• The KillerFrogs

[big steaming pile] Pissed Me Off Again

DistrictFrog

Active Member
Deep Purple said:
 
 
Where in the column does Engel say we have to go undefeated?  I see where he says we need to win the conference.  I see no mention at all of going undefeated except a reference to our 2010 season.
 
Is it possible you fellas might be reading stuff into this column just a bit?
 
Exactly.  He alludes that if we miss the playoff, this year will be a disappointment and will be on the team.  I don't think anyone on here would disagree with that statement.
 
Overall, it is a fine article - he has jumped on the TCU bandwagon...
 

cdsfrog

Active Member
Deep Purple said:
 
 
Where in the column does Engel say we have to go undefeated?  I see where he says we need to win the conference.  I see no mention at all of going undefeated except a reference to our 2010 season.
 
Is it possible you fellas might be reading stuff into this column just a bit?
 
"Know this, as the No. 2 team if they don’t make the playoffs, it’s on them and this season is a bust."
 
At least 8 of the 12 games this season if we lose will result in removing us from the playoffs. 1 loss. Possibly all 11.
 
 
So perfect regular season is absolutely what he means.
 
Ohio State despite their horrible schedule can lose 1 and still get in with a conference championship. Big 12 team must be undefeated if not UT/OU
 

YA

Active Member
I'm sorry--he said if TCU does not get to the playoffs this year, then the season is a bust.
 
That is total BS and I hate that for the team to have that mentality.  It is also loser mentality to say that but then Mac is known as a loser in life anyway so he does have a tad bit of knowledge on being a bust.
 

rifram09

Active Member
Limey Frog said:
I don't care for Muck at all, but that column was fine. The only statement in there I didn't agree with is the one about the MWC schedule--I don't recall hearing any TCU fan claim the MWC schedule wasn't weak even at the time. That wasn't the argument. The point was that we were playing the hardest schedule other schools would let us play, and that playing weaker teams doesn't necessarily mean your team isn't the best. As I said at the time, if the Pittsburg Steelers shared a division with three middle schools, they'd still be the Steelers.
 
As for the rest of it, weren't we trying to replicate and surpass Boise? They made it to and won a BCS bowl before we did, and were known nationally as the have-not underdog that could before we were. His column does nothing more than point out that fulfilling expectations is really hard to do when the bar for success is perfection, and that more often than not it doesn't happen. What's to argue with there? Going 12-0 is really hard; we most likely won't manage it. But if we don't make the playoffs the year will be a bit of a disappointment and it will be because we didn't win our games--we won't get left out at 12-0.
 
Again, I don't like Muck. But don't go getting all bent out of shape just for the gratifying sensation of outrage. There is no insult here.
He always gives just enough of a backhand with his compliments to piss me off.

I agree with you re: the MWC schedule, which is my complaint with Mac's article.

And my deal with the Boise comment goes back to how much I always hated being lumped in with them. We spent our entire existence as a school in a "power conference," except for a 16 year period where we were relegated to a lesser conference. Boise was a Junior College until 1965, and didn't play D1 football until 1996.

So the same year the SWC broke up, Boise became a D1 program. And this yahoo says TCU is trying to be the next Boise? That line of thought never sat well with me. Especially since we were poised to be the first BCS buster at least in 2003 until we blew one game. Boise technically got in first. But TCU was never subordinate to Boise in any appreciable measure, and we certainly didn't build our program around the idea of trying to aspire towards Boise.
 

ifrog

Active Member
cdsfrog said:
 
"Know this, as the No. 2 team if they dont make the playoffs, its on them and this season is a bust."
 
At least 8 of the 12 games this season if we lose will result in removing us from the playoffs. 1 loss. Possibly all 11.
 
 
So perfect regular season is absolutely what he means.
 
Ohio State despite their horrible schedule can lose 1 and still get in with a conference championship. Big 12 team must be undefeated if not UT/OU
This
 

Deep Purple

Full Member
cdsfrog said:
"Know this, as the No. 2 team if they don’t make the playoffs, it’s on them and this season is a bust."
 
