• The KillerFrogs

#BAYLORTEARS

NovaScotiaFrog

Active Member
Well, he was also paid a big buyout. You'd think based on all the crimes that they wouldn't have had to so that. Hell, schools seemingly will try any angle to not have to pay buyouts.

There was a WHOLE LOT of guilty before being proven innocent and jumping to conclusions in that thing, relative to the football program.
First, Briles got $15 million of the $40 million he was owed. You could just as easily turn around and say "You'd think if he was innocent of all those crimes he wouldn't just accept 38 cents on the dollar." Brian Kelly sure isn't, to use a recent example.

Second, most schools aren't dealing with sexual assault suits that weren't fully settled until 2023. If I remember, Baylor settled with Briles pretty quickly after he was fired. I'm guessing they were willing to pay him to not drag the thing out and end up paying more in legal fees.

Third, if you are arguing that Briles getting a settlement means he's innocent, what does it say that Baylor ended up paying more than a dozen victims settlements as well?

We really shouldn't defend Briles. His bad actions are well established and undisputed. There's a reason a guy with his record hasn't gotten a job for a decade, and the few times that a team has tried to bring him on (e.g the TigerCats in the CFL, then Grambling) the backlash is so severe that they end up backing out immediately.
 
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Wexahu

Full Member
First, Briles got $15 million of the $40 million he was owed. You could just as easily turn around and say "You'd think if he was innocent of all those crimes he wouldn't just accept 38 cents on the dollar." Brian Kelly sure isn't, to use a recent example.

Second, most schools aren't dealing with sexual assault suits that weren't fully settled until 2023. If I remember, Baylor settled with Briles pretty quickly after he was fired. I'm guessing they were willing to pay him to not drag the thing out and end up paying him more.

Third, if you are arguing that Briles getting a settlement means he's innocent, what does it say that Baylor ended up paying more than a dozen victims settlements as well?

We really shouldn't defend Briles. His bad actions are well established and undisputed. There's a reason a guy with his record hasn't gotten a job for a decade, and the few times that a team has tried to bring him on (e.g the TigerCats in the CFL, then Grambling) the backlash is so severe that they end up backing out immediately.
I don't know all the facts. I don't really think anyone does.

It got to the point where public perception was that everyone on that team was dang near a gang rapist, or at least a [ Baylor accusations ] apologist or something. Lots and lots of accusations, very little in terms of anything else.
 

NovaScotiaFrog

Active Member
I don't know all the facts. I don't really think anyone does.
Again, the facts of the situation are well established and a matter of public record. From my observation it seems like you're a pretty meticulous and analytical dude, I'm surprised you aren't more familiar with this.
It got to the point where public perception was that everyone on that team was dang near a gang rapist, or at least a [ Baylor accusations ] apologist or something. Lots and lots of accusations, very little in terms of anything els
No, not everyone on the team was a gang rapist, but the truth of what Briles and his staff did to protect the ones on the team that were is bad enough.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Again, the facts of the situation are well established and a matter of public record. From my observation it seems like you're a pretty meticulous and analytical dude, I'm surprised you aren't more familiar with this.

No, not everyone on the team was a gang rapist, but the truth of what Briles and his staff did to protect the ones on the team that were is bad enough.
Where can I find them? People have made a big deal out of that Pepper Hamilton report, but from everything I've read, it's kind of just a bunch of vague references to lack of institutional control, etc with very little detail on what actually happened. I know some people made a big deal out of KB asking a recruit if he liked white girls, but man, people getting worked up about that is dumb. I bet every major program has good looking white girls that escort recruits around campus, it's just what they do. I know they did at TCU when I was there. Why do they do that, and is that wrong?

I hated that team and Briles, but it got to the point where I thought it got pretty unfair.
 

NovaScotiaFrog

Active Member
Where can I find them? People have made a big deal out of that Pepper Hamilton report, but from everything I've read, it's kind of just a bunch of vague references to lack of institutional control, etc with very little detail on what actually happened. I know some people made a big deal out of KB asking a recruit if he liked white girls, but man, people getting worked up about that is dumb. I bet every major program has good looking white girls that escort recruits around campus, it's just what they do. I know they did at TCU when I was there. Why do they do that, and is that wrong?

