COVID-19 Threads
- Thread starter TxFrog1999
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Zubaz
Member
While I strongly disagree with pretty much all of this (especially me being a smart guy), that's not really the point. You'll notice that this conversation wasn't really about the COVID vaccine, since what sparked the conversation was a video that came out 5 years before the COVID vaccine was available. Once it was shown that the vaccine was not reducing the spread of COVID, the potential for third party damage wasn't really there anymore. I might disagree with you and think these "died suddenly" claims are pretty silly, but hey, free country.
Where I do get a little more prone to chime in is when someone posts a literal flat earther, whose other genius medical advice includes "don't take cancer treatments those make you sicker, fruit can cure you", "gravity is a toxin", and "you can shock viruses out of you", and citing him to justify the ridiculous "vaccines cause autism" claims that have been proven wrong over and over and over and over again since they were first promoted by that quack in the late 90's (with a dose of "they want to kill all white people" garbage thrown in for fun, of course). Those vaccines, in addition to claims of them being dangerous being predictably absolute bunk, absolutely do stop & slow transmission of those diseases, so when you encourage parents not to vaccinate their children from disease, not only are you needlessly putting those kids at risk, you're putting other kids and adults at risk too, which is a problem we've been seeing more and more over the last 15 years or so.
froginmn
Full Member
Certainly a fair point. We do need to keep in mind, however, that the herd immunity that comes from vaccination (or infection, in many cases) provides protection for the UNVACCINATED, not the vaccinated.
So the "other kids and adults" who are being put at risk are those who chose not to get vaccinated or grew up in a country/location where vaccination wasn't provided.
Zubaz
Member
Or people who for whatever reason are not able to get the vaccine, or whose immune system is not capable of dealing with those diseases even when vaccinated. That's where my heckles get a bit up. When some make-a-wish kid wants to go to Disneyworld (or, ya know, their elementary school), they shouldn't have to worry about catching measles from someone else whose granola mom wasn't that bright, if that makes sense.
froginmn
Full Member
It would be interesting to know how many people are immunocompromised to the point where live vaccines aren't safe. I think the total number of IC people is less than 3% but I also understand that many of those have/had cancer, or transplants, etc. so they likely weren't unable to get vaccinated as infants (developed the IC condition later). And other IC people aren't severely IC, so there's some much smaller percentage who can't get live vaccinations and it would be interesting to know that number.
Doesn't matter to those kids you mention and not trying to argue that point...
I never had chicken pox and there wasn't a vaccine until about 20 years ago; I didn't ever get that vax until my doc said (a year ago) that I should get the shingles vax and I told him I wasn't at risk. He tested me to confirm and I ended up getting the chicken pox vax instead. But I also lived for 50 years unvaxed without getting the disease so I'm not real sure of the odds despite lower vaccinated percentages.
TxFrog1999
The Man Behind The Curtain
The issue with the video is the blatant sentiment among "elites" that governments need to coerce their citizens to vaccinate period. That mentality drove the COVID vaccination mandates and is one of the more pervasive ideologies infesting the left/authoritative side of the political spectrum these days. I get that we want society to benefit from the eradication of deadly diseases, but too many people in power feel like it is their responsibility to force everyone to think and act in a way that those in power believe is right, instead of educating and respecting personal autonomy and liberty.
The actual importance of making sure everyone gets vaccinated compared to the narrative about the importance of everyone getting vaccinated is so out of whack it's hard to comprehend. Kind of sums up COVID. It was never near the huge deal it was made out to be. I'll firmly believe that till the day I die.
I think back at some of the asinine things we were doing, and honestly, I didn't think humans could be so stupid and/or lack such basic common sense.
I think back at some of the asinine things we were doing, and honestly, I didn't think humans could be so stupid and/or lack such basic common sense.
No one should be required to get a vaccine or any other medical intervention in an attempt to protect others especially if they take on any personal risk in doing so. Obviously with the Covid experimental "vaccines" there is enormous personal risk from the injection. If you want to take one of these deadly gene therapies then knock yourself out but I'm sure as hell not going to get jabbed because someone in a position of authority tells me to. My body my choice.
What is even more ridiculous is that the Covid "vaccines" actually actually enhance infection risk, viral mutations, and disease spread which is precisely the opposite of what these fascists are supposedly trying to accomplish with their jab mandates.
I get it, but I just wouldn't characterize the vaccines as "deadly". Worthless would be how I'd describe them. I got the Moderna vaccine sometime in summer of '21 because I needed to travel. I don't think I'm any more at risk to die or have complications, at least materially to where it makes any difference at all, but I also don't think me getting that shot benefitted me or anyone around me one tiny damn bit. It basically just spread the $120 that it cost to a few different groups.
I have no idea why anyone would get boosters knowing what we know now, especially anyone under the age of 60. But I saw a guy with mask last night sitting at a restaurant table, so stupidity seems to know no bounds.
