• The KillerFrogs

D-Day - thoughts, stories?

Paint It Purple

Active Member
Anybody else on here think Monty was a doofus? And don't get me started on the French.
Patton, whose ego obviously matched Montgomery's, called Monty a "timid little fart." Montgomery's tactics in North Africa were credited by Eisenhower with turning the War, but his decisions in the Ardenne (op market garden) were a disaster. He was a meticulous, over-thinking-everything twit for sure, but mostly an asset to Eisenhower. I always figured that he resented the Americans being in charge on his soil and what he considered his war to fight. Not altogether surprising for a commanding general.
 

HG73

Active Member
Patton, whose ego obviously matched Montgomery's, called Monty a "timid little fart." Montgomery's tactics in North Africa were credited by Eisenhower with turning the War, but his decisions in the Ardenne (op market garden) were a disaster. He was a meticulous, over-thinking-everything twit for sure, but mostly an asset to Eisenhower. I always figured that he resented the Americans being in charge on his soil and what he considered his war to fight. Not altogether surprising for a commanding general.
He was also pompous azz who did everything he could to make Ike's life miserable like demanding to be put in charge of all ground forces in Europe. If Ike had let him have that we'd still be fighting in France. He botched Antwerp and Market Garden. He never fought until he had an overwhelming logistical advantage.

Rant over.
 

WhoDatFrog

Active Member
I toured Normandy 10 or so years ago. What struck me was the length of the beaches with basically no cover at low tide. Talk about a killing field. Pointe du Hoc was unimaginable scaling that with the Germans right on top.

You don't fully appreciate until seeing it.

Interesting article about Point du Hoc linked and the historical "controversy" about its importance as an objective in the invasion. (contains a reference to an Aggy that I'm sure some of you might find interesting)

I'm biased (see screen name), but I can't recommend enough the National WWII museum here in N.O.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...e-been-unnecessary/ar-AACi2Lq?ocid=spartandhp
 

Eight

Member
Interesting article about Point du Hoc linked and the historical "controversy" about its importance as an objective in the invasion. (contains a reference to an Aggy that I'm sure some of you might find interesting)

I'm biased (see screen name), but I can't recommend enough the National WWII museum here in N.O.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...e-been-unnecessary/ar-AACi2Lq?ocid=spartandhp

correct me if i have this wrong, but the orders were still to first capture point du hoc and then move to the other installation?
 

WhoDatFrog

Active Member
correct me if i have this wrong, but the orders were still to first capture point du hoc and then move to the other installation?
That's the way I read it as well. This was the first I had ever heard of Battery Maisy and its importance.
To your point, Point du Hoc had to be taken first. And based on the casualty figures it was obviously well defended and a difficult task. The article just highlights history's account of Point du Hoc as the main focus when more recent findings indicate the German gun placements had been moved from their prior to D-Day.
I merely shared the article because I hadn't heard of Battery Maisy until yesterday.
 

ShadowFrog

Moderators
Interesting article about Point du Hoc linked and the historical "controversy" about its importance as an objective in the invasion. (contains a reference to an Aggy that I'm sure some of you might find interesting)

I'm biased (see screen name), but I can't recommend enough the National WWII museum here in N.O.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...e-been-unnecessary/ar-AACi2Lq?ocid=spartandhp

Who dat or no who dat I 110% concur on the national World War II museum (I think formerly called the d-day museum) an absolute Must see for any American spending a week or weekend in NO for any reason other than a court date. You will not be disappointed.
 

PurpleBlood87

Active Member
He was also pompous azz who did everything he could to make Ike's life miserable like demanding to be put in charge of all ground forces in Europe. If Ike had let him have that we'd still be fighting in France. He botched Antwerp and Market Garden. He never fought until he had an overwhelming logistical advantage.

Rant over.

Also thanks to British code breakers Monty was reading a majority of Rommel's messages and the Royal Navy was keep the DAK fron getting needed supplies and troops.
 

HG73

Active Member
Interesting article about Point du Hoc linked and the historical "controversy" about its importance as an objective in the invasion. (contains a reference to an Aggy that I'm sure some of you might find interesting)

I'm biased (see screen name), but I can't recommend enough the National WWII museum here in N.O.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...e-been-unnecessary/ar-AACi2Lq?ocid=spartandhp
Aggies gonna Aggy. So Bud disobeys orders and attacks where the guns aren't? Then parlayed that into the job as head aggy? Wonder if that's going on the stadium wall?
 

