College golf at Colonial today & tomorrow

[JogginFrog]

TCU men are on the course at Colonial, where 11 of the top 25 teams are getting a look at the renovations after a year at Shady. Might be as strong a lineup as you see in a regular-season event. Among the four unranked teams are (inexplicably) Georgia and Wake Forest, the alma maters of what seems like a third of the PGA Tour.

Also TCU, which traditionally overperforms on its home course. Their result in this tournament often goes a long way toward getting the Frogs into the postseason.

36 holes today; 18 tomorrow. Temps in 80s and negligible wind. Why not get out there and cheer on the Frogs?

 

[JogginFrog]

Scoring: https://results.golfstat.com/public/leaderboards/gsnav.cfm?pg=team&tid=29293

 

[FROGLEGHOP]

The Frogs have some work to do.......

 

[JogginFrog]

Cutting into the Frogs' "home course" advantage is that they are starting two freshmen and a first-year transfer, so guys who may not have seen the course that much. They've followed a disappointing first round with a disappointing start to round 2.

Two questions for those who see a lot of Colonial:

1. Where would you expect to see a "home course advantage" show up at Colonial? On the greens? Positioning off the tee? Avoiding big numbers? Familiarity with yardages? Not having to travel?
2. Any update on progress on the Frogs' new facility there?

 

[JetFlyingFrog]

The Frogs have some work to do.......

Ouch.

 

[Wexahu]

Cutting into the Frogs' "home course" advantage is that they are starting two freshmen and a first-year transfer, so guys who may not have seen the course that much. They've followed a disappointing first round with a disappointing start to round 2.

Two questions for those who see a lot of Colonial:

1. Where would you expect to see a "home course advantage" show up at Colonial? On the greens? Positioning off the tee? Avoiding big numbers? Familiarity with yardages? Not having to travel?
2. Any update on progress on the Frogs' new facility there?

My experience with golf is that home course can almost be a disadvantage. Adds an element of pressure because you're expected to do well, and sometimes knowing every nook and cranny of a golf course can be a detriment.

Honestly if you are paying attention to the green surrounds I think you only need to play a golf course 2-3 times to have the info you need to not be at a disadvantage. Some of my best rounds have been on courses where I've rarely played, because you're just out there hitting shots and not overthinking the course.

 

[JogginFrog]

My experience with golf is that home course can almost be a disadvantage. Adds an element of pressure because you're expected to do well, and sometimes knowing every nook and cranny of a golf course can be a detriment.

Honestly if you are paying attention to the green surrounds I think you only need to play a golf course 2-3 times to have the info you need to not be at a disadvantage. Some of my best rounds have been on courses where I've rarely played, because you're just out there hitting shots and not overthinking the course.

750 million rounds of data says differently. The article is poorly written, maybe because Arccos is hiding the key number, which is average strokes gained at home vs. away. But based on the data cited, that figure is at least .65 shots gained per home-course round, and probably closer to .80. Double that for head-to-head results at a tournament hosted at your home course.

Will it be less for collegians who all carry plus handicaps? Sure. But if the advantage is half of that of the typical amateur, that still adds up to more than 7 shots for a team counting four scores over 54 holes. That's not nothing, and it's certainly not a disadvantage.

 

[Wexahu]

750 million rounds of data says differently. The article is poorly written, maybe because Arccos is hiding the key number, which is average strokes gained at home vs. away. But based on the data cited, that figure is at least .65 shots gained per home-course round, and probably closer to .80. Double that for head-to-head results at a tournament hosted at your home course.

Will it be less for collegians who all carry plus handicaps? Sure. But if the advantage is half of that of the typical amateur, that still adds up to more than 7 shots for a team counting four scores over 54 holes. That's not nothing, and it's certainly not a disadvantage.

I think that's VERY flimsy data.

Competitive players who know how to break down a course after playing it a time or two is far different than some hack with zero course management skills who show up somewhere they've never played. There is a night and day difference there. And I didn't say you could play a course blind and pay a price, I said you can generally get the information you need to not be at a disadvantage after playing a course just a couple times (if you are paying attention) and whatever disadvantage you are at is offset by the added pressure of expectations.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

I think that's VERY flimsy data.

Competitive players who know how to break down a course after playing it a time or two is far different than some hack with zero course management skills who show up somewhere they've never played. There is a night and day difference there. And I didn't say you could play a course blind and pay a price, I said you can generally get the information you need to not be at a disadvantage after playing a course just a couple times (if you are paying attention) and whatever disadvantage you are at is offset by the added pressure of expectations.

Lol. Did you need 100 million rounds, instead?

There’s a big difference in showing up at an unknown course for casual play vs. a “post your score” gross event against top level competition.

It’s true that sometimes you have no fear of what you don’t know, but I’d say that on balance, knowing the course gives players at that level a slight advantage. It’s likely to show up on reading the greens more than anywhere.

 

[Wexahu]

Lol. Did you need 100 million rounds, instead?

There’s a big difference in showing up at an unknown course for casual play vs. a “post your score” gross event against top level competition.

It’s true that sometimes you have no fear of what you don’t know, but I’d say that on balance, knowing the course gives players at that level a slight advantage. It’s likely to show up on reading the greens more than anywhere.