I hated that team and Briles, but it got to the point where I thought it got pretty unfair.
No, the Pepper Hamilton report was not simply "vague references to lack of institutional control", it explicitly stated that the football program headed by Art Briles chose not to report sexual assault, either covering it up and/or attempting to handle it in-house in violation of both Baylor policy and US Federal law:
Baylor failed to take appropriate action to respond to reports of sexual assault and dating violence reportedly committed by football players. The choices made by football staff and athletics leadership, in some instances, posed a risk to campus safety and the integrity of the University. In certain instances, including reports of a sexual assault by multiple football players, athletics and football personnel affirmatively chose not to report sexual violence and dating violence to an appropriate administrator outside of athletics. In those instances, football coaches or staff met directly with a complainant and/or a parent of a complainant and did not report the misconduct. As a result, no action was taken to support complainants, fairly and impartially evaluate the conduct under Title IX, address identified cultural concerns within the football program, or protect campus safety once aware of a potential pattern of sexual violence by multiple football players.

In addition, some football coaches and staff took improper steps in response to
disclosures of sexual assault or dating violence that precluded the University from fulfilling its
legal obligations. Football staff conducted their own untrained internal inquiries, outside of
policy, which improperly discredited complainants and denied them the right to a fair, impartial
and informed investigation, interim measures or processes promised under University policy.
In
some cases, internal steps gave the illusion of responsiveness to complainants but failed to
provide a meaningful institutional response under Title IX. Further, because reports were not
shared outside of athletics, the University missed critical opportunities to impose appropriate
disciplinary action that would have removed offenders from campus and possibly precluded
future acts of sexual violence against Baylor students.
In some instances, the football program
dismissed players for unspecified team violations and assisted them in transferring to other
schools. As a result, some football coaches and staff abdicated responsibilities under Title IX
and Clery; to student welfare; to the health and safety of complainants; and to Baylor’s
institutional values.

In addition to the failures related to sexual assault and dating violence, individuals
within the football program actively sought to maintain internal control over discipline for other
forms of misconduct. Athletics personnel failed to recognize the conflict of interest in roles and
risk to campus safety by insulating athletes from student conduct processes. Football coaches
and staff took affirmative steps to maintain internal control over discipline of players and to
actively divert cases from the student conduct or criminal processes. In some cases, football
coaches and staff had inappropriate involvement in disciplinary and criminal matters or engaged
in improper conduct that reinforced an overall perception that football was above the rules, and
that there was no culture of accountability for misconduct.


The football program also operates an internal system of discipline, separate from
University processes, which is fundamentally inconsistent with the mindset required for effective
Title IX implementation, and has resulted in a lack of parity vis-à-vis the broader student
population. This informal system of discipline involves multiple coaches and administrators,
relies heavily upon individual judgment in lieu of clear standards for discipline, and has resulted
in conduct being ignored or players being dismissed from the team based on an informal and
subjective process. The ad hoc internal system of discipline lacks protocols for consistency with
University policy and is wholly undocumented.
The football program’s separate system of
internal discipline reinforces the perception that rules applicable to other students are not
applicable to football players, improperly insulates football players from appropriate disciplinary
consequences, and puts students, the program, and the institution at risk of future misconduct. It
is also inconsistent with institutional reporting obligations.

The football program failed to identify and maintain controls over known risks,
and unreasonably accepted known risks. Leadership in football and the athletics department did
not set the tone, establish a policy or practice for reporting and documenting significant
misconduct.
The lack of reporting expectations resulted in a lack of accountability for player
misconduct and employee misconduct. Further, no attempt was made to understand the root
causes of behavior or steps necessary to prevent its recurrence. In addition, in one instance, in
response to concerns about misconduct by football players that could contribute to a hostile
environment, an academic program that required interaction with the football program
improperly restricted educational opportunities for students, rather than take steps to eliminate a
potential hostile environment.

There are plenty of cases that were adjudicated to show this: Tevin Elliot, Sam Uwkuachu, and Devin Chafin being the most notable.
 
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Mean Purple

Active Member
As for Rhoads, I hope it’s just a minor issue. Hopefully no family issues.

Not making excuses for too much drinking, but does BU allow alcohol in that big club/dining facility above the end zone?
Would think not, but a lot of people who work at that school are no stranger to a glass of wine. Seen them around town.
I don’t know Rhoads, but give a guy a fair shake.
 

