving a fun "game time" environment, and would likely become TCU fans, even though they don't attend there.

Utah struggled just a few years ago getting fans too..... to solve this, they gave tickets away for a while, to help build their fanbase.

 

[Pinkyfrog]

TCC would be my guess, it's something like 3 or 4 campuses (I attended the south campus before I went to TCU) it's basically the locals of Fort Worth and surrounding areas. Really good proffessors too. I kind of like this idea.


QUOTE(#1 Stunner @ Jun 18 2010, 12:46 AM) [snapback]582914[/snapback]
How about this idea....

BYU for example has Utah Valley University about 3 miles away. UVU started off as a community college, then a state college, and just last year obtained University status. UVU now is approaching a student body of 30K students. UVU has no football team, and many of the students attending there are BYU fans, and chose UVU as an alternative, for a variety of reasons.

I know if BYU was short on fans, they could simply allow UVU students to use their student ID and attend the games, same as BYU students. If BYU wanted to, they could even make the UVU students buy a season pass for the games (regular BYU student rate would apply to UVU students).

I only offer this as an example that maybe TCU could do, without increasing student enrollment. Are there any other smaller schools near TCU, (e.g., a community college, state college, private college etc) that would be a good candidate for a student body to also attend TCU games? These students would be craving a fun "game time" environment, and would likely become TCU fans, even though they don't attend there.

Utah struggled just a few years ago getting fans too..... to solve this, they gave tickets away for a while, to help build their fanbase.

 

[haroldskilley]

QUOTE(Pinkyfrog @ Jun 18 2010, 01:20 AM) [snapback]582915[/snapback]
TCC would be my guess, it's something like 3 or 4 campuses (I attended the south campus before I went to TCU) it's basically the locals of Fort Worth and surrounding areas. Really good proffessors too. I kind of like this idea.


How many students are at TCC? Also, curious, how many empty seats are at a typical TCU football game?

 

[halfwaytoheaven]

QUOTE(Planks @ Jun 18 2010, 12:37 AM) [snapback]582910[/snapback]
For anyone whose wondering, TCU has housing problems as it is. When the economic downturn hit, TCU admissions responded by accepting more students for the 2013 class than they usually would have (they were expecting more students to choose not to attend TCU because they could no longer afford it). However, TCU overestimated the effect the downturn would have, and about 200 more students chose to attend TCU than was expected. The 2013 class is about 1,800 students, whereas the other classes are about 1,600 students. While 200 extra students may not seem like a lot, it caused a massive fiasco in housing. In order to accomidate the extra students, TCU was forced to take measures like putting freshmen in the GrandMarc, converting dorm lounges into rooms, and putting three people in dorm rooms that were only intended for two. The housing problems have carried over into this year. The first floor of Brachman is now going to be Sophmore housing for some very unhappy students.

The point is, as far as housing goes, TCU is already filled to the brim. Before we could do any enrollment increases, more residence halls would have to be built, and then it would become another issure as far as where to build the new residence halls.


Once the Milton renovation is completed, that's at least 200 beds. Of course at that point they'll be starting on Colby. And then Moncrief. And then the Worth Hills dorms. And after that TB/PW might need some work. Christ, it never ends.

 

[Horned Frog Country]

QUOTE(Planks @ Jun 18 2010, 12:37 AM) [snapback]582910[/snapback]
For anyone whose wondering, TCU has housing problems as it is. When the economic downturn hit, TCU admissions responded by accepting more students for the 2013 class than they usually would have (they were expecting more students to choose not to attend TCU because they could no longer afford it). However, TCU overestimated the effect the downturn would have, and about 200 more students chose to attend TCU than was expected. The 2013 class is about 1,800 students, whereas the other classes are about 1,600 students. While 200 extra students may not seem like a lot, it caused a massive fiasco in housing. In order to accomidate the extra students, TCU was forced to take measures like putting freshmen in the GrandMarc, converting dorm lounges into rooms, and putting three people in dorm rooms that were only intended for two. The housing problems have carried over into this year. The first floor of Brachman is now going to be Sophmore housing for some very unhappy students.