I honestly and sincerely hope for your sake and for everyone else who has taken the jabs that you are right. However, between government reporting here and in Europe there are over 60,000 deaths reported from the COVID “vaccines“. According to our government (HHS) the VAERS data is underreported by a factor of between 10 and 100. That would translate to something like 150,000 to 1.5 million deaths in the US alone. I suspect it’s closer to the lower number but probably is in the hundreds of thousands.
Speaking anecdotally, I am relatively certain that the Pfizer jab either caused or played a major part in my brother’s death. I also know of two other people who were killed by the jabs. I don’t think there’s any doubt that there have been many thousands of deaths and zero benefit from the jabs.
KillerFrog InD KitchenSink
Active Member
At this point in the pandemic (now endemic) I don’t think anyone under 50ish years old and healthy (and had Covid) is taking excessive risk not staying up to date. I do think people staying up to date with boosters are making the right statistical choice- several peer reviewed studies have shown the bivalent booster to decrease hospitalizations and deaths at all ages. But the risk is very low as you get younger. I do think older people and people with chronic at risk diseases are taking on too much risk not keeping up to date and all the anti-vax porn is having real life negative consequences in those groups.
Still waiting on you to show us any overall mortality or morbidity benefit in the vaxed group versus unvaxed. Since even Pfizer’s own trial data didn’t show it I feel quite confident you won’t find it, and if you can’t find it then how can you justify recommending these experimental “vaccines” to anybody?
HFrog1999
Member
My Dad and Mother in Law were vaccinated in early 2021. They both have severe health issues. They’ve been completely fine the past 2 years with no Covid.
“Anti Vax porn” (a completely ridiculous term for you to use) hasn’t stopped them from getting the endless boosters. However witnessing their friends who’ve been boosted get serious reactions from the boosters have caused them to choose not to get them.
TCURiggs
Active Member
I get that the video may have sparked all/some of that, but my point still stands that you (and sink and others) were very pro mask/vax, and still seem to be, which seems crazier by the day. That’s all I’m saying. That side seems to be sillier by the day.
You really think that masks and COVID vaccines made a positive difference at this point?
Ironically the fact that your dad and mother-in-law are not particularly healthy may have worked in their favor in avoiding the severe side effects from the “vaccine“ that have plagued millions of others.
Since most of the ill effects are mediated by autoimmune mechanisms I suspect that those who don’t have the best immune systems probably fare better with the jabs than those who do, at least with the immune-mediated side effects.
It’s not science, it’s religion for these people. The data is clearly not on their side, and they are losing the battle which is heartening to see. Most reasonable people have wised up and are avoiding “vaccine” boosters and masks like the plague.
If you’ll notice, Covidian cultists never accept public debate on vaccine or mask policy. There is a really good reason for that because they know that they would get destroyed by anyone who has actual command of the data. Fauci, for example, has been challenged to debate publicly numerous times but always claims that he is too busy. However he still seems to have plenty of time to spout anti-science nonsense ad nauseum on CNN, MSNBC and other gullible left-wing echo chambers.
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Despite the claims by the CDC and other vaccine apologists that the myocarditis caused by the mRNA gene therapy "vaccines" is mild and short-lived 20% of "died suddenly" deaths are caused by vaccine-induced myocarditis:
link.springer.com
Thousands of "died suddenly" people never make it to the hospital and are very rarely autopsied so they are not included in the cherry-picked data that the CDC and others like to cite in their claims that myocarditis from the "vaccines" is usually mild. All cases of myocarditis cause permanent heart damage so any claim that myocarditis is not a big deal is delusional.
At least the vaccine apologists can still be comforted by the knowledge that the vax-caused sudden deaths would have been so much worse if they had not been vaccinated, lol.
Autopsy-based histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination - Clinical Research in Cardiology
Cases of myocarditis, diagnosed clinically by laboratory tests and imaging have been described in the context of mRNA-based anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Autopsy-based description of detailed histological features of vaccine-induced myocarditis is lacking. We describe the autopsy findings and...
Thousands of "died suddenly" people never make it to the hospital and are very rarely autopsied so they are not included in the cherry-picked data that the CDC and others like to cite in their claims that myocarditis from the "vaccines" is usually mild. All cases of myocarditis cause permanent heart damage so any claim that myocarditis is not a big deal is delusional.
At least the vaccine apologists can still be comforted by the knowledge that the vax-caused sudden deaths would have been so much worse if they had not been vaccinated, lol.
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KillerFrog InD KitchenSink
Active Member
The data is strong that vaccines were effective in the pandemic phase. Estimates are that millions of lives (and could have saved more if we could have gotten even higher levels of vaccination). In the endemic phase their benefit isn’t as stark, given the level of vaccine and natural immunity out there. In the still at risk for severe disease groups still a pretty clear benefit but probably not as critical as they were during the pandemic phase when so many immune naive people were out there. It will likely be a benefit more akin to the flu shot benefit.
