• The KillerFrogs

Becoming more knowledgeable hoops fans

JogginFrog

Active Member
KF.c has a large number of posters who can discuss the finer points of offensive and defensive football schemes: the 4-2-5, Cover 2, Air Raid, pro style, spread option, and any number of others.

We're woeful at doing the same with college basketball. Game threads and other forum discussion would benefit from more TCU fans (myself included) having a better understanding of sets and strategy. If TCU is going to be something of a basketball school, we need to up our game.

One place to get familiar with college (and pro) hoop X's and O's: https://thebasketballplaybook.com/xs-os-2/

Other suggestions from people who know the game well?
 

Eight

Member
KF.c has a large number of posters who can discuss the finer points of offensive and defensive football schemes: the 4-2-5, Cover 2, Air Raid, pro style, spread option, and any number of others.

We're woeful at doing the same with college basketball. Game threads and other forum discussion would benefit from more TCU fans (myself included) having a better understanding of sets and strategy. If TCU is going to be something of a basketball school, we need to up our game.

One place to get familiar with college (and pro) hoop X's and O's: https://thebasketballplaybook.com/xs-os-2/

Other suggestions from people who know the game well?

the link is nice thank you ,but you don't need a link to understand shooting 6 of 21 from 3-point line is not good, shooting 14 of 25 from the free throw line is not good, having more turnovers than your opponent is not good, continually getting caught over committing and not being in good defensive position resulting in numerous back door lay ups and interior break downs is not good, lazy passes and falling down while driving is not good, and failing to feed the post who has pinned the smaller defender on his hip is not good.

fortunately i don't think we see noi continue to shoot 1 of 7, the free throws are a concern, there is no reason for the careless handling of the ball by older more experienced players such as robinson, bane, and miller, perimeter defense was an issue last year and continues this year, and samuel is getting more and more confident each game while alok is struggling with the upped competition and the rule changes.

all of these means this is a team in progress, i don't see a team that can challenge kansas, but they can finish in the top part of a very good conference, and dixon and the staff have some things to iron out before b12 play.
 

tcumaniac

Full Member
I'd like to see more RPO, Robinson up top, Miller in motion, Bane going deep out of the slot
Agreed. Also would like to see some wild Frog with Yuat Alok and more swing passes out wide to Fisher and Kendric Davis. Maybe the occasional short side option too.
 

JogginFrog

Active Member
the link is nice thank you ,but you don't need a link to understand shooting 6 of 21 from 3-point line is not good, shooting 14 of 25 from the free throw line is not good, having more turnovers than your opponent is not good, continually getting caught over committing and not being in good defensive position resulting in numerous back door lay ups and interior break downs is not good, lazy passes and falling down while driving is not good, and failing to feed the post who has pinned the smaller defender on his hip is not good.

fortunately i don't think we see noi continue to shoot 1 of 7, the free throws are a concern, there is no reason for the careless handling of the ball by older more experienced players such as robinson, bane, and miller, perimeter defense was an issue last year and continues this year, and samuel is getting more and more confident each game while alok is struggling with the upped competition and the rule changes.

Pointing out that over-committing leads to back-door lay-ups is a start.

But the rest is a good summary of our current game threads: "Man, we suck at shooting free throws"...or 3-pointers, or ball handling. We can do better.

Is failing to feed the post an issue of court vision? Over-commitment to pass progression in the offensive scheme? Not looking to make an entry pass off a ball screen?
 

DickBumpastache

Active Member
It's a lot easier to diagnose and digest what is happening in a basketball game on TV because you can see all 10 players at once. Way too much happens out-of-frame in a football game, especially with today's pass-heavy offenses.

We're also not a pressing or zone-reliant team, so honestly there's not much to break down. The fact is we're just not very good at the moment. Hopefully getting Fisher back healthy and knocking the rust off of Noi will change that.
 

Eight

Member
Pointing out that over-committing leads to back-door lay-ups is a start.

But the rest is a good summary of our current game threads: "Man, we suck at shooting free throws"...or 3-pointers, or ball handling. We can do better.

Is failing to feed the post an issue of court vision? Over-commitment to pass progression in the offensive scheme? Not looking to make an entry pass off a ball screen?

tcu was a bad perimeter defensive team last year and not very good this year. why? a number of reasons, but a great deal of defense in basketball is a matter of committing to it.

it sucks especially on the perimeter to continually have to through screens, stay down in proper defensive position, and unfortunately we live in a day and age where there is an emphasis on offense and you see a number of players rest on defense.

you can't play defense standing straight up or people are going to go right past you and yet look at guys like bane and mayan out on the perimeter. i damn well know dixon and his staff harp on this all the time, but watch any game today and how many players do you see doing these things and i just don't mean tcu.

in regards to feeding the post i think that is a byproduct of the modern game versus the game 20 years ago. every damn tcu guard and wing player aside from jaylen would be on the bench next to my high school coach for not going to the first option in his offense which was the low post down on the block.