The point is, as far as housing goes, TCU is already filled to the brim. Before we could do any enrollment increases, more residence halls would have to be built, and then it would become another issure as far as where to build the new residence halls.


One solution might be to change the requirements of living in a dorm and allow more students to live off campus. One way to do it might be to reward high achievers. As a reward, give students with 30 or more hours the option of living off campus in a nearby apartment complex if they achieved a real high GPA such as 3.75 or higher.

As far as where to put new residence halls, we need to consider knocking down older smaller dorms and replace them with much bigger dorms.

 

[janorman]

QUOTE(StealthFrog @ Jun 17 2010, 05:28 PM) [snapback]582770[/snapback]
Thanks for contributing to the dumb thread. If you think its all about geography then you are mistaken. Do you really think we would be an attractive candidate if we were located in any other major market that has huge state schools? Do you think we would be an attractive candidate if we were located in Peoria, KS? The answer to both is no.

If TCU had more alumni/more fans in the DFW market, don't you think we able have some control of the tv market. Why is Tech more attractive than TCU?


Oh man - you just made my point, it's not difficult to understand. We are an institution that is trapped in a geographically unfriendly locale - to our east we are dominated by the SEC and in our own state the Big 12 saturates the market. Even with an increased amount of people we don't offer the Big 12 anything it needs and the SEC - MAYBE with increased eyes on TVs we could, but they are comfortable where they are.

But think about this for one second because your logic is flawed - if we were in Louisville, KY in 2005 where would be right now? Same if we were in Cincy, Ohio. Geography is the HUGE key to this equation. Outside of South FL the CUSA schools that got absorbed by the Big East were geographically in areas that were for the most part close to them. It's not like Cincy is carrying the cincy market on a weekend OSU is playing, or USF in a weekend that the UF or FSU or even Miami is kicking off.

Your question about Tech shows a lack of understanding about history - Tech benefited from strong arming in the legislature as much as Baylor. Tech's connections got it in - not its enrollment. If enrollment was all this was about UofH would have secured a bid to the Big 12 long ago instead of Baylor. Increased size does not a better school make.

I love our school's smaller undergraduate enrollment. I'm all for increasing grad programs but undergrad needs to stay the same or an organic minimal increase that is mirrored with added facilities and top faculty.

 

[StealthFrog]

QUOTE(LawFrog05 @ Jun 18 2010, 06:51 PM) [snapback]583312[/snapback]
But think about this for one second because your logic is flawed - if we were in Louisville, KY in 2005 where would be right now? Same if we were in Cincy, Ohio. Geography is the HUGE key to this equation. Outside of South FL the CUSA schools that got absorbed by the Big East were geographically in areas that were for the most part close to them. It's not like Cincy is carrying the cincy market on a weekend OSU is playing, or USF in a weekend that the UF or FSU or even Miami is kicking off.

the premise of this thread wasn't to increase the "undergrad" enrollement only

I don't think you can assume we would have been picked up by the Big East if we were located in those cities. Instead of playing the hypothetical location game, the reality is that the geography is what it is and nothing can be done to change it. I am just trying to assess the problems that are apparent and have been brought to our attention and the possible solutions. If increasing the size of the school would help improve TV numbers and attendace then that is something that can be changed if the school so chooses to (graduate programs).

Realistically, TCU's size or geogrpahy will never change, so we can pretty much dictate where the future of TCU athletics will reside . I realize the size has increased a little over the past few years, but not to a level that is making a difference.

 

[icemonkee]

I can't believe we have an active thread up right now for increasing enrollment for athletics purposes...utterly ridiculous

 

[StealthFrog]

QUOTE(icemonkee @ Jun 18 2010, 07:35 PM) [snapback]583333[/snapback]
I can't believe we have an active thread up right now for increasing enrollment for athletics purposes...utterly ridiculous

perhaps you shouldn't visit an athletics message board where topics about athletics are discussed and topics that impact athletics are discussed. Better yet, perhaps you shouldn't participate in threads that you think are utterly ridiculous. What else do you have to contribute?

 

[froginaustin]

QUOTE(Horned Frog Country @ Jun 17 2010, 08:38 PM) [snapback]582842[/snapback]
For a variety of reasons, I really think it is TCU's best interest to grow.