At least 8 of the 12 games this season if we lose will result in removing us from the playoffs. 1 loss. Possibly all 11.
 
 
So perfect regular season is absolutely what he means.
 
Ohio State despite their horrible schedule can lose 1 and still get in with a conference championship. Big 12 team must be undefeated if not UT/OU
 
May well be what he meant.  But he didn't say that.
 
In any case, a lot of football fans -- heck, a lot of TCU fans -- recognize as true the very thing Engel was implying: That virtually any Big 12 team (not just TCU) will have to be undefeated in order to make the playoffs.  And we all know the bullspit reason: We don't have divisional play and a conference championship game.
 
So what's the specific beef with Engel?
 

rifram09

Active Member
I don't know if we have to go undefeated. It depends how everyone else does, who we beat, where we beat them, how we beat them, etc. I could definitely see us getting in with 1-loss, especially if there are a couple 2-loss P5 champions.

I am just glad that now we are essentially guarantied a playoff spot if we're undefeated. We've gone undefeated twice in the last six years couldn't get in.
 

NavySupplyFrog

Active Member
YA said:
I'm sorry--he said if TCU does not get to the playoffs this year, then the season is a bust.
 
That is total BS and I hate that for the team to have that mentality.  It is also loser mentality to say that but then Mac is known as a loser in life anyway so he does have a tad bit of knowledge on being a bust.
I would not think that the season would be a bust. But it would be a disappointment not to win it all just like it is every year. Our coach lists national championship on top of the pyramid every year for a reason, because it is the goal we (and every other team in the nation) should expect. Will I be disappointed if we don't, definitely, but you will never be the best if you don't have those expectations.
 

cdsfrog

Active Member
Deep Purple said:
 
May well be what he meant.  But he didn't say that.
 
In any case, a lot of football fans -- heck, a lot of TCU fans -- recognize as true the very thing Engel was implying: That virtually any Big 12 team (not just TCU) will have to be undefeated in order to make the playoffs.  And we all know the bullspit reason: We don't have divisional play and a conference championship game.
 
So what's the specific beef with Engel?
 
I'm sorry you don't get it. He's saying if TCU isn't perfect the season is a bust. That's idiotic because if they go 12-1 and get left out of the playoffs again it's a not a bust season. It's yet another shafting on a system that needs to expand to 8.
 

Deep Purple

Full Member
cdsfrog said:
I'm sorry you don't get it. He's saying if TCU isn't perfect the season is a bust. That's idiotic because if they go 12-1 and get left out of the playoffs again it's a not a bust season. It's yet another shafting on a system that needs to expand to 8.
 
If that's your only beef, why all the explanation about how he implied that TCU would have to be undefeated to get in the playoffs, as if that were the thing you objected to?  Why didn't you just say, "He's wrong, the season wouldn't be a bust"?
 

cdsfrog

Active Member
Deep Purple said:
 
If that's your only beef, why all the explanation about how he implied that TCU would have to be undefeated to get in the playoffs, as if that were the thing you objected to?  Why didn't you just say, "He's wrong, the season wouldn't be a bust"?
 
I don't think I didn't get it.  I think you shifted the objection.
 
What are you talking about? I didn't even bring it up. I clarified what someone meant when they said he implied we needed to be perfect or our season was a bust. I didn't just say he's wrong, because he's a tool and a giant doosh.
 

Deep Purple

Full Member
cdsfrog said:
What are you talking about? I didn't even bring it up. I clarified what someone meant when they said he implied we needed to be perfect or our season was a bust. I didn't just say he's wrong, because he's a tool and a giant doosh.
 
Okay, understood.  And my post sounded more confrontational than I intended.  Apologies.
 

cdsfrog

Active Member
Deep Purple said:
 
Okay, understood.  And my post sounded more confrontational than I intended.  Apologies.
 
Gotcha. Irrational hate for Engel does make sense to me too. He really does throw backhanded compliments at TCU all the time, and then of course and has plenty of negative articles too. I wish him and Jen would focus on their Baylor lovefest instead.
 

