Big 10 Presidents to discuss expansion Sunday!

[joejordan]

Doesn't matter what you need or what you (or I) believe. Think what you want based on your knowledge of the situation, and wonder why business is so dang hard.

The SEC does pretty well, how many major markets have an SEC school?

Big 10 has Chicago (NW, actually pretty similar to us in the metroplex) - what else? Advertisers know who watches what, and where they are.

I'm going riding now because I'm tired of this.

 

[Opintel]

QUOTE(2314 @ Apr 18 2010, 01:22 PM) [snapback]546367[/snapback]
I know if I post "TCU is in the fourth-largest media market in the country" you will come back with "but Texa$ and A$M fans are represented here big time" and that's a sound argument.
But the facts are the Big 12 has ZERO schools in a Top 5 market like they could if TCU was asked to join.
I also agree with 'Face that the Big 12 could not shake all the bad pub if they passed on TCU.

However, as shown by the Utah game at ACS (50K), the locals can get excited about a winning local team.

I suggest that a consistently winning TCU, affiliated with any perceived "big time" football conference will bring heaps of viewers to the old TV set. Walmart is going to be so happy to sell all those purple t-shirts! It's perception of success (value), not real success that sucks in the t-shirt crowd. Please look at Aggie football over the last decade, pretty average, at best. That even discounts the added value of other winning sports teams at TCU; it probably shouldn't.

The t-shirts buy beer, chips, and watch their team. A sense of affiliation with a winner makes those folks inside that t-shirt feel good about themselves. That matters, yes? It then translates into discretionary spending on a myriad of stuff, and more eyeballs enjoying the TV commercials. This translates into $$$ - and that is the bottom line. Ain't it?

TCU could be the bandwagon of choice to jump on - seriously.

 

[Frog Attack II]

I think that last year's 50K in purple + college game day proved that TCU can be a bandwagon team that people in this metroplex get behind. 2010 is huge as far as the potential to build this program even higher.

Season ticket sales this year will be very telling - I think that we see a big increase (assuming that we're going to give the marketing another shot)... plus the talks of the new stadium... the game at Jerry World- a top 10 pre-season ranking - the timing is perfect - now just have to execute.

This is not the TCU of even 5-6 years ago.

Besides, to me, if the B10 expansion comes at the expense of the Big East, who else is left there if they go to 16 (assuming it's Rutgers, Uconn, Pitt, WVU, and Syracuse)? Big East would be done & the Big 10 would lock down practically all of the NorthEast & of course the midwest. Enter the MWC.....

 

[Limey Frog]

QUOTE(2314 @ Apr 18 2010, 01:22 PM) [snapback]546367[/snapback]
I know if I post "TCU is in the fourth-largest media market in the country" you will come back with "but Texa$ and A$M fans are represented here big time" and that's a sound argument.
But the facts are the Big 12 has ZERO schools in a Top 5 market like they could if TCU was asked to join.
I also agree with 'Face that the Big 12 could not shake all the bad pub if they passed on TCU.


TCU may not exactly "deliver" the DFW market to a Big 12 conference that already dominates it, but they might invite us to replace a team that left just to make sure we don't bring any other conference in here. Big 12 has no reason to worry about TCU in the MWC, but if we get a general shift toward 14 or 16 team conferences then TCU and the DFW market is going to look pretty attractive to a lot of other folks. Maybe the SEC/Pac 14/16 would fancy a solid football school in this market? Then the Big 12 has a reason to worry, right?

 

[Dogfrog]

QUOTE(Limey Frog @ Apr 18 2010, 04:23 PM) [snapback]546411[/snapback]
TCU may not exactly "deliver" the DFW market to a Big 12 conference that already dominates it, but they might invite us to replace a team that left just to make sure we don't bring any other conference in here. Big 12 has no reason to worry about TCU in the MWC, but if we get a general shift toward 14 or 16 team conferences then TCU and the DFW market is going to look pretty attractive to a lot of other folks. Maybe the SEC/Pac 14/16 would fancy a solid football school in this market? Then the Big 12 has a reason to worry, right?