82 Frog Fever

Active Member
No, the Pepper Hamilton report was not simply "vague references to lack of institutional control", it explicitly stated that the football program headed by Art Briles chose not to report sexual assault, either covering it up and/or attempting to handle it in-house in violation of both Baylor policy and US Federal law:


There are plenty of cases that were adjudicated to show this: Tevin Elliot, Sam Uwkuachu, and Devin Chafin being the most notable.
My problem with this whole deal is Pepper Hamilton seemed to leave everything too high level, vague, and non-specific. They talk about the football program like it is some vast institution, instead of a collection of a dozen or so coaches that are responsible for everyone’s safety and security.
Where are the names? If there is a high level of confidence in the report, where are the names and events. There should be a very specific report of who, what, where, when, & why placed in the public view.
When Baylor is concerned, why do the specifics always seem to remain behind a veil of secrecy and claims of Need to Know.
Resultantly, everyone who had anything to do with the program has their reputation trashed, and the 5 or so that were truly derelict get a hand slap.
 

NovaScotiaFrog

Active Member
My problem with this whole deal is Pepper Hamilton seemed to leave everything too high level, vague, and non-specific. They talk about the football program like it is some vast institution, instead of a collection of a dozen or so coaches that are responsible for everyone’s safety and security.
Where are the names? If there is a high level of confidence in the report, where are the names and events. There should be a very specific report of who, what, where, when, & why placed in the public view.
When Baylor is concerned, why do the specifics always seem to remain behind a veil of secrecy and claims of Need to Know.
Resultantly, everyone who had anything to do with the program has their reputation trashed, and the 5 or so that were truly derelict get a hand slap.
As I understand it, the "full" report was more specific and what ultimately cost Briles his job. What was publicly revealed was an executive summary. I agree with you that the full report should have been made public but, you know, they're Baylor.

Either way, as you say it's pretty well understood what that means when they say the football department, football coaches, and especially "leadership in football".
 

DeepEllumFrog

Full Member
Pedophile protector Ken Starr and his merry band of Southern Baptists helping Jeffrey epstein? That tracks with what I've been preaching. Still waiting on over 600 accused Southern Baptist pedophile clergy..... No word from the Southern Baptist convention 5 years

 

Mean Purple

Active Member
No, the Pepper Hamilton report was not simply "vague references to lack of institutional control", it explicitly stated that the football program headed by Art Briles chose not to report sexual assault, either covering it up and/or attempting to handle it in-house in violation of both Baylor policy and US Federal law:


There are plenty of cases that were adjudicated to show this: Tevin Elliot, Sam Uwkuachu, and Devin Chafin being the most notable.
The report addessed the Briles texts. “Those are some bad dudes “
 

froginaustin

Active Member
Where can I find them? People have made a big deal out of that Pepper Hamilton report, but from everything I've read, it's kind of just a bunch of vague references to lack of institutional control, etc with very little detail on what actually happened. I know some people made a big deal out of KB asking a recruit if he liked white girls, but man, people getting worked up about that is dumb. I bet every major program has good looking white girls that escort recruits around campus, it's just what they do. I know they did at TCU when I was there. Why do they do that, and is that wrong?

I hated that team and Briles, but it got to the point where I thought it got pretty unfair.

Ole BU spent millions, or tens of millions, on NDAs.
Pepper Hamilton’s “final report” was delivered orally to a closed meeting of their Board of Trustees. Never reduced to writing. BU was the client, and Pepper did what they were told with the “report” they wrote for their client.
I understand that my cognitive abilities shrink virtually every day— a household member points that out now and then lest it slip my mind along with everything else I’ve forgotten.
But, if I’m even near the truth, reasonable inferences point to institutional guilt, not just “a lack of institutional control” (The most dishonest euphemism I’ve heard particularly in this sort of circumstances — ever).
Of course the references are vague. Think of the fortunes and exertions spent and undertaken to make them so.
 

Frogenstein

Full Member
As for Rhoads, I hope it’s just a minor issue. Hopefully no family issues.

Not making excuses for too much drinking, but does BU allow alcohol in that big club/dining facility above the end zone?
Would think not, but a lot of people who work at that school are no stranger to a glass of wine. Seen them around town.
I don’t know Rhoads, but give a guy a fair shake.
During games and Baylor events there is no alcohol in the stadium club. If you rent it out for a private event (e.g. a wedding reception) then they do allow alcohol.
 

ShadowFrog

Overachieving Frog Hero
We really shouldn't defend Briles. His bad actions are well established and undisputed. There's a reason a guy with his record hasn't gotten a job for a decade
Or just read the book Violated.
I did & passed it on to another KFC member.
Also urged him to sign/date upon completion as I did & pass to another KFC member. That was…5 years ago?

 
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