• The KillerFrogs

Big 12 in position to poach Pac 12 schools?

Eight

Member
Yes. As I've written here many times, I think the series is already worth continuing. SMU getting a program upgrade and our being able to make it as a Pac 12-Big XII clash for supremacy in north Texas isn't going to make it less worth maintaining, even if the marketing is somewhat hyperbolic. I mean, what sports marketing isn't?

between 1930 and the breakup of the swc, smu and tcu teams who finished in the top 3 of the conference played 6 times, let me type that again, 6 times

they were:
1931 when smu finished 1st and tcu 2nd
1935 when smu finished 1st and tcu 2nd
1938 when tcu finished 1st and smu 2nd
1945 when smu finished 2nd and tcu finished t-3rd
1958 when #10 tcu finished 1st and #18 smu finished 2nd
1984 when smu t-1st and tcu t-3rd

after 1984, the next time smu had a winning season was the 4 season run under june jones (2009-2012) and then under sonny dykes

all the media hype, marketing, and conference tie in's aren't going to matter on a national level if the teams playing in it aren't winning regularly, seriously it has been 64 years since both teams were ranked going into this game and chopped wants to call us out for"pissing" on this rivalry
 

Limey Frog

Full Member
between 1930 and the breakup of the swc, smu and tcu teams who finished in the top 3 of the conference played 6 times, let me type that again, 6 times

they were:
1931 when smu finished 1st and tcu 2nd
1935 when smu finished 1st and tcu 2nd
1938 when tcu finished 1st and smu 2nd
1945 when smu finished 2nd and tcu finished t-3rd
1958 when #10 tcu finished 1st and #18 smu finished 2nd
1984 when smu t-1st and tcu t-3rd

after 1984, the next time smu had a winning season was the 4 season run under june jones (2009-2012) and then under sonny dykes

all the media hype, marketing, and conference tie in's aren't going to matter on a national level if the teams playing in it aren't winning regularly, seriously it has been 64 years since both teams were ranked going into this game and chopped wants to call us out for"pissing" on this rivalry
I didn't claim the Iron Skillet game would cure cancer, I just think it's worth playing for reasons of program history, local interest, and the convenience of proximity. If it's played on a September Saturday and billed as a Pac 12-Big 12 clash, I think it would appeal to neutral viewers a) more than it does now, b) more than [Big State U] vs. [garbage Rent-a-Win program].
 
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Eight

Member
I didn't claim the Iron Skillet game would cure cancer, I just think it's worth paying for reasons of program history, local interest, and the convenience of proximity. If it's played on a September Saturday and billed as a Pac 12-Big 12 clash, I think it would appeal to neutral viewers a) more than it does now, b) more than [Big State U] vs. [garbage Rent-a-Win program].

why would anyone outside the metroplex who weren't tied to the schools care if both schools aren't any good?

haven't watched fsu -florida in years, same w miami and fsu because they don't garner that much interest because they haven't been that relevant in just a few seasons

don't care about paul bunyan's axe, the wooden bucket, the floyd trophy, the civil war, and not sure the last time i watched all of usc-ucla or usc-nd

way too many games available, way too much content which is why i don't understand how if people aren't watching pac 12 games and you are losing two of your biggest brands adding a group of lesser profile programs does anything for the conference

seriously, i wouldn't watch smu vs fresno or unlv now so putting a pac brand on them doesn't raise the interest unless they are good teams
 

jack the frog

Full Member
lived outside the metroplex in central texas and the gulf coast and the next time i hear on the radio or read about the iron skillet game will be the first time

you want it relevant, you want people outside the two schools to care have something more than kitchenware at stake

when was the last time that game mattered on a national level or than one school screwing up the season for the other?

fix that and people might notice and to be really blunt i don't think i was born yet the last time it mattered on a national level
Outside of the few real brands people don’t realize how parochial their football interests are. By example, I lived in Ga. for years. This was a couple decades ago but they really didn’t have a clue who A&M was. Blank stares. Texas they knew but not Aggy and that surprised me. A&M was simply not a brand. TCU was an almost complete unknown in that SEC world.
 

hiphopfroggy

Active Member
Outside of the few real brands people don’t realize how parochial their football interests are. By example, I lived in Ga. for years. This was a couple decades ago but they really didn’t have a clue who A&M was. Blank stares. Texas they knew but not Aggy and that surprised me. A&M was simply not a brand. TCU was an almost complete unknown in that SEC world.
Same for those outside SEC country.

I have never had any interest in the SEC or Big 10 and I never will. I don't care how much ESPN or FOX want me to.
 

LVH

Active Member
Could it be SMU posturing for a Big 12 invite? I don’t have the disdain many have for SMU. I’m not saying they bring anything to the Big 12. The best reason to add them would be to build a fortress around TX to try to stop out of state recruiting.

If the PAC takes SMU I would think the other Texas school they would target is Rice. It’s the best fit for the PAC though I would not put it past Aggie to pull an Aggie and leave the SEC for the PAC. They do seem to hate Texas that much.

I think the ACC is the better fit by far for SMU. If Notre Lame leaves the ACC I’m not sure the Big 12 is safe from poaching. The schools I think would leave are the eastern ones which are probably looking to avoid the western travel.

The Big Ten is the big fish. They will always dictate what happens. There are a few SEC schools that would love to join the Big Ten.
I have nothing against SMU, I just think they go to show what a farce collegiate athletics is becoming, with teams being promoted to larger leagues not based on merit, but because they exist in the right place. You have far more deserving programs than SMU who are not being considered because they dont live in a big enough TV market.

