Big 12 Expansion

[Jefffrog1993]

I think Big 12should go East with ACC not West to Pac 12. ACC still has the biggest asset teams in place under gor. Clemson FSU North Carolina, Miami if enough teams leave current ACC the big 12 could blend with the teams in Big 12 and ACC that bring in most Dollars. Try hard to get Norte dame let them have independence but they place several ACC teams. Give Norte dame Clemson more money like big 12 did with Texas and OU.

 

[Wexahu]

This is from the guy who broke the USC/UCLA move story:



FWIW. If Oregon isn't moving anywhere, I don't think anyone else leaves the Pac 10 either. Then what happens?

If I'm making decisions for the Big 10, I'm not inviting Oregon and Washington. But I'm not sure I would have invited USC and UCLA either.

Not enough is made IMO of the travel nightmares some of these conferences are creating for themselves. I have a friend whose daughter plays soccer for Tulsa, the trips (sometimes mid-week) they go on for conference games are ridiculous. Philadelphia....Orlando....Tampa....Greenville, NC. From Tulsa! Just stupid. They fly over about 15 schools they could or should be playing just to play a 2 hour soccer game.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

This is from the guy who broke the USC/UCLA move story:



FWIW. If Oregon isn't moving anywhere, I don't think anyone else leaves the Pac 10 either. Then what happens?

This might turn the tables where they take 4 Big XII schools

 

[Gary's Shirtless Revenge]

This is from the guy who broke the USC/UCLA move story:



FWIW. If Oregon isn't moving anywhere, I don't think anyone else leaves the Pac 10 either. Then what happens?

Most likely outcome could be everyone stands pat... FOX takes the Big 12 Tier 1 inventory (they need it), ESPN takes the PAC Tier 1 inventory.

 

[Wexahu]

I think Big 12should go East with ACC not West to Pac 12. ACC still has the biggest asset teams in place under gor. Clemson FSU North Carolina, Miami if enough teams leave current ACC the big 12 could blend with the teams in Big 12 and ACC that bring in most Dollars. Try hard to get Norte dame let them have independence but they place several ACC teams. Give Norte dame Clemson more money like big 12 did with Texas and OU.

I would go west. Already too many programs in the east and besides, I think the GOR situation in the ACC hamstrings those schools.

Pluck the Arizona schools, Utah and Colorado if you can (and Washington/Oregon if they want to come along) and be done with it for awhile. Create East/West divisions and the travel won't be too brutal. At the very least you've added four major state schools to the lineup in parts of the country that are growing. That's the best case scenario barring some pie in the sky situation.

 

[Wexahu]

This might turn the tables where they take 4 Big XII schools

Possibly. Then we are probably screwed. Unless the Cal's and Stanford's are too high and mighty to associate themselves with K-State and TTech, then we probably have a puncher's chance of being included.

I would guess OSU, KU and ISU are shoo-ins in that scenario.

 

[This Ain't Chopped Liver]

If I'm making decisions for the Big 10, I'm not inviting Oregon and Washington. But I'm not sure I would have invited USC and UCLA either.

Not much is made IMO of the travel nightmares some of these conferences are creating for themselves. I have a friend whose daughter plays soccer for Tulsa, the trips (sometimes mid-week) they go on for conference games are ridiculous. Philadelphia....Orlando....Tampa....Greenville, NC. From Tulsa! Just stupid. They fly over about 15 schools they could or should be playing just to play a 2 hour soccer game.

Yep, totally agree, as I have stated previously—these universities are being hypocrites regarding travel, global warming, and yes, the students’ best interest. I never expected the proud PAC 12 schools to break on this, nor the Big Ten to blow up their proud geographic continuity. Walk the talk—it’s messaging to all us smaller people watching.

 

[Zubaz]

Not enough is made IMO of the travel nightmares some of these conferences are creating for themselves. I have a friend whose daughter plays soccer for Tulsa, the trips (sometimes mid-week) they go on for conference games are ridiculous. Philadelphia....Orlando....Tampa....Greenville, NC. From Tulsa! Just stupid. They fly over about 15 schools they could or should be playing just to play a 2 hour soccer game.

Meh. We stopped caring about the impact of travel on student athletes a loooooong time ago. The SEC is really the only conference with a semblance of geographic consistency. We have WVU. The ACC rolls all the way from Syracuse down to Tallahassee. Pac-12 already had folks going from Pullman down to Tempe. The difference there seems pretty negligible.

 

[BrewingFrog]

If the PAC stands pat, with no marquee properties, then they will probably be looking at a reduced broadcast package during their 30-day negotiating period. We have no way of knowing what the numbers would be for a PAC-BIGXII merger, or cherry-picking, but they'd offer a better inventory of potential matchups and would put teams like Oregon in the Central time zone for Conference games. Content would be generated for late games that would be more interesting to a Nationwide audience than usual.

There is no telling what the math is for things like carriage fees or other items of value to the Media, as that is usually just guessed at, but such an arrangement would probably be to their liking. Since nothing happens without prior approval of the Media, then this is the crucial element of any deal.

I cannot help but think that the streamers (Amazon, YouTube, Fubo, etc.) have not been taken particularly seriously by all the parties. Their presence has been, to my mind at least, a foil against ESPN/CBS/FOX. Getting them to the table as a "Broadcast Partner" would be groundbreaking, in that a new element would be brought into the calculus of what used to be a fairly closed market.

 

[TCUdirtbag]

This is from the guy who broke the USC/UCLA move story:



FWIW. If Oregon isn't moving anywhere, I don't think anyone else leaves the Pac 10 either. Then what happens?

