• The KillerFrogs

Brian Estridge's B12 expansion candidates

FWSTC Hfrog

Active Member
Why the rush to get OU/TX out before the end of the contract? Outside of a PAC invite for the '24 season, the longer it takes to pay off the FULL early exit fee, the better. 1) TCU collects the biggest TV payouts they will ever see again 2) The 8 keep them from having the full benefits of the SEC for as long as possible 3) We get to play them for the next 4 years. When they exit (outside of a possible bowl game match up) I probably will never see a TCU vs. Texas or TCU vs. OU football game again in my lifetime. That makes me really sad. Even though I would like to erase quite a few of those TX games + most others in the '70's
 
Why the rush to get OU/TX out before the end of the contract? Outside of a PAC invite for the '24 season, the longer it takes to pay off the FULL early exit fee, the better. 1) TCU collects the biggest TV payouts they will ever see again 2) The 8 keep them from having the full benefits of the SEC for as long as possible 3) We get to play them for the next 4 years. When they exit (outside of a possible bowl game match up) I probably will never see a TCU vs. Texas or TCU vs. OU football game again in my lifetime. That makes me really sad. Even though I would like to erase quite a few of those TX games + most others in the '70's

We also lose the Conference Championship Game (and it's money) if we drop below 10. We have no incentive to let them go early.
 

Mean Purple

Active Member
He said of his initial four of BYU, CSU, UCF and USF, he was told by a good source two of those were slam dunks, two not so much. He assumes BYU and UCF were the slam dunks.

He said he has heard some rumors, then offered up this scenario:

BYU, Air Force, Army and Navy.

Hal Jay then suggested those plus adding BYU and UCF. But then again Hal Jay also asked why not Houston and SMU.

Thoughts?
I'd take Cinci and Memphis over the two Florida schools.
 

Limey Frog

Full Member
I don't get the conflation of UCF and USF like they're interchangeable and you're as well to take both as either. UCF is a big school with a large and growing fanbase, and a sustained history of recent success on the field. USF is not those things.

Cincinnati, meanwhile, is the strongest football program outside the current P5, and is located in a great sports town and a talent-rich football state. They're a no-brainer. Add them to UCF and BYU and you've only got one seat left on the bus. I could live with Boise or Houston, and wouldn't despair entirely over CSU.

As for the Big XII becoming a bit more CUSA-ish, there isn't a whole lot we can do about that. We have Hobson's choice here. All we can do is invite the best programs available, then work collectively to all get better and put a good product on the field.

People like close games. I think they'll tune in to watch a conference of 12 solid middleweights more than some might think. These 12 programs can offer something no other big conference has: a league that any member* might actually win in any given year.

*Not Kansas, obviously.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
Neither USF or CSU has competed at a high level consistenyl/recently... But if you think CSU has more potential upside than USF to become a winner with a following, I have a bridge to sell you in Alaska.

This one? How much you asking?

GettyImages-535027033.jpg
 

Bob Sugar

Active Member
A key factor would seem to be… does ESPN, FOX, or any other potential TV provider value Army and Navy over the likes of Cincinnati, USF, Memphis, Houston or CSU?
There is a reason Army is buried on CBS Sports Network and not on CBS on Saturdays.
 
It’s going to be BYU, Cincy, UH, and UCF.
Those are the 4 strongest media powers available at this time. It just so happens that they are also quality in football and basketball.

If the BIG XII expands further, then Memphis, Boise St, and USF will get consideration.

Memphis and Boise St didn’t make the final consideration last time due academic short falls.

Unfortunately for the BIG XII, a near equivalent replacement for OU/T isn’t about to walk through the door. As you all know, (especially TCU) replacing UT’s recent on the field quality won’t be hard. It’s their historical brand that is the problem.

All we can hope for at this point is for a TCU, UCF, BYU, Okie St, Cincy and/or UH to make a good run and land in an expanded playoff in the early years. To re-establish an identity of the BIG XII football brand being a strong and consistent presence there without OU/T.
 

flyfishingfrog

Active Member
BE has long advocated CSU... I can tell you, with certainty, they won't make the cut if the Big 12 only goes to 10 or 12.

BYU and UCF are the slam dunks, that's obvious.

The service academies do not make sense. They literally are NOT TRYING TO COMPETE AT A HIGH LEVEL! What do people not understand about this? They play sports, but their mission is creating soldiers and leaders first and foremost. That is never going to change.

Just as one reference point, recruiting: The 247 team talent index has Navy, Army, and Air Force at 140, 150, and 200th respectively amongst the 230 schools they track nationwide. Regardless of their ability to use unique systems to improve on field performance and the ability to get some eyeballs on otherwise bad teams/games, they are not a fit for any serious football conference.

If the new Big 12 wants to be at all serious about playing football at a high level, you either need to literally be TRYING to do that, or have Kansas level basketball influence. None of the academies are even in the ballpark.
so everyone on here infers you have some level of inside knowledge - yet you continue to correlate football performance with attractiveness to conference expansion even though every tv exec involved in expansion and next generation contract discussions with the B12 and other conferences focus the vast majority of the conversation around footprint/eyeballs/buying power of the audience

competitiveness of the teams only matters to fans of those teams - even with programs like UCF, the first comment out of network reps mouth is about the size of their alumni base and their ratings in/outside of Florida - not about their on the field performance.

If a service academy has the viewership level that puts them on a tier above the top "performing" G5 programs - no one paying the bills cares if they are winning or not.

The fact is that even though everyone loves that academies - they are not bringing the level of eye balls that the networks want to see vs some of the larger G5s at this point.
 

Froggish

Active Member
He said of his initial four of BYU, CSU, UCF and USF, he was told by a good source two of those were slam dunks, two not so much. He assumes BYU and UCF were the slam dunks.

He said he has heard some rumors, then offered up this scenario:

BYU, Air Force, Army and Navy.

Hal Jay then suggested those plus adding BYU and UCF. But then again Hal Jay also asked why not Houston and SMU.

Thoughts?

Gross…Kiss the automatic qualifier P5 designation goodbye
 

Eight

Member
USF has to get their own stadium before consideration IMO. They play at the Tampa Bay Bucs stadium and bring like 10k people per game. It's like SMU level support at their games...

purple has assured us that usf playing in an nfl stadium will be an asset to the big 12.

you aren't suggesting purple is wrong or goodness, even trolling us with their post are you?
 

82 Frog Fever

Active Member
It might not receive an auto-bid, but in terms football ability on the field, it’s on par with the P12 right now.
Also, if this “Alliance” thing really works, the SEC may need a conference scheduling partner of their own. ……and after the B12 expansion cripples the AAC, the B12 is their obvious choice.

BYU, BOISE, UCF and CINCY

WEST

TCU
OSU
TTU
BU
BSU
BYU

EAST

UCF
WVU
CINCY
ISU
KSU
KU

Done. It’s not quite a power league but it’s light years better than anything in the G conferences
 
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Heardler

Active Member
It might not receive an auto-bid, but just in terms football ability on the field, it might be on par with the P12 right now.
Also, if this “Alliance” thing really works, the SEC may need a conference scheduling partner of their own. ……and after the B12 expansion cripples the AAC, the B12 is their obvious choice.
Franky speaking, I think it would be better than what the Pac 12 has rolled out for the past several years. If this new B12 group scheduled a head to head series with them I think there's a damn good chance we'd end up on top.
 
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