• The KillerFrogs

Bracketology

Wexahu

Full Member
I did not think that was allowed on this site.




So if I understand, you are saying that not watching the regular season of these small conferences and then only watching their tournaments is a bad thing.

but

not watching the small conference regular season and not watching the conference tournaments is better...
I know I'm not welcome here, but I think overall the 68-team tournament is bad for the sport. It renders the regular season not very important at all. I think if they did away with it.....limited the field and created reasonable divisions so that there aren't teams from 32 conferences competing for the same championship......in other words, replaced it with something that I think would be better.....it would benefit the sport.

I guess the equivalent would including FCS schools in the CFP and making it a 32-team one division playoff. Understand it's not apples to apples as football isn't basketball but watch the games from September thru November become an afterthought in that scenario.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Get rid of all tournaments!!! They completely destroy the regular season. How could you possibly enjoy a regular season game when there are tournaments that follow?
Well, college football for the longest time had no tournaments (unless you call Bowl games tournaments....Bowl games that actually used to mean something by the way until a proper "tournament" was added) at the end of its season and it's a pretty well known thought out there that college football has the best regular season in all of sports. So you might be on to something. :)
 

Jared7

Active Member
On a related subject, I can't think of many sports (any, really) where expanding the playoff fields increased overall interest in the sport, that's a myth.
I think expanding the field in tennis increases interest. At most schools, there are really only a few dozen fans that care all that much about their tennis teams, and when there were only 16 teams in either the Indoors and the NCAA's, that really only meant 16 x a few dozen. Now, with 64 teams, that's 64 x a few dozen and that increases interest by a factor of 4. Beyond the elite, there really is a chase to become eligible. And ESPN now has a broadcast deal to cover the finals because interest is generated through the multiple weeks of the tourney. So I disagree. In tennis, overall interest has increased because of the expansion of the tourneys. It's not a myth.

And I definitely have more interest in hoops this year because of our likely bid. So I disagree there too.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I think expanding the field in tennis increases interest. At most schools, there are really only a few dozen fans that care all that much about their tennis teams, and when there were only 16 teams in either the Indoors and the NCAA's, that really only meant 16 x a few dozen. Now, with 64 teams, that's 64 x a few dozen and that increases interest by a factor of 4. Beyond the elite, there really is a chase to become eligible. And ESPN now has a broadcast deal to cover the finals because interest is generated through the multiple weeks of the tourney. So I disagree. In tennis, overall interest has increased because of the expansion of the tourneys. It's not a myth.
College tennis? generally speaking, hardly anyone is interested in that sport except parents, family members and true die hards. I'm talking about major sports, all the major sports leagues plus college football and basketball. Hell, even NASCAR, although that's not even a major sport anymore. It's decline started immediately after they came up with their "playoffs". They wanted more drivers to have a chance of winning the Cup. Now they have half full or less stands at most of the races.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
I know I'm not welcome here, but I think overall the 68-team tournament is bad for the sport. It renders the regular season not very important at all. I think if they did away with it.....limited the field and created reasonable divisions so that there aren't teams from 32 conferences competing for the same championship......in other words, replaced it with something that I think would be better.....it would benefit the sport.

I guess the equivalent would including FCS schools in the CFP and making it a 32-team one division playoff. Understand it's not apples to apples as football isn't basketball but watch the games from September thru November become an afterthought in that scenario.
I think you offer many great postings even if others do disagree. (Though you should never post anything related to 2014)

I think there is more to balancing the different sports and post-seasons than you put in. Your thoughts are more extreme right or left as the only acceptable sports answer. You tend to devalue lower levels as below your time, even if others care about them. Each sport needs a balance between the number of teams, the length of post season, the fan interaction, etc.. I would bet money the the post season has little to do with fan interest during the season compared to other factors. The length of the regular season probably has more impact as does sports betting.

If my team has a shot at a playoff, I tend to pay attention to the regular season more. When you rule out most teams before the season starts, then it lessens the regular season. That said, you are right in that a playoff can be too large - it is about balancing the number of teams in the system with the time it takes to play (basketball can play multiple games per weekend, football not so much) so a 3-4 week playoff is about right for fan interest. I just think you are too restrictive because you set too many teams as unworthy. That hurts fandom more.

It is about balance.
 

Jared7

Active Member
College tennis? generally speaking, hardly anyone is interested in that sport except parents, family members and true die hards. I'm talking about major sports, all the major sports leagues plus college football and basketball. Hell, even NASCAR, although that's not even a major sport anymore. It's decline started immediately after they came up with their "playoffs". They wanted more drivers to have a chance of winning the Cup. Now they have half full or less stands at most of the races.
You said "any sport." And you've now amended that to just "major sports." Well, pro tennis is certainly "major" - the top players are among the most well compensated athletes anywhere, counting prize money and endorsements. Federer and Nadal make more money than players in team sports. And the Slams have 128-player fields because more rounds means way more money and interest and TV ratings with multi-week tourneys. And there are multiple tourneys all over the world every week - all with expanded fields that generate more interest and money. Tennis and football (soccer) are two of the most "major" sports worldwide and have tremendous levels of interest across the planet - all because of the expanded access. And the added "playoffs" (i.e., the ATP Finals) generate as much interest as the Slams these days. And the country competition - the Davis Cup - also generates tons of worldwide interest.

