1. The KillerFrogs

Basketball Program is back to Trent Johnson era levels

Discussion in 'Scott & Wes Frog Fan Forum' started by LVH, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. For now, I don't think it's ridiculous to look at that as possibly being a one year aberration. Since basketball teams are so small, 6 guys leaving constitutes half the team. If 6 football players leave the program this spring for various reasons then no one will bat an eye.

    If we have another mass exodus, though, similar to last year then I don't think there's any excusing it.
    Francis Xav and Boomhauer like this.
  2. You honestly watch us play and see a well-coached team? Or are you just clinging to the idea that Dixon has done ok in the past so that means if his team plays poorly he just needs better players?

    I just don't see how anyone can watch our games and think, man, this coach really has this team well-drilled and well-prepared.
    researchfrog likes this.
  3. Again, when we've had better players recently, we've seen better basketball.

    I'm not nearly well versed enough in the intricacies of basketball to identify which teams are "well drilled" and neither are you.
  4. I bet the absolutism you use on every topic works well in front of Judge and the jury
  5. The issue is recruiting and keeping the good players on the team. JD lost his entire recruiting class last year and the two guards we lost are deeply missed. The concern for me is it looks like JD has lost this year's team. Every time we go on the road it is a total [ Cumbie’s red zone playcalling ] show. And that is on the coach. Period.

    The guys have looked absolutely lost on offense. Worse, they quit.last night. A lot of teams are struggling to score this year, but the good ones keep fighting. It is called heart and I don't see that on our team right now.

    I knew this was going to be a down year. I can deal with that, but watching this team quit is upsetting. How can the newcomers next year change that? That is the big concern for me. Last year was a disappointment, but it was not a failure despite what a lot of fans here think. But it looks like we will finish below .500 now. How can JD right the ship and get things going forward again? Because, like it or not, he will be our coach next year.
    BrewingFrog likes this.
  6. Got em! WOW!
  7. Last night the team just quit. Rolled over. Gave up. Threw in the towel. Etcetera. (/Yul)

    It seems to me that we are at Trent-level team morale. Yeah, they won 4 Conference games so far. I ask, however, show me that team that beat Tech in Fort Worth that had confidence, will power, and spirit, and compare with last night's squad. What happened? What changed in such a drastic way that a team that showed promise and spunk suddenly collapsed in a heap?

    There's trouble. Trouble right here in River City...
  8. I will come down harder than JD might deserve, but what the [ Cumbie’s red zone playcalling ] is going on? Even Trent Johnson didn't lose by 46 in 4 years of Big12 play and he inherited way worse than JD. Not to mention he was playing in old DMC and a high school stadium. JD does not appear to have any creation on offense. It has been 3 years of us dribbling around until the end of the shot clock and then hoping it goes in. We haven't shot free throws well in a decade. The guys can't shoot or play above the rim. It is a horrible product of basketball and it starts with JD. Add to the fact that somehow baylor can be #1 in basketball and we are losing by almost 50.

    OK that felt good to get off my chest. Now JD has the opportunity with a new class next year to show some improvement or out the door he must go. We have great facilities in DFW and pay well. I am realistic in the fact that I am not sure who we would get, but what is going on right now isn't working.
    Baja Frog and Wog68 like this.
  9. It definitely wasn’t sarcasm and if you feel this way then I thought you were a more reasonable person. Just to clarify, I’m suggesting people not get worked up so much and you think that opinion is less valid than those that call for coaches to be fired at any time things don’t go well? Maybe my suggestion is not constructive but neither is flying off the handle over everything.

    I’m not going to change so deal or ignore. Those are two options at your disposal. I suppose you could choose a third and try to turn this into some bigger argument but that won’t happen because I’m not terribly interested in any way.
    tcudoc likes this.
  10. So on one side there's me holding up the fact that we will very likely win at least as many B12 games THIS YEAR with Dixon's worst team as Johnson did in his 4 years combined.

    Then on the other side there's you talking about spunk and trouble in River City to back up the point that we'd be better off going back to the Johnson years.

    I gotta hand it to you. You win. I can't argue with "trouble right here in River City."
  11. Where is Robert Preston when you need him? (Although I thought he was best in S.O.B.)

    Sigh. Putting words in other mouths is a lousy way to argue.