Speaking of Rice... they have more accomplishments in football than SMU does this century. Rice actually has conference titles and Top 25 finishes. Also a national championship (albeit a 20 year old one in a non revenue sport) but still.
 

LVH

Active Member
rice is invisible in the city of houston pretty much year round when it comes to sports and not sure how smu would stem the outflow of recruits from texas

gun to my head, couldn't make a decent guess the last time i heard anyone host or caller on houston radio or television mention rice football or basketball
Same with SMU... when has anyone ever called into the Ticket of 105.3 The Fan to talk about SMU?
 

LVH

Active Member
Well believe it or not, the P12 is very much considering 4 teams to at least give the appearance that they are keeping up with 12 teams.

The top 4 candidates are:
SDSU
SMU
Fresno State
UNLV
UNLV is basically a UTA or University of North Texas, but with a brief elite run in basketball 30 years ago. Commuter school in a large city that people in Las Vegas don't really care about. Hell UNLV hosts the MWC basketball tournament every year and opposing fanbases will outnumber UNLV fans for UNLV tournament games.
 

hiphopfroggy

Active Member
I have nothing against SMU, I just think they go to show what a farce collegiate athletics is becoming, with teams being promoted to larger leagues not based on merit, but because they exist in the right place. You have far more deserving programs than SMU who are not being considered because they dont live in a big enough TV market.

Speaking of Rice... they have more accomplishments in football than SMU does this century. Rice actually has conference titles and Top 25 finishes. Also a national championship (albeit a 20 year old one in a non revenue sport) but still.
I disagree. Nobody has been treated more unjustly by NCAA athletics than SMU.

It is sweet justice anytime TCU, UH, SMU or Rice gets brought back to their rightful place in college athletics.

Same for Big East schools.
 

ECM

Active Member
So hard? You’ve done nothing.
I have nothing against SMU, I just think they go to show what a farce collegiate athletics is becoming, with teams being promoted to larger leagues not based on merit, but because they exist in the right place. You have far more deserving programs than SMU who are not being considered because they dont live in a big enough TV market.

Speaking of Rice... they have more accomplishments in football than SMU does this century. Rice actually has conference titles and Top 25 finishes. Also a national championship (albeit a 20 year old one in a non revenue sport) but still.
Rice is not serious about college athletics in 2023. Look at their facilities. If they’d put any effort whatsoever from an institutional standpoint into improving athletics over the past 5-10 years they likely would be (by far) the PAC’s first choice in Texas given their academic standing

Say what you want about SMU on the field but we’ve invested around approx $200M in athletic facilities upgrades in the past decade. Not sure there’s a G5 school out there right now that’s as invested as SMU is. Maybe Liberty but they’re a nonstarter for almost any conference for obvious reasons
 

HG73

Active Member
The PAC will be holding their nose taking SDS or Fresno. Those schools are in a different system fully beneath the University of California system. They can't even offer doctoral degrees. No more looking down their noses at Tech and WV.
 

LVH

Active Member
Rice is not serious about college athletics in 2023. Look at their facilities. If they’d put any effort whatsoever from an institutional standpoint into improving athletics over the past 5-10 years they likely would be (by far) the PAC’s first choice in Texas given their academic standing

Say what you want about SMU on the field but we’ve invested around approx $200M in athletic facilities upgrades in the past decade. Not sure there’s a G5 school out there right now that’s as invested as SMU is. Maybe Liberty but they’re a nonstarter for almost any conference for obvious reasons
That's the thing, though - its just investments. It hasn't translated to on field success anywhere.

SMU has a long way to go to be relevant in football in the AAC, let alone a larger conference. It reminds me of TCU Basketball, we never had a winning record in the Mountain West, then had to go join the best basketball league in the country where it took us many years just to not be a total joke let alone win.

SMU has no top 25 finishes, no conference titles, no major bowl wins, nothing since the death penalty... plus they have in my opinion a terrible head coach. Hiring a head coach who got fired as OC from a terrible Miami team? Yikes. When we joined the Big 12 we were coming off a MWC title 3-peat, BCS bowl wins, 4 straight 11+ win seasons, and had a head coach at the time considered to be one of the best in the country, and it still took us a couple seasons to find our footing.
 

Froglaw

Full Member
Still can't stop laughing at the Pac 12 adding SMU who has accomplished nothing other than existing in the right place

Feel bad for Boise State. They have conference titles, BCS bowl wins, NY6 bowl wins, Top 10 finishes, and more NCAA tournament appearances than SMU over the last 15 years... but they get the shaft

Boise State fans actually go to the games
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Rice is not serious about college athletics in 2023. Look at their facilities. If they’d put any effort whatsoever from an institutional standpoint into improving athletics over the past 5-10 years they likely would be (by far) the PAC’s first choice in Texas given their academic standing

Say what you want about SMU on the field but we’ve invested around approx $200M in athletic facilities upgrades in the past decade. Not sure there’s a G5 school out there right now that’s as invested as SMU is. Maybe Liberty but they’re a nonstarter for almost any conference for obvious reasons
$200,000,000?!? You can't even stock water in your dump of a stadium!

Bejeezus!
 

Eight

Member
man you really hate SMU lol.

Not getting the death penalty and then colluded against by the Big 8, obviously.

don't hate smu, just don't find the attraction of the game outside of the regularity of it has made it "traditional" similar to meeting at the same crappy dinner for breakfast with friends because it is convenient and we always meet there instead of the quality of the food

in regards to colluded against by the big 8, exactly why did any of tcu, smu rice, and houston merit inclusion into the big 12 and don't point to other schools that got in. what had any of those 4 done in terms of in sports success or commitment of resources?
 
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