heck, go to a high school game today and kid's don't know how to properly position themselves in the post let alone call for the ball. then we have the math guys telling us to shoot 3's because we can miss more of those and still outscore the 2's.

i don't know what dixon wants the frogs to do in that situation. i just know frogs had a big advantage inside and they were happy to fire away from behind the arc instead of forcing lipscomb to make a decision on who they were going to defend. look at what happened when tcu put miller down low. he killed it and if we see that earlier in the game it forces the defense to choose to either allow that or fall back and makes the outside shots easier.

funny thing is just like football. there are some very basic concepts in basketball that apply in any generation. solid perimeter defense, no easy baskets off turnovers and put backs, moving the ball with passes over the course of a game is more effective than creating everything off the dribble etc.... i don't care if you are golden state or nova it isn't the 3's it is the little things and right now tcu is doing nearly enough of the little things
 

JogginFrog

Active Member
Eight, thanks for the observations. Agreed on the importance of fundamentals (and the same is true for football, as you have pointed out--wrap up, protect the ball, footwork).

From what I read, the numbers from D1 games point to matching your offensive system to your personnel (and that of your opponents). See https://shottracker.com/articles/ball-reversals-or-paint-touches. If you have a great isolation player, clear out and let him work. If you have a big front line, work the post. Anything else, you better be picking and moving.

But across all teams, the numbers agree with your traditional first option: Going inside. Look at the points-per-possession next to the all-blue bar chart. Getting the ball into the paint produces by far the highest scoring efficiency, followed by good ball movement.
 

TheFDN

Active Member
tcu was a bad perimeter defensive team last year and not very good this year. why? a number of reasons, but a great deal of defense in basketball is a matter of committing to it.

it sucks especially on the perimeter to continually have to through screens, stay down in proper defensive position, and unfortunately we live in a day and age where there is an emphasis on offense and you see a number of players rest on defense.

you can't play defense standing straight up or people are going to go right past you and yet look at guys like bane and mayan out on the perimeter. i damn well know dixon and his staff harp on this all the time, but watch any game today and how many players do you see doing these things and i just don't mean tcu.

in regards to feeding the post i think that is a byproduct of the modern game versus the game 20 years ago. every damn tcu guard and wing player aside from jaylen would be on the bench next to my high school coach for not going to the first option in his offense which was the low post down on the block.

heck, go to a high school game today and kid's don't know how to properly position themselves in the post let alone call for the ball. then we have the math guys telling us to shoot 3's because we can miss more of those and still outscore the 2's.

i don't know what dixon wants the frogs to do in that situation. i just know frogs had a big advantage inside and they were happy to fire away from behind the arc instead of forcing lipscomb to make a decision on who they were going to defend. look at what happened when tcu put miller down low. he killed it and if we see that earlier in the game it forces the defense to choose to either allow that or fall back and makes the outside shots easier.

funny thing is just like football. there are some very basic concepts in basketball that apply in any generation. solid perimeter defense, no easy baskets off turnovers and put backs, moving the ball with passes over the course of a game is more effective than creating everything off the dribble etc.... i don't care if you are golden state or nova it isn't the 3's it is the little things and right now tcu is doing nearly enough of the little things

Good points, especially regarding the post game or lack of. The high school game has become such a permiter game that the basics of low post play are almost lost. I watch three high school games last weekend with several D1 committed kids playing and two highly ranked 6A teams....I saw not one point scored by a kid with his back to the basket. Most points came from permiter shots, or put backs on rebounds. This has been trickling up to the college game for a while and that trend will continue in the foreseeable future. Sad. I miss seeing the importance of low post play being emphasized.
 

JogginFrog

Active Member
On free-throw shooting, I noticed this video contrasting free-throw shooting styles by DeAndre Jordan (42% career) and Kevin Durant (88%).


I knew the bit about launch angle, but foot angle was new to me. Anyone know how many Frogs shoot FTs with feet square vs. angled?
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
On free-throw shooting, I noticed this video contrasting free-throw shooting styles by DeAndre Jordan (42% career) and Kevin Durant (88%).


I knew the bit about launch angle, but foot angle was new to me. Anyone know how many Frogs shoot FTs with feet square vs. angled?


Not sure about angles but at times it does appear that we would be better off shooting free throws with our feet.
 
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Eight

Member
I hear Noi has a nasty backdoor slider

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netty2424

Full Member
KF.c has a large number of posters who can discuss the finer points of offensive and defensive football schemes: the 4-2-5, Cover 2, Air Raid, pro style, spread option, and any number of others.

We're woeful at doing the same with college basketball. Game threads and other forum discussion would benefit from more TCU fans (myself included) having a better understanding of sets and strategy. If TCU is going to be something of a basketball school, we need to up our game.

One place to get familiar with college (and pro) hoop X's and O's: https://thebasketballplaybook.com/xs-os-2/

Other suggestions from people who know the game well?
Lol
 

HG73

Active Member
Why do we worry about this? There's no strategy in BB. Fart around for a while then shoot. Only decision by the coach is: Press? Or not? Like soccer, no strategy or plan whatsoever.
 
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