    The Trent days are gone, thankfully. The JMFD days are here, and ongoing. That 4 B12 wins may well be the only 4 we get. What was seeming to be a far more promising season than anyone thought is collapsing. In flames. Into the swamp. Why?
  12. And that is why he gets paid $3MM per year. That's a lifetime of money for the majority of the country. This isn't a corporate job where you can CYA everything, he's paid a ridiculous amount to get results. What's the difference in 5-13 and 2-16? Basically nothing. Keep the money, pay some young up and comer and see what happens. Maybe it all burns to the ground, but the ground isn't THAT far away as it is.
    researchfrog likes this.
  13. Yep, and on a broader argument, we have three very highly paid coaches in the 3 major sports who in recent years have underperformed and a situation where I'm not sure the AD has the power to really challenge them or do anything about it. Not calling for firings yet but it really isn't a great foundation for really successful programs when your AD is probably the 4th most powerful individual in your athletic department and you've got several really highly compensated, almost tenured, coaches.

    A little fear for your job is never a bad thing and I wonder if any of the Big 3 ever feel that kind of pressure.
    6Frog6 and Salfrog like this.
  14. #94 Atomic Frawg, Feb 11, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
    Honesty, when we got so excited just to beat Tech, at home, I thought something was wrong with the team. Beating ranked teams should be like kissing your sister by now. We rush the court.
    I can't think of a category that we've progressed in over the course of the season. Seriously. That bothers me, and it's an indictment on the coaches. Just give me growth...in anything.

    Fort Worth WILL support TCU basketball; I've seen it - I'm Tubbs era. But Fort Worth won't support mediocrity in basketball. Last night's game hurt me. That wasn't the type effort associated with the TCU way. It almost makes you want to not show up the next home game to let them know that type effort won't be tolerated.

    Meanwhile, the women are busting their behinds and leaving it on the court every game, resulting in their best B12 season ever, and can't get any support. Things are just embarrassing this sports year on so many levels.
    Wog68, Salfrog and BrewingFrog like this.
  15. I'm personally of the opinion that Patterson has basically a lifetime contract unless he goes full Briles. What he's brought to the University ($$, students, etc) is many multiples of what he has been paid and he deserves to see his way out.

    Dixon and Schloss definitely don't have that status for me. Both of them were gone and somehow drug back to the mix. And of the two of them, Schloss has like 10x more wiggle room. He's paid way less and has produced infinitely better results. I think Dixon is a 50/50 toss up after this season.
    RollToad likes this.
  16. Agree on GP for the most part but I don't think he has quite the fire in his belly that he used to and I'm a little worried that it's kind of going to be a slow leak until he steps down. I'm indifferent on Schloss because baseball is a distant third as far as profile of the sport but I thought the circumstances that brought him back here were strange to say the least. As you might expect, if they let Dixon go tomorrow I don't think it would be a bad thing, mainly because I think he's a below-average coach.

    If any three of the guys left tomorrow, with the kind of $ we pay we could go out and get damn good coaches to come here, and I'm not sure many people understand that. If a coach wants to be gone, let him be gone, do not put a full court press on him to get him to stay.
    6Frog6 and Salfrog like this.
  17. What an unbelievably absurd response to what he posted. I mean I’m not even remotely surprised that YOU posted it but absurd nonetheless.
  18. I've watched kids with all the talent in the world flame out spectacularly because they simply didn't want to play/ do what the coach wanted them to. They were capable...but didn't realize the extent of what they were going to be asked to do when they came on board. Ego is a powerful thing.
    Chico Dusty likes this.
  19. So what exactly is your belief? You said earlier that getting back to the Trent days would be an improvement. Now you're saying thank goodness those days are gone. You're all over the place here.

    Or am I just not nearly sophisticated enough to keep up with your argument?
  20. Don't understand the purpose of debating these coaches' salaries. The market value of P5 coaches in major sports is not something unique to TCU. This is simply the price of having a coach with any experience and any history of success.

    I don't get a refund check in the mail if we bring in a coach that's making $2 million per year instead of 3 so what the hell do I care how much the guy gets paid. There's no salary cap. If this is the coach the AD wants then this is the cost to keep him.

    And if we are somehow super concerned about the University spending money then what about the cost associated with firing a coach under contract? I also don't care about that, btw, just saying this is the cost associated with competing in major college athletics.

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