This would be one main reason Big 12 would invite TCU - to keep other conferences out of their playpen. Any BCS conference would love to have an affiliate in Texas due to TV sets and Texas high school football players.

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(Frog Attack II @ Apr 18 2010, 02:32 PM) [snapback]546384[/snapback]
Besides, to me, if the B10 expansion comes at the expense of the Big East, who else is left there if they go to 16 (assuming it's Rutgers, Uconn, Pitt, WVU, and Syracuse)? Big East would be done & the Big 10 would lock down practically all of the NorthEast & of course the midwest. Enter the MWC.....



If (still a big if) the Big 10 goes all the way to 16, it'll be at the expense of both the Big East and Big 12. UConn and WVU aren't on the Big 10's radar. If they take 5, it'll be ND (they'll be forced into it) plus 2 from the Big 12 (Neb, KU or MU) and 2 from the Big East (Syr, Rutgers, Pitt). If the trend is towards 16 team super conferences, the remainder of the Big East probably end up in the ACC (because the SEC would be raiding THEM at some point). The only fly in the ointment in a 16 team super conference scenario is what happens west of the Mississippi. There will be too many teams for 1 Western conference and not enough for 2. Somebody - several of them - likely get left without a chair when the music stops.

 

[Cougar/Frog]

I think the music stops when the remains of the Big 12 (likely Tech, Baylor, KU, K St, Iowa St., and Okie Lite) get together with whatever remains of the MWC, plus a few choice teams from CUSA and WAC (Boise, Houston, Fresno, SMU) to form a new AQ conference.

The New Big 12(16)/Mountain and Plains Conference would be a pretty decent conference, just lacking in some major names. TCU would be the standard bearer in football for the conference.....

I would prefer if Baylor got left out of the mix so it could find a conference equal to its quality (maybe a new SWC with Rice, UTEP, North Texas, plus all the schools planning on moving up: UT-San Antonio, Texas State, SFA, etc...)

 

[Opintel]

QUOTE(Cougar/Frog @ Apr 18 2010, 10:11 PM) [snapback]546480[/snapback]
I think the music stops when the remains of the Big 12 (likely Tech, Baylor, KU, K St, Iowa St., and Okie Lite) get together with whatever remains of the MWC, plus a few choice teams from CUSA and WAC (Boise, Houston, Fresno, SMU) to form a new AQ conference.

The New Big 12(16)/Mountain and Plains Conference would be a pretty decent conference, just lacking in some major names. TCU would be the standard bearer in football for the conference.....

I would prefer if Baylor got left out of the mix so it could find a conference equal to its quality (maybe a new SWC with Rice, UTEP, North Texas, plus all the schools planning on moving up: UT-San Antonio, Texas State, SFA, etc...)

I like the name "Mountain and Plains Conference (MPC). Not sure about the mix of teams (that's what is fun about these discussions!). This should be a topic to get us through next few weeks/months.

I believe TCU is just too good to be ignored or diminished any longer. Remember the amount of $$$ generated out there on "Hells half-acre". :biggrin:

 

[desertkid]

QUOTE(FrogsFanatic @ Apr 18 2010, 05:01 AM) [snapback]546215[/snapback]
my uncle is Tim Weiser (Deputy Commissioner) and heres the list he said for likely additons/replacements

1. TCU
2. BYU
3. Colorado State
4. Houston

Keep in mind...BYU will NEVER play on sunday. That limits them to the MWC and WAC. Any of the BCS conferences will not accept that because there is too much TV revenue on Sunday (not so much with football, but with basketball, and other sports).

Until BYU changes their philosophy about Sunday, they will never be considered by a BCS conference.

 

[froginaustin]

QUOTE(desertkid @ Apr 19 2010, 09:16 AM) [snapback]546627[/snapback]
. . .
Until BYU changes their philosophy about Sunday, they will never be considered by a BCS conference.

If BYU is not considered by an autobid conference, I'd be shocked if it was for the no-Sunday-play rule. Any conference can do what the WAC/MWC did/does. Hire an Administrative Assistant for the Assistant Administrative Commissioner, whose job would be to keep the scheduling straight so that the conference plays on Sunday when it has an opportunity, without BYU having to compromise on its rules.

