• The KillerFrogs

COVID-19 Threads

HFrog1999

Member
No I’m very interested, as you know. I’ve posted several articles on the subject. I just think your blame was misplaced.

edit: I mean that while “shaming” people to get vaccinated doesn’t help, I really don’t think it hurts. People choosing not get vaccinated may point to that shaming as a reason they aren’t going to get vaccinated, but those people probably aren’t going to get vaccinated anyway.


I think you’re making some very incorrect assumptions about people who haven’t gotten the vaccine yet. That’s probably due to the very negative propaganda that’s out there.


Just because someone hasn’t gotten the vaccine yet doesn’t mean they are refusing it or against getting it at all. Some people are just procrastinating. Some people want more information. Some people have friends and family who had bad reactions to the vaccine. Some people recovered from a mild case of Covid and don’t see a need for the vaccine

The Biden administration has taken on the responsibility of selling the vaccine, and as an experienced Sales and Marketing professional, I’m saying they’re doing a horrible job of reaching people who haven’t been vaccinated yet.
 
How to encourage people to get vaccinated:

1. Stop telling vaccinated people they can't change their behavior and need to mask up.
2. Stop censoring information about vaccine side effects
3. Have a vaccine that is fully approved by the FDA
Agree with 3. 2 doesn’t happen. There is no censoring. Could it be emphasized more? I suppose. But information isn’t being “censored”. 1. Depends on the local spread. Down in LA it certainly makes sense for everyone to mask up. Plus we found that when you tell vaccinated people they don’t have to mask, unvaccinated people also stopped masking.

The most effective ways at least from polling those who were on the fence but decided to get it are- encouragement from friends and family. Encouragement from personal doctor. Knowing people who have gotten the vaccine and had no issues and knowing that there may be something (air travel, jobs) that may be more difficult to do if not vaccinated. I would add that high local spread seems to be a big motivating factor. Vaccinations are way up in areas with high spread.
 
I think you’re making some very incorrect assumptions about people who haven’t gotten the vaccine yet. That’s probably due to the very negative propaganda that’s out there.


Just because someone hasn’t gotten the vaccine yet doesn’t mean they are refusing it or against getting it at all. Some people are just procrastinating. Some people want more information. Some people have friends and family who had bad reactions to the vaccine. Some people recovered from a mild case of Covid and don’t see a need for the vaccine

The Biden administration has taken on the responsibility of selling the vaccine, and as an experienced Sales and Marketing professional, I’m saying they’re doing a horrible job of reaching people who haven’t been vaccinated yet.
It’s a good debate and you make some good points/ critiques. I do think it can be a damned if you do damned if you don’t proposition trying to find the secret sauce to get more people vaccinated. There’s always going to be an alternate view/ strategy and with so many in the “never gonna get vaccinated” camp, every strategy is going to “fail”.
 

HFrog1999

Member


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Bob Sugar

Active Member
Uncle Joe has already made it abundantly clear that he thinks minorities are too stupid to get voter ID. How in the hell are they going to get a vaccine passport?
It's probably like 2-5% of minorities that don't have ID, maybe less. It is over 50% that are not vaccinated.

If this doesn't violate the EP clause of the constitution, I do not know what does.

Then you see that it is restaurants, bars, gyms, and entertainment venues...but not offices or shopping venues.

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froginmn

Full Member
And it's not just CNN saying so, that's Michael Osterholm, one of the preeminent epidemiologists in the country.

The thing that has been frustrating for me throughout this is that "experts" have been loathe to admit that they really don't understand this virus and that a lot of what has happened doesn't fit what they previously believed to be true - vaccinated people still get and spread it, the virus ebbs and flows without a real good explanation, and as Osterholm just said, cloth masks aren't really effective.

Instead we've bastardized "science" to be proving whatever I want it to prove. We see reduced reporting on infections of vaccinated versus unvaccinated (even though most among us know and admit that more data would be better), we see people now saying that vaccines weren't intended to keep people from getting and spreading COVID but to blunt its effects, etc. etc.

