• The KillerFrogs

Colonial G.C. redesign plans

Limp Lizard

Full Member
I would love to see an explanation of some of the changes. Some look to me to make the holes easier (which I certainly am not in favor). But I would like to hear the why of the changes.
 

ShadowFrog

Moderators
Having read the descriptions of what is to be done, the first thing that leaps out at me is trees. If memory serves, the fellow who designed the course was most fond of trees, and did what he could to make them a part of the course.

It seems to me that removing trees goes strongly against the vision and philosophy of the original design.
Removing trees!?!
 

Paul in uhh

Active Member
I would love to see an explanation of some of the changes. Some look to me to make the holes easier (which I certainly am not in favor). But I would like to hear the why of the changes.
Reading between the lines on that hole by hole guide it seems Hanse was charged with making the course more similar to its past days as a US Open venue.. yet with modern length
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
I see it very differently. Is he removing trees? Yes, but at strategic locations necessary for the betterment of play and also aesthetically looking. A few trees being removed are dying. A large cluster is along the Trinity at #5 and also along the creek for the new #8 and current #9. They have no value from a golfers perspective and are junk. They should be gone and will be. Also read the fact that they are adding and planting trees too. #15 hillside is the first one I can recall. There are a couple more locations as well. The removal of the walls on #9,#18,#13,#16 are significant and will be interesting from the players perspective. The water will become even more accessible with the gradual slopes from the green to the water. I hope I live long enough to see it!
Well, you play there, and thus have a far better grasp of the locations and impact the plan will have. I have always looked at Colonial as an oddity on the PGA Tour, in that it isn't a zillion miles long and forces the player to make choices and take risks in ways other courses do not. I hope that the uniqueness and craftiness of the place remains intact.

The course on which I play is 9 holes of dusty, hard-packed dirt, broken up by squishy greens that defy any kind of consistent read. The neighboring goats sometimes get loose and have to be shooed off the fairways. Many of the players have stereos in their golf carts, so there's always people putting with theme music. The mower is broken and awaiting parts, but it hasn't rained in two months, so... But, it's home!
 

Putt4Purple

Active Member
Well, you play there, and thus have a far better grasp of the locations and impact the plan will have. I have always looked at Colonial as an oddity on the PGA Tour, in that it isn't a zillion miles long and forces the player to make choices and take risks in ways other courses do not. I hope that the uniqueness and craftiness of the place remains intact.

The course on which I play is 9 holes of dusty, hard-packed dirt, broken up by squishy greens that defy any kind of consistent read. The neighboring goats sometimes get loose and have to be shooed off the fairways. Many of the players have stereos in their golf carts, so there's always people putting with theme music. The mower is broken and awaiting parts, but it hasn't rained in two months, so... But, it's home!
I have played there but not regularly. Last time was 2 years ago. I do attend the Colonial Tournament almost every year and walk the course thoroughly each time I go. I am attentive to parts of the course that I would improve in my mind if I could. Hanse is in my opinion going to do a great job according to the plan. I feel he is going to clean it up and bring the course back to its original playing form without any needed visual man made construction. (Brick Walls).
As for the course you play, those are my goats and don't you dare harm them!
 

Brog

Full Member
Those detailed plans are interesting. Just one question. What is a "barranca concept"? He refers to it several times.
 

Putt4Purple

Active Member
Those detailed plans are interesting. Just one question. What is a "barranca concept"? He refers to it several times.
The dictionary definition of a "barranca" is "a deep gully or arroyo with steep sides." Basically, it's a deep hole that's hard to get out of, once you're in it. These are places you don't want your golf ball to be in.
 

JogginFrog

Active Member
Those detailed plans are interesting. Just one question. What is a "barranca concept"? He refers to it several times.
Barranca is a natural drainage channel that is usually dry. The restoration concept is to take areas that have been semi-filled in and grassed over--probably for erosion control and ease of maintenance--and return them to more of a ditch-like state with native vegetation. As @Putt4Purple said, places you don't want your ball to go. Barrancas are a key feature of a lot of the L.A.-area courses like Wilshire CC and LACC North. Part of the strategic value is that players may or may not have a shot out of a barranca.

The bunker removal appears in most cases to be combined with expanding green areas, with more pinnable locations near the edges. That should increase the difficulty for pros, who prefer a comfy lie in a greenside bunker to a closely mown runoff.

While architecture buffs like to remove trees to open up strategic options, I suspect some of the intent at Colonial is to increase airflow to the bentgrass greens--which really have no place in a climate like Fort Worth's, but are the reason for Colonial's existence.
 