I would think BYU would have to be a very valuable "property" in a massive realignment into superconferences scenario, just because they have a national following and a whole bunch of alumni, both actual and t-shirt.

 

[Cougar/Frog]

The Sunday play is a minor issue and one that the Big 12 will care little about in its quest for money. BYU was on the Big 12 short-list back in the beginning before Baylor got in. BYU is major program with a big stadium, largest private university in the country, national name, can bring fans anywhere in the country, and with a strong support of a religion with some 6 million members in the USA.

It put it simply, BYU has been the MWC's most valuable asset since the conference formation was the WAC's most valuable asset before that. Utah could leave the conference and all is well. BYU leaves the conference and run for the hills.

Now, I find it very interesting that TCU is No. 1 on the alleged Big 12 short list. If so, it validates everything TCU has been doing for the last ten years and shows that the Big 12 fears TCU and the MWC cutting into its market share. TCU will not be going to the Big Ten or Pac-10, but TCU, like BYU, is a very valuable commodity these days. If the SEC wants to go to 16, TCU would be on that short list as well (3rd choice in Texas after UT and A&M)

 

[Portland Frog]

QUOTE(Cougar/Frog @ Apr 19 2010, 03:42 PM) [snapback]546651[/snapback]
The Sunday play is a minor issue and one that the Big 12 will care little about in its quest for money. BYU was on the Big 12 short-list back in the beginning before Baylor got in. BYU is major program with a big stadium, largest private university in the country, national name, can bring fans anywhere in the country, and with a strong support of a religion with some 6 million members in the USA.

It put it simply, BYU has been the MWC's most valuable asset since the conference formation was the WAC's most valuable asset before that. Utah could leave the conference and all is well. BYU leaves the conference and run for the hills.

Now, I find it very interesting that TCU is No. 1 on the alleged Big 12 short list. If so, it validates everything TCU has been doing for the last ten years and shows that the Big 12 fears TCU and the MWC cutting into its market share. TCU will not be going to the Big Ten or Pac-10, but TCU, like BYU, is a very valuable commodity these days. If the SEC wants to go to 16, TCU would be on that short list as well (3rd choice in Texas after UT and A&M)


If the Big 10 expands to 16, the only reason that would make sense for them to do so would be to cut into an area where they currently don't have any exposure i.e. into Texas, or the NY market. Why else would they expand to 16? To simply add more teams in areas they already have exposure?

It seems the eventual size of the Big 10 is the key piece to all of this. The Big 10, with their huge TV contract, will cherry pick who they want, where they want. All the other conferences will follow. It won't be the other way around. The Big 12, Pac 10, etc will be scrambling after the Big 10 moves. If money drives the process, it has to be this way. The Big 10 has the most clout, with the largest TV contract.

 

[stevenewilson]

QUOTE(Dogfrog @ Apr 18 2010, 07:05 PM) [snapback]546437[/snapback]
This would be one main reason Big 12 would invite TCU - to keep other conferences out of their playpen. Any BCS conference would love to have an affiliate in Texas due to TV sets and Texas high school football players.


Not to mention recruiting - there is a lot of talent in north Texas and the metroplex.

 

[desertkid]

QUOTE(Cougar/Frog @ Apr 19 2010, 03:42 PM) [snapback]546651[/snapback]
The Sunday play is a minor issue and one that the Big 12 will care little about in its quest for money. BYU was on the Big 12 short-list back in the beginning before Baylor got in. BYU is major program with a big stadium, largest private university in the country, national name, can bring fans anywhere in the country, and with a strong support of a religion with some 6 million members in the USA.

It put it simply, BYU has been the MWC's most valuable asset since the conference formation was the WAC's most valuable asset before that. Utah could leave the conference and all is well. BYU leaves the conference and run for the hills.

If you are correct, and the 'Sunday play' is not an issue, the MWC as we know it maybe done! BYU-Utah fit perfectly into the PAC-10 model! Look at how all the schools are grouped - UA/ASU, UCLA/USC, Cal/Stanford, etc! BYU-Utah - one flight/two games (all sports except football).