And when people claim to know something and are proven wrong, they pull back reporting to hide the fact that they were wrong, and distrust in government increases.

I think there's reasonable disagreement on whether healthy young people should be vaccinated at this time. I think there's mostly agreement that older people (and young people in poor health) should get vaccinated. So let's continue that effort, and focus on that while we try to figure out what's going on.

I personally am fine with the fact that young people wait to get vaccinated. If we'd all had time to discover that J&J was the least effective against Delta, we'd have likely avoided it and pursued another better option. And young people because of their overall good health did have the luxury of waiting.
 
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Eight

Member
And it's not just CNN saying so, that's Michael Osterholm, one of the preeminent epidemiologists in the country.

The thing that has been frustrating for me throughout this is that "experts" have been loathe to admit that they really don't understand this virus and that a lot of what has happened doesn't fit what they previously believed to be true - vaccinated people still get and spread it, the virus ebbs and flows without a real good explanation, and as Osterholm just said, cloth masks aren't really effective.

Instead we've bastardized "science" to be proving whatever I want it to prove. We see reduced reporting on infections of vaccinated versus unvaccinated (even though most among us know and admit that more data would be better), we see people now saying that vaccines weren't intended to keep people from getting and spreading COVID but to blunt its effects, etc. etc.

And when people claim to know something and are proven wrong, then pull back reporting to hide the fact that they were wrong, distrust in government increases.

I think there's reasonable disagreement on whether healthy young people should be vaccinated at this time. I think there's mostly agreement that older people and young people in poor health should get vaccinated. So let's continue that effort, and focus on that while we try to figure out what's going on.

I personally am fine with the fact that young people wait to get vaccinated. If we'd all had time to discover that J&J was the least effective against Delta, we'd have likely avoided it and pursued another better option. And young people because of their overall good health did have the luxury of waiting.

you make a number of very strong points, the biggest to me being that true scientific discussion and discovery has been shoved aside to fit the narrative of the moment regardless of who is in authority

true, open debate has always been part of the scientific process back before the days of curry and pasteur for very important reasons and when you stunt that part of the process you block true growth
 
you make a number of very strong points, the biggest to me being that true scientific discussion and discovery has been shoved aside to fit the narrative of the moment regardless of who is in authority

true, open debate has always been part of the scientific process back before the days of curry and pasteur for very important reasons and when you stunt that part of the process you block true growth

I think a real good point, although I do think the accelerated timetable and rapidly changing nature of a pandemic makes it harder to do the well controlled studies typical of traditional scientific discovery.
 

Eight

Member
I think a real good point, although I do think the accelerated timetable and rapidly changing nature of a pandemic makes it harder to do the well controlled studies typical of traditional scientific discovery.

who chose to accelerate the timetable?

the pandemic has illustrated the common problem of man thinking we are smarter and more control over nature than we truly are and the response to me around the world has been from entities unwilling to admit that maybe, just maybe this will get resolved in the time it takes and not the time we want

one area that i believe has hurt in the matter of debate is the disregard of results that are considered outliers because they are outside the "norms" of the expected results or a different way of thinking

can guarantee you that in a sales office if one person is getting a much more positive result from everyone else in the office the first thought is not that they are an outlier and not doing things in the established, accepted protocol. me personally, i want to know what the heck they are doing to get different results from me.

maybe it is something i can't replicate, maybe they are just on a run and that over time the large numbers will show their results are no different from mine, but i am not simply saying their way of doing things is wrong or their results an outlier

brings us back to the need to collect sufficient real data and regardless of all the advances in ai and analytics we continually see that those are still limited by the parameters they are written and real life data is needed which might take longer than we want, but isn't that one of the very first things we are taught as a kid. some times we have to wait
 

HFrog1999

Member
I think a real good point, although I do think the accelerated timetable and rapidly changing nature of a pandemic makes it harder to do the well controlled studies typical of traditional scientific discovery.


I think we’re finding out that China knew about this a lot longer than we realized. If it weren’t for their lies and cover up, a lot of lives could’ve been saved.
 

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