One of the things that frustrated me some as a student was that there was not always a wide enough variety of classes in a department. I can think of some classes I wish TCU would have offered but were not offered. There were a couple of cases where a class was a requirement for a getting a degree but it was offered very infrequently. I think those issues would not exist or would not be as bad if TCU were bigger.
. . .

This problem wouldn't exist if the faculty were more numerous and diverse, whether the size of the student body increases or not.

 

[icemonkee]

QUOTE(StealthFrog @ Jun 18 2010, 02:43 PM) [snapback]583336[/snapback]
perhaps you shouldn't visit an athletics message board where topics about athletics are discussed and topics that impact athletics are discussed. Better yet, perhaps you shouldn't participate in threads that you think are utterly ridiculous. What else do you have to contribute?


Yes, because the University would so readily increase enrollment for athletic purposes.

^look at that . . . my contribution

 

[Deep Purple]

TCU is not growing its enrollment. Each freshman class is limited to around 1,500-1,600, with overall enrollment limited to around 9,000 for the past 4 years. TCU is traditionally a residential campus, not a commuter campus. Therefore, it does not want more students living off campus; it wants more students living on campus. The target number is two-thirds of students being residential. This is why TCU is building/renovating residence halls like mad.

TCU is not growing the enrollment because it wants to maintain or improve its low student-to-faculty ratio (it boosts our academic rating). Growing the enrollment is not merely a matter of admitting more students. You have to add more faculty to teach them. You have to add classrooms to teach in. You have to add more residence halls for students to live in. Admit more students without doing all that, and you undo all the academic and residential progress TCU has made over the last decade.

TCU wasn't the only institution that balked at the price TWU wanted for Wesleyan Law School. University of North Texas and Texas Tech walked away from it for the same reason. And no, TCU wasn't "days away" from the purchase. Because of the competing interests among TCU, University of North Texas, and Tech, TWU's asking price was way too high from the very start -- $60 million as I recall. For that much money, any of the interested universities could have started their own law school and probably had a higher-rated one to boot. Wesleyan was either too greedy or not really that interested in selling, which is why they overpriced it.

TCU is already a research institution, though not a major research institution. The most comprehensive classification of colleges and universities in the US is the Carnegie system. It classifies institutions based on size, curriculum, degrees awarded, and other factors. TCU's classification is "Doctoral/Research." TCU's forte is undergrad education, but it does offer the master's in about 43 areas and the doctorate in about 15 areas.

 

[Horned Frog Country]

QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 18 2010, 04:37 PM) [snapback]583457[/snapback]
This problem wouldn't exist if the faculty were more numerous and diverse, whether the size of the student body increases or not.



That is true and could happen. However, I think part of what is offered is based on demand for a class. A larger enrollment would likely increase demand for classes that might otherwise not be offered.

 

[weklfrog]

QUOTE(StealthFrog @ Jun 18 2010, 12:43 PM) [snapback]583336[/snapback]
perhaps you shouldn't visit an athletics message board where topics about athletics are discussed and topics that impact athletics are discussed. Better yet, perhaps you shouldn't participate in threads that you think are utterly ridiculous. What else do you have to contribute?

decisions to increase enrollment have nothing to do with athletics, so when someone visits an athletics message board, they expect to read and discuss athletics, not stupid ideas like pipedreams to increase enrollment to affect what athletic conference we might be able to get into. and that is my contribution, to continue to point out, as many others already have, how stupid the premise is.

 

[Planks]

QUOTE(Deep Purple @ Jun 18 2010, 10:54 PM) [snapback]583614[/snapback]
TCU is not growing its enrollment. Each freshman class is limited to around 1,500-1,600, with overall enrollment limited to around 9,000 for the past 4 years. TCU is traditionally a residential campus, not a commuter campus. Therefore, it does not want more students living off campus; it wants more students living on campus. The target number is two-thirds of students being residential. This is why TCU is building/renovating residence halls like mad.




It does always seem like it's really competitive to get into the Tom-Brown-Pete-Wright apartments. I'd imagine there are upperclassman students that are forced off campus because they can't get the housing they want.

 

[perryfrog]

Yes, TCU should increase emrollment.

GO FROGS!!!!