DeuceBoogieNights

Active Member
Sorry but if the Frogs don't make the playoffs, this season is a bust imo. Time to live up to expectations. TCU has been building for this exact situation since Patterson was hired.
 

cdsfrog

Active Member
DeuceBoogieNights said:
Sorry but if the Frogs don't make the playoffs, this season is a bust imo. Time to live up to expectations. TCU has been building for this exact situation since Patterson was hired.
 
If they go 11-1 and get screwed again I'm not going to call the season a bust. Personally I think they go 12-0, in route to 14-0.
 
That said given their pre season ranking and royal shafting last year it wouldn't shock me to see us eek in as a #4 seed at 11-1 IF we lose earlier in the year. OU or Baylor/ and we're out.
 

Limey Frog

Full Member
YA said:
My issue is that if we are not undefeated, he is saying the season is a failure.  Jeez that is like saying he doesn't write for Sports Illustrated and his career is a failure.
 
We think we're good enough to be in the playoffs. Playing for a national championship is the last thing GP hasn't achieved here (despite having many teams that deserved a shot). 11-1 is unlikely to get us in to the final four. Ergo, anything less than unbeaten is likely to prove a disappointment. That seems fairly clear. Maybe we can sneak in at 11-1, but who's counting on it after last year?
 

SnoopFrogs11

Active Member
Anything less than playing for a national championship in the playoffs would be a bust of a season.  Last season we were just trying to eek in the playoffs.  This year we want to be right there in the thick of the hunt for the playoffs all season.  A chance to win the national championship won't come along very often since we are losing most of the team next year.  
 

Deep Purple

Full Member
SnoopFrogs11 said:
Anything less than playing for a national championship in the playoffs would be a bust of a season.  Last season we were just trying to eek in the playoffs.  This year we want to be right there in the thick of the hunt for the playoffs all season.  A chance to win the national championship won't come along very often since we are losing most of the team next year.  
 
This.  We've already had an almost unbroken string of winning seasons.  Only 2 losing seasons in the last 17 years, no matter what the conference.  But this doesn't get us where we want or need to be.  In fact, it's a rather Texas Tech-like brag.  Some success, but never truly grabbing the brass ring -- at least not in a very long time.
 
It's not really a fair comparison, I'll grant you, since we've come far closer to it than Tech -- or for that matter, Baylor.  Two national titles.  Eighteen conference titles.  Thirty bowl games.  Twelve top-10 finishes.  Four top-5 finishes.  And part of the time we had to do it the hard way, without the recruiting or monetary advantages of a power conference affiliation.
 
Point is, TCU is now in a unique position that doesn't come around very often.  In fact, it's pretty rare.  We're in the right conference situation with the right coach, the right personnel, and the right national credibility to go for it all.  If we don't get our shot now, who knows when it will come again?
 
After this season, we lose a lot of key seniors and will go into a minor rebuilding mode -- for a few years at least.  We will still win more than lose, but aren't likely to truly be in the hunt.  After this season, it may be several years before the opportunity rolls around again.
 
Now is the time.  Today is our moment.  Trite as it sounds, destiny is calling us.  There's no room at this juncture for satisfaction with just getting close.  We've been close so many times.  This is our season of opportunity.  We have to seize it.  Whether we get a national title or not, if we don't at least make the playoffs, this team will have fallen far short of its potential.
 
If that happens, the season may not be a failure, but it will definitely be a bust in expectations.  And not just TCU expectations, but the expectations of most of the college football chattering class.
 
There's a reason Gary Patterson has placed "National Championship" at the apex of the TCU Pyramid of Success in the team meeting room every single season for the past 15 years.  And there's a reason he requires every team member to sign it.  It isn't just an inspiring but unattainable goal, like world peace.  It's a real, tangible objective.  And it's currently within our reach.
 
With the right combination of effort, inspiration, and luck, we may make it.  If we don't, it should never be said that this team didn't ascend as high as it possibly could.
 

satis1103

DAOTONPYH EHT LIAH LLA
We don't have to go undefeated. We just have to show we are the team they thought we were - up there on that top level. More than one loss of course makes that nearly impossible.
 
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