If the Big Ten doesn’t add, the SEC doesn’t add, and the Pac-12(10) hold together? Pretty simple:
1. If the media money is better in the Pac, it’s possible some Big 12 members defect that direction, or perhaps more likely:
2. The Pac backfills with 2 and we all stand pat. For now.

 

[Purp]

Most likely outcome could be everyone stands pat... FOX takes the Big 12 Tier 1 inventory (they need it), ESPN takes the PAC Tier 1 inventory.

Curious why you think this may be most likely. The only way that could be true is if the PAC10 would earn the same as the new B12 on a per school basis. If the AZ/CO/UT bloc could earn more per school by joining the B12 I don't see how they turn that down. Especially considering the fact that it would almost certainly force the hands of Oregon and Washington to join as well. It seems impossible that such a B12 wouldn't earn more per school than anything the PAC could cobble together without USC and UCLA. Am I just underestimating the value of the remaining PAC schools? I can't see the PAC becoming more valuable unless they're playing at least 2 games every week in the central time zone. Only then will enough eye balls be added in normal TV time slots to increase their value.

 

[Purp]

If the PAC stands pat, with no marquee properties, then they will probably be looking at a reduced broadcast package during their 30-day negotiating period. We have no way of knowing what the numbers would be for a PAC-BIGXII merger, or cherry-picking, but they'd offer a better inventory of potential matchups and would put teams like Oregon in the Central time zone for Conference games. Content would be generated for late games that would be more interesting to a Nationwide audience than usual.

There is no telling what the math is for things like carriage fees or other items of value to the Media, as that is usually just guessed at, but such an arrangement would probably be to their liking. Since nothing happens without prior approval of the Media, then this is the crucial element of any deal.

I cannot help but think that the streamers (Amazon, YouTube, Fubo, etc.) have not been taken particularly seriously by all the parties. Their presence has been, to my mind at least, a foil against ESPN/CBS/FOX. Getting them to the table as a "Broadcast Partner" would be groundbreaking, in that a new element would be brought into the calculus of what used to be a fairly closed market.

Beat me by 3 minutes. I think we're on the same wavelength.

 

[Real Frog]

The only smart move of significant value at this point is adding the 6 PAC schools, but it must include Oregon and Washington. It's all network driven, ESPN has been killing the BIG 12 and PAC 12 for years. Get the 6 PAC 12 schools and immediately negotiate a grant of rights. The networks and BIG 10 will be coming for Oregon and Washington if they move to the BIG 12, if if they dilute the distribution, just so they can destabilize the conference and lower the payout, and put more money towards their two properties. A third strong conference is NOT in their best interest. The ACC 2-4 are delusional waiting on Notre Dame. I very seriously doubt they are ever coming to the BIG 12, but you worry about that when it implodes. Lock it up now.

 

[Limey Frog]

Curious why you think this may be most likely. The only way that could be true is if the PAC10 would earn the same as the new B12 on a per school basis. If the AZ/CO/UT bloc could earn more per school by joining the B12 I don't see how they turn that down. Especially considering the fact that it would almost certainly force the hands of Oregon and Washington to join as well. It seems impossible that such a B12 wouldn't earn more per school than anything the PAC could cobble together without USC and UCLA. Am I just underestimating the value of the remaining PAC schools? I can't see the PAC becoming more valuable unless they're playing at least 2 games every week in the central time zone. Only then will enough eye balls be added in normal TV time slots to increase their value.

I don't know that the Big XII can command more money than a Pac that still includes Oregon and Washington. Maybe, maybe not.

I think if the Pac wanted to add Big XII schools they might need six at this point, as it would take eight of ten current members to dissolve the league and GOR. I really don't want to see TCU in a West coast conference, but of course that would be better than being left out while OSU, Tech, and Baylor or Houston get in.

 

[YA]

Most likely outcome could be everyone stands pat... FOX takes the Big 12 Tier 1 inventory (they need it), ESPN takes the PAC Tier 1 inventory.

This is the most likely scenario

 

[Paul in uhh]

Most likely outcome could be everyone stands pat... FOX takes the Big 12 Tier 1 inventory (they need it), ESPN takes the PAC Tier 1 inventory.

So the pac will just sit with two less teams and ESPN will pay the same? Doubtful. They will need to replace usc and ucla and b12 teams aren’t budging.

They’ll either decide that adding and playing Fresno and San Jose state on espn3 Friday night isn’t so bad (and all teams take a HUGE pay cut) or, the corner/6 teams join the b12 (and everyone makes similar money) or the pac collapses.

 

[Limey Frog]

So the pac will just sit with two less teams and ESPN will pay the same? Doubtful. They will need to replace usc and ucla and b12 teams aren’t budging.

They’ll either decide that adding and playing Fresno and San Jose state on espn3 Friday night isn’t so bad (and all teams take a HUGE pay cut) or, the corner/6 teams join the b12 (and everyone makes similar money) or the pac collapses.

But if the most valuable programs in the Pac would make more money by joining the Big XII, it must also be true that they'd make more money by absorbing the best Big XII programs into the Pac. If Oregon and UW are staying put, it's not at all clear how this ends or it that will be good for TCU. Here we are again.

 

[LVH]

Try to get the Pac-10 to take BYU off our hands and then try to expand eastward.

 

[Big Frog II]

I don't think Utah, Colorado, and the Arizona schools trust Cal, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington to not leave them in a lurch in a year or two. They would be smart now to leave, and let those other 4 continue to beg the Big 10.

 

[CountryFrog]

I want West Virginia in the PAC 12, Oregon in the SEC, and Hawaii in the ACC