AroundWorldFrog

Full Member
Anybody else on here think Monty was a doofus? And don't get me started on the French.
Everytime I have watched the Bridge Over the River Kwai, Alec Guinness portrayed the British guy exactly as I pictured Monty. An arrogant, know-it-all idiot that would never admit being wrong no matter how many men it got killed.
 

Eight

Member
That's the way I read it as well. This was the first I had ever heard of Battery Maisy and its importance.
To your point, Point du Hoc had to be taken first. And based on the casualty figures it was obviously well defended and a difficult task. The article just highlights history's account of Point du Hoc as the main focus when more recent findings indicate the German gun placements had been moved from their prior to D-Day.
I merely shared the article because I hadn't heard of Battery Maisy until yesterday.

i hadn't heard of battery maisy, but i remember from reading about the invasion in books as a kid the placements were emplty when the rangers got to them and that the guns were found inland in a grove of trees.

watching longest day they had a scene where they got to the placements, found them empty, and if i recall correctly one of the actors has a line about the assault all being for nothing.

goodness knows this wasn't the only command mistake made in the invasion, i find it hard to believe rudder had access to french intelligence on a boat crossing the channel that his superiors didn't in regards to the guns not being in the batteries, and from talking to friends who have served [ What the heck? ] orders and plans going wrong are pretty much the norm.

i don't really understand citino's comment about showing kid's the cliff's at du hoc? everyone i have talked to who has been to the memorial there talks about the idea of climbing up the face with defenders on top being something that is hard to imagine having the courage to try. don't recall anyone talking about the strategic importance as much as they awe they felt of someone being willing to make that climb under fire.
 

HG73

Active Member
Your plan goes out the window as soon as you make contact with the enemy anyway. But still, Rudder has been lionized for his role at Pointe du hoc, and it appears he screwed the pooch. Which prepared him well for his tenure at aggy.
 

Eight

Member
Your plan goes out the window as soon as you make contact with the enemy anyway. But still, Rudder has been lionized for his role at Pointe du hoc, and it appears he screwed the pooch. Which prepared him well for his tenure at aggy.

i agree that rudder may have been given credit that he didn't deserve, but i have always been hesitant to second guess battlefield decisions based upon pieces of information made without any lives at stake or anyone shooting at you.

if i recall correctly, rudder got to the base of the cliffs with roughly half the men and materials he started towards the beach. they suffered losses on the way up and taking control of du hoc and the germans did launch multiple counterattacks over the next few days to try to take back the location.

easy to say he should have pushed on to battery maisy and had he taken the battery lives would have been saved, but what happens if by separating his forces and trying to hold du hoc and take maisy the germans reclaim du hoc?
 
Last edited:

Leap Frog

Full Member
D-Day's "forgotten woman"-- her name is Virginia Hall, and the story is told in a book by Sonia Purnell.
She was from a family of Baltimore socialites, but with other goals such as helping in the war effort.
So, she talked her way into a British spy organization and became the first Allied woman behind enemy lines.
By her bravery and sheer force of will, Virginia organized spy networks all across France ( the French Resistance).
The book is titled " A Woman of no Importance:The Untold Story of the American Spy Who Helped Win WW11".
One compelling read, and you will be amazed at the bravery of this lady who survived and died in 1982.
 

Billy Clyde

Active Member
D-day gets all the press but there was one whale of a battle going on in the Pacific around this time too.

I had a classmate in an undergrad psychology class who was a survivor of the Bataan Death March. In terms of atrocities, I can't imagine what could ever match it- Japanese soldiers cutting off American's fingers to take their rings, denying men water just to watch them die, men who passed out on their feet on the side of the road intentionally run over by every vehicle in the convoy, trucks passing by with Japanese soldiers leaning out, randomly slashing throats. . . 40 years later the man still couldn't approach it without breaking down. I think that's probably why he took the class, hoping to find some relief.
 

MTfrog5

Active Member
I had a classmate in an undergrad psychology class who was a survivor of the Bataan Death March. In terms of atrocities, I can't imagine what could ever match it- Japanese soldiers cutting off American's fingers to take their rings, denying men water just to watch them die, men who passed out on their feet on the side of the road intentionally run over by every vehicle in the convoy, trucks passing by with Japanese soldiers leaning out, randomly slashing throats. . . 40 years later the man still couldn't approach it without breaking down. I think that's probably why he took the class, hoping to find some relief.
And that’s why a lot of people from that time didnt really care about what the atomic bombs did.
 
Top