Paul in uhh

Active Member
Those detailed plans are interesting. Just one question. What is a "barranca concept"? He refers to it several times.
Think of it like a bushy, rocky, wasteland that’s deep like a major drainage ditch. Aka lost ball but more interesting than just a creek or pond
 
Exciting stuff going on there. Big changes to the par 3s, especially number 8. It will be much shorter, but trickier, with the barranca coming into play on the left. Not sure what they are going after with removing several of the fairway bunkers and all of the greenside bunkers on #4 and #5, and all but one on #3. That's kind of the signature stretch. The devil will be in the shaping of the run-off areas in lieu of the greenside bunkers. #7 looks fantastic. I don't think the drawings do #9 justice. I'm betting that will look great, as will #13 and #16. The new heart/shamrock shaped greens on 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 16 will create some tucked pins at the back right/left and narrow spots at the front. It will be interesting to see the shaping of those new greens and if they add contours/ridges/bowls. Colonial's greens are relatively flat by tour standards, but I would expect that will change a little with these new greens. Distance control will be even more critical with these changes, it looks like. It has always been one of the biggest defenses, but these changes seem designed to amplify it.

As happens to most courses as they age, the greens rise up after decades of top-dressing. I suspect that's the primary motivator for lowering a few. Many of the greens have lost their shape -- they've rounded out over the years due to mowing. Looks like they've addressed that on most of them and then adjusted bunkers to fit. The shaping of many of the bunkers is certainly going to be a new look. Those, too, had become sort of generic in shape. They'll have some visual character to them now.

As for the tree removal, this is very modest in the grand scheme of things. It's about 3 trees per hole. Looks to be strategic, and mostly to allow for air flow at greens, which is needed for the bentgrass greens.
 

OmniscienceFrog

Full Member
I see it very differently. Is he removing trees? Yes, but at strategic locations necessary for the betterment of play and also aesthetically looking. A few trees being removed are dying. A large cluster is along the Trinity at #5 and also along the creek for the new #8 and current #9. They have no value from a golfers perspective and are junk. They should be gone and will be. Also read the fact that they are adding and planting trees too. #15 hillside is the first one I can recall. There are a couple more locations as well. The removal of the walls on #9,#18,#13,#16 are significant and will be interesting from the players perspective. The water will become even more accessible with the gradual slopes from the green to the water. I hope I live long enough to see it!
Don't care for the changes to the pond on 9, but love the change to the pond on 16. As far as the tournament goes anyway, the pond on 16 is useless. It may affect the country club hacker, but I'll bet a pro hasn't hit a ball in that pond in decades, if not longer!
 

OmniscienceFrog

Full Member
Well, you play there, and thus have a far better grasp of the locations and impact the plan will have. I have always looked at Colonial as an oddity on the PGA Tour, in that it isn't a zillion miles long and forces the player to make choices and take risks in ways other courses do not. I hope that the uniqueness and craftiness of the place remains intact.

The course on which I play is 9 holes of dusty, hard-packed dirt, broken up by squishy greens that defy any kind of consistent read. The neighboring goats sometimes get loose and have to be shooed off the fairways. Many of the players have stereos in their golf carts, so there's always people putting with theme music. The mower is broken and awaiting parts, but it hasn't rained in two months, so... But, it's home!
Oh, you're a member at Lorenzo Country Club?
 

OmniscienceFrog

Full Member
Exciting stuff going on there. Big changes to the par 3s, especially number 8. It will be much shorter, but trickier, with the barranca coming into play on the left. Not sure what they are going after with removing several of the fairway bunkers and all of the greenside bunkers on #4 and #5, and all but one on #3. That's kind of the signature stretch. The devil will be in the shaping of the run-off areas in lieu of the greenside bunkers. #7 looks fantastic. I don't think the drawings do #9 justice. I'm betting that will look great, as will #13 and #16. The new heart/shamrock shaped greens on 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 16 will create some tucked pins at the back right/left and narrow spots at the front. It will be interesting to see the shaping of those new greens and if they add contours/ridges/bowls. Colonial's greens are relatively flat by tour standards, but I would expect that will change a little with these new greens. Distance control will be even more critical with these changes, it looks like. It has always been one of the biggest defenses, but these changes seem designed to amplify it.

As happens to most courses as they age, the greens rise up after decades of top-dressing. I suspect that's the primary motivator for lowering a few. Many of the greens have lost their shape -- they've rounded out over the years due to mowing. Looks like they've addressed that on most of them and then adjusted bunkers to fit. The shaping of many of the bunkers is certainly going to be a new look. Those, too, had become sort of generic in shape. They'll have some visual character to them now.

As for the tree removal, this is very modest in the grand scheme of things. It's about 3 trees per hole. Looks to be strategic, and mostly to allow for air flow at greens, which is needed for the bentgrass greens.
I like the idea of replacing the big leaning tree overhanging the left side of the 18th fairway. That hole lost most of it's character when that thing went down.
 
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