I still think the Sunday thing IS an issue - That's why BYU and Utah aren't in the PAC-10 today (I know I just contradicted myself!).

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(desertkid @ Apr 19 2010, 12:57 PM) [snapback]546775[/snapback]
If you are correct, and the 'Sunday play' is not an issue, the MWC as we know it maybe done! BYU-Utah fit perfectly into the PAC-10 model! Look at how all the schools are grouped - UA/ASU, UCLA/USC, Cal/Stanford, etc! BYU-Utah - one flight/two games (all sports except football).

I still think the Sunday thing IS an issue - That's why BYU and Utah aren't in the PAC-10 today (I know I just contradicted myself!).



It's an issue - today.



But if the Big 10 expansion goes nuclear like some are suggesting, that will force a lot of moves that some may not want to make - including the Pac 10 taking whomever they can get to fatten the wallet, other issues be damned.

 

[Portland Frog]

QUOTE(RSF @ Apr 19 2010, 06:00 PM) [snapback]546777[/snapback]
It's an issue - today.
But if the Big 10 expansion goes nuclear like some are suggesting, that will force a lot of moves that some may not want to make - including the Pac 10 taking whomever they can get to fatten the wallet, other issues be damned.


Exactly. The Big 10 going "nuclear" would change the whole landscape and turn TCU into a very attractive option for the Big 12 (to keep the Big 10 or SEC out), the Big 10 (to get in to DFW) or the SEC (see the Big 10). But that only happens if the Big 10 goes nuclear. If not, forget it. The Big 12 and SEC won't be threatened.

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(Portland Frog @ Apr 19 2010, 01:07 PM) [snapback]546784[/snapback]
Exactly. The Big 10 going "nuclear" would change the whole landscape and turn TCU into a very attractive option for the Big 12 (to keep the Big 10 or SEC out), the Big 10 (to get in to DFW) or the SEC (see the Big 10). But that only happens if the Big 10 goes nuclear. If not, forget it. The Big 12 and SEC won't be threatened.



Assuming the Big 12 survives.......'cuz if the Big 10 goes to 16, the SEC may be tempted to do the same to keep up. And among their 1st phone calls will be to the Lone Star State. And I'm not referring to TCU.


That's when it'll start to get ugly.

 

[PurpleBlood87]

QUOTE(desertkid @ Apr 19 2010, 12:57 PM) [snapback]546775[/snapback]
If you are correct, and the 'Sunday play' is not an issue, the MWC as we know it maybe done! BYU-Utah fit perfectly into the PAC-10 model! Look at how all the schools are grouped - UA/ASU, UCLA/USC, Cal/Stanford, etc! BYU-Utah - one flight/two games (all sports except football).

I still think the Sunday thing IS an issue - That's why BYU and Utah aren't in the PAC-10 today (I know I just contradicted myself!).

It's been mentioned many times that the PAC-10 has no interest in a BYU because of it being a church-oriented school.

 

[Frog75]

QUOTE(FrogsFanatic @ Apr 17 2010, 10:44 PM) [snapback]546205[/snapback]
Big 12 HQ are in Dallas, TCU would be the most likely replacement



Sorry but the Big 12 would only take TCU as a last resort. Location of the conference office means nothing.

 

[Frog75]

QUOTE(Portland Frog @ Apr 19 2010, 12:07 PM) [snapback]546784[/snapback]
Exactly. The Big 10 going "nuclear" would change the whole landscape and turn TCU into a very attractive option for the Big 12 (to keep the Big 10 or SEC out), the Big 10 (to get in to DFW) or the SEC (see the Big 10). But that only happens if the Big 10 goes nuclear. If not, forget it. The Big 12 and SEC won't be threatened.



Don't think so....Don't kid yourself the Big10 nor SEC will give TCU a sniff, small private school with small stadium and smaller fan base. Schools the Big12 would invite before TCU would be---

Arkansas --who knows
BYU
Utah
Air Force ..thats right AFA
Houston---recruiting