I generally agree with you. Whatever advantage it is is very slight. A course like Colonial, it's not hard to figure out what clubs to hit off tees and what areas to avoid around the greens after a couple rounds (if you're paying attention), it basically comes down to executing shots at that point. I just think the disadvantage of the added expectations/pressure of playing well on your home course probably outweighs whatever advantage one has of "knowing the course better".

I mean, posting a bunch of stats from 10-15 handicappers who don't pay attention to stuff when they play and wouldn't know how to break down a course anyway is kind of useless information when comparing it to high-level competitive play.

 

[westoverhillbilly]

I generally agree with you. Whatever advantage it is is very slight. A course like Colonial, it's not hard to figure out what clubs to hit off tees and what areas to avoid around the greens after a couple rounds (if you're paying attention), it basically comes down to executing shots at that point. I just think the disadvantage of the added expectations/pressure of playing well on your home course probably outweighs whatever advantage one has of "knowing the course better".

I mean, posting a bunch of stats from 10-15 handicappers who don't pay attention to stuff when they play and wouldn't know how to break down a course anyway is kind of useless information when comparing it to high-level competitive play.

Compared to many courses these kids play, Colonial doesn’t have much elevation and allows newcomers to see better than hilly/mountainous links. But it’s by no means a cinch course either, especially on a windy day like today.

 

[Wexahu]

Compared to many courses these kids play, Colonial doesn’t have much elevation and allows newcomers to see better than hilly/mountainous links. But it’s by no means a cinch course either, especially on a windy day like today.

It’s by no means an easy course, in fact I’m sure it’s pretty damn hard for the college kids, but it’s a relatively straightforward layout. I just don't think it would take many rounds at all to figure out HOW to play it. Executing the shots is a different thing altogether, and wind always makes it a little more challenging.

 

[Zebra Frog]

He who putts the best, wins the most. Period.

 

[froginmn]

LOL Wex. Stop digging.

 

[JogginFrog]

He who putts the best, wins the most. Period.

You certainly have to be an elite putter to make it on Tour, but that statement is demonstrably untrue per https://datagolf.com/performance-table.

Top 10 shots-gained putting with 15 Tour starts in 2024:

1. Denny McCarthy (0 wins)
2. Taylor Montgomery (0)
3. MacKenzie Hughes (0)
4. Xander Schauffele (2)
5. Jason Day (0)
6. Alexander Bjork (0)
7. Aaron Baddeley (0)
8. Christian Bezuidenhout (0)
9. Billy Horschel (2)
10. Sam Burns (0)

Scottie Scheffler (8) was 84th in SG-Putting.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

You certainly have to be an elite putter to make it on Tour, but that statement is demonstrably untrue per https://datagolf.com/performance-table.

Top 10 shots-gained putting with 15 Tour starts in 2024:

1. Denny McCarthy (0 wins)
2. Taylor Montgomery (0)
3. MacKenzie Hughes (0)
4. Xander Schauffele (2)
5. Jason Day (0)
6. Alexander Bjork (0)
7. Aaron Baddeley (0)
8. Christian Bezuidenhout (0)
9. Billy Horschel (2)
10. Sam Burns (0)

Scottie Scheffler (8) was 84th in SG-Putting.

It’s amazing how Mark Broadie has basically debunked most of the conventional wisdom about scoring in golf. It’s hard for many of us who are older than about 40 to accept it. It just doesn’t make sense to us, but he’s right.

 

[westoverhillbilly]

He who putts the best, wins the most. Period.

As a teaching pro told me, 90% of the scoring in the game comes from 100 yards inwards. And the closer the player is to the hole, the more important it is.

However, now there are guys (and gals) doing some things that are turning conventional beliefs on their head.

 

[Wexahu]

It’s amazing how Mark Broadie has basically debunked most of the conventional wisdom about scoring in golf. It’s hard for many of us who are older than about 40 to accept it. It just doesn’t make sense to us, but he’s right.

Most people, if asked, would you rather A) make every putt under 15 feet or B) drive the ball 300 yards down the middle of the the fairway on every hole......would pick A. Because drive for show, putt for dough, right? It would be the wrong answer. Very wrong. Obviously, the worse you get as a golfer, the more wrong that answer would be.

Ball striking is king in golf. And to take it a step further, driving the ball is king. Drive for dough, putt for show.

 

[Wexahu]

As a teaching pro told me, 90% of the scoring in the game comes from 100 yards inwards. And the closer the player is to the hole, the more important it is.

However, now there are guys (and gals) doing some things that are turning conventional beliefs on their head.

Try it for yourself. Someday go out and give yourself every putt inside of 15 feet and see what you shoot. Then go out and drop the ball 300 yards in the middle of the fairway on every hole and see what you shoot. You might be surprised what the outcome is.

 

[Mean Purple]

750 million rounds of data says differently. The article is poorly written, maybe because Arccos is hiding the key number, which is average strokes gained at home vs. away. But based on the data cited, that figure is at least .65 shots gained per home-course round, and probably closer to .80. Double that for head-to-head results at a tournament hosted at your home course.

Will it be less for collegians who all carry plus handicaps? Sure. But if the advantage is half of that of the typical amateur, that still adds up to more than 7 shots for a team counting four scores over 54 holes. That's not nothing, and it's certainly not a disadvantage.

There is a reason younger players take club members to dinner and pre-week practice rounds at Augusta. For a college golfer or pro that is looking to throw darts, a home course advantage is pretty helpful. It is about knowing where to miss.