I just don't agree with your premise. Expanded access generates more interest, in my view. As has been proven in tennis and soccer worldwide. It's done it at the college level too. And it's clearly done it in college basketball. There is way more interest in Frog basketball this season because we're likely in the Dance.
 

East Coast

Tier 1
Probably need to review this silly rule.


I see your point, makes sense. This is more just about only being in Division 1 for 2 years doesnt allow you to play in the NCAA tourney? Seems arbitrary.

You could also say maybe because Jacksonville State knew they were already going dancing before this game they kind of hit the brakes and on the other side Bellarmine knew this is our last game of the year, lets go crazy and thats how they pulled off the win.

I do still like the auto-bid going to the tourney winner. There is something to be said for rising to the occasion and playing your best basketball leading into the tourney. The smaller conferences, fair or not, know the name of the game. We gotta win our tourney to most likely get the bid but, alot of these conference tourneys now reward regular season success with a bye, or double-bye. Its not perfect and probably just about money in the end but it usually works itself out in the end.

I would also add that this is the exception, not the rule. The regular season does matter in the selection process for the majority of the field. There are a handful of small, lesser-known conferences where the tourney ultimately decides their fate. And they don't seem to be bothered by it.
Except if Jacksonville, which is different than Jacksonville State, had won yesterday, Jacksonville State would have stayed home.
 

East Coast

Tier 1
He can shoot.
But doing push ups and taunting the crowd is over the top to me.
Yup, he is an a**, but he didn't taunt in the face of the other team, and was playing up to the home crowd. I watched the first half, and couldn't believe how poorly Wagner played. Also, the fight could have been far worse. The Bryant students immediately surrounding the tussle stayed back and didn't participate. It could have been very, very, ugly.
 

Bob Sugar

Active Member
The BC-Wake game is coming down to the wire on ESPN

EDIT: Two bad possessions to end the game and we are headed to OT.
 
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Wexahu

Full Member
I think you offer many great postings even if others do disagree. (Though you should never post anything related to 2014)

I think there is more to balancing the different sports and post-seasons than you put in. Your thoughts are more extreme right or left as the only acceptable sports answer. You tend to devalue lower levels as below your time, even if others care about them. Each sport needs a balance between the number of teams, the length of post season, the fan interaction, etc.. I would bet money the the post season has little to do with fan interest during the season compared to other factors. The length of the regular season probably has more impact as does sports betting.

If my team has a shot at a playoff, I tend to pay attention to the regular season more. When you rule out most teams before the season starts, then it lessens the regular season. That said, you are right in that a playoff can be too large - it is about balancing the number of teams in the system with the time it takes to play (basketball can play multiple games per weekend, football not so much) so a 3-4 week playoff is about right for fan interest. I just think you are too restrictive because you set too many teams as unworthy. That hurts fandom more.

It is about balance.
There has never been a Team seeded lower than 8 win a Final Four game. And there has never been a team seeded lower than 11 even make a Final Four. So the bottom 24 teams in the field (teams 45-68) have yet to make a Final Four......in 37 years of the current format. Teams 33-44 have only made the Final Four 6 times in 37 years. And there are teams that are finishing in the bottom half of their league making the Championship tournament. It's already way out of balance.

I'm not devaluing lower level teams, they are devaluing themselves by virtue of them not winning one Final Four game in 37 years. They should be playing in a division in which they actually have a snowball's chance of winning. There is nothing wrong with lower division basketball, I guarantee you the D2 and D3 national champions don't feel slighted or devalued because they can't play in this tournament.

This is another subject for a another time, but college basketball has the same OOC scheduling issue as college football. Games against crap schools that cheat the fans. Our run through the SWAC and the Southland Conference this year was a waste, and everyone does it, not just us, so we are FAR from the most guilty party.

And then stands are 1/3 full and people wonder why.
 

satis1103

DAOTONPYH EHT LIAH LLA
There has never been a Team seeded lower than 8 win a Final Four game. And there has never been a team seeded lower than 11 even make a Final Four. So the bottom 24 teams in the field (teams 45-68) have yet to make a Final Four......in 37 years of the current format. Teams 33-44 have only made the Final Four 6 times in 37 years. And there are teams that are finishing in the bottom half of their league making the Championship tournament. It's already way out of balance.

I'm not devaluing lower level teams, they are devaluing themselves by virtue of them not winning one Final Four game in 37 years. They should be playing in a division in which they actually have a snowball's chance of winning. There is nothing wrong with lower division basketball, I guarantee you the D2 and D3 national champions don't feel slighted or devalued because they can't play in this tournament.

This is another subject for a another time, but college basketball has the same OOC scheduling issue as college football. Games against crap schools that cheat the fans. Our run through the SWAC and the Southland Conference this year was a waste, and everyone does it, not just us, so we are FAR from the most guilty party.

And then stands are 1/3 full and people wonder why.
Guys, stop feeding this ultimate wet blanket with debate. Instead, let's give him a nickname, like He Who Would Never Hang A Child's Picture On A Fridge Because That Picture Sucks.
 
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