• The KillerFrogs

Attendance and visiting fans.

smufrogger

Active Member
Maybe beating a dead horse but in the subject of opposing fans-
Checking on stub hub I see over 3k of tickets for sale for each tcu home game. I haven’t gone and looked at all other big 12 schools but that number seems very high in relations to the overall seating capacity of Amon Carter.
Opposing fans can buy nearly 10% of the seating just through stub hub. I don’t see that with the other schools stadiums. Not even with Baylor who has about 2k for sale for games.

How do we fix that? Would tcu be willing to ask the fans that sell all their tickets to release them? I’m guessing thry wouldn’t as it would lower our season ticket sales??
 

HFrog12

Full Member
So 2k for baylor vs. 3k for TCU? Doesn't seem like that big of a difference. Add in demographics of number of alumni then it looks pretty standard. TCU is what it is right now and attendance is a problem everywhere. I harp on it as much as anyone but our fans are kind of beating a dead horse now. Tons of complaints about +4 system but at the end of the day the demand just isn't there. Frog fan witch about the +4 and then won't even go buy $35 tickets on stubhub. I am usually fighting like hell to find someone to give mine to when I can't go.

My only solution is for TCU to bite some kind of financial bullet and offer a buyback program of +4 tickets. As we all know, there are a bunch of people who don't use their extra tickets but there really isn't much incentive to relinquish since they already sunk a bunch into donations. Give those original +4 people the chance to sell back to the school and then offer them to non-+4 priority point ranks. Then everyone in the system moves on up. This is just high level thinking. I don't think it would go as smoothly as I have explained, but it's a hypothesis nonetheless.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Maybe beating a dead horse but in the subject of opposing fans-
Checking on stub hub I see over 3k of tickets for sale for each tcu home game. I haven’t gone and looked at all other big 12 schools but that number seems very high in relations to the overall seating capacity of Amon Carter.
Opposing fans can buy nearly 10% of the seating just through stub hub. I don’t see that with the other schools stadiums. Not even with Baylor who has about 2k for sale for games.

How do we fix that? Would tcu be willing to ask the fans that sell all their tickets to release them? I’m guessing thry wouldn’t as it would lower our season ticket sales??

The only way to "fix" it is to schedule better opponents and have good teams. The first thing is somewhat within our control but I don't think GP is going to want to bring really good non-conference opponents here on a regular basis. The second thing you just gotta hope we do well and win a lot of games.

But an 11:00 start against the conference bottom feeder in 90 degree temp at kickoff (and steadily rising throughout the game)? No freaking chance for a good crowd. None. And the stands at OU and UT would be about 1/3 full in the second half of a 38-0 game under those same conditions, it's just not enjoyable watching a lopsided football game while basically sitting in an oven. Granted, I had some drink in me but nothing out of hand and I stayed until late in the 4th Qtr, and it wasn't until Sunday morning that I started feeling normal again.
 

Leap Frog

Full Member
Is there a chance that some very rich folks buy extra tickets with all their points, and then don't sell them?
The reason I ask is that it seems to be an ego thing who has the most points so as to get the luxuries.
Maybe a dumb question, but that could account for empty seats-- some rich folks got that way by being smart.
 

Bob Sugar

Active Member
I love how everyone acts this this is an issue isolated to TCU.

Stanford playing a ranked Oregon team on 9/21/19:
upload_2019-9-30_15-1-10.png

USC about to run onto the field on a Friday night against #10 Utah:
upload_2019-9-30_15-10-55.png


Miami doing Miami things
upload_2019-9-30_15-25-12.png

Vandy was packed with LSU fans earlier this year
upload_2019-9-30_15-27-20.png

Empty seats when CU hosted ranked Nebraska
upload_2019-9-30_15-31-50.png

Just prior to opening kickoff Boston College on opening weekend vs Virginia Tech
upload_2019-9-30_15-36-25.png



I am sure I could find more examples from this year with little effort
 

Eight

Member
I love how everyone acts this this is an issue isolated to TCU.

Stanford playing a ranked Oregon team on 9/21/19:
View attachment 6231

USC about to run onto the field on a Friday night against #10 Utah:
View attachment 6232


Miami doing Miami things
View attachment 6233

Vandy was packed with LSU fans earlier this year
View attachment 6234

Empty seats when CU hosted ranked Nebraska
View attachment 6235

Just prior to opening kickoff Boston College on opening weekend vs Virginia Tech
View attachment 6236



I am sure I could find more examples from this year with little effort

bingo, this isn't just a tcu problem and i think college football is facing some challenges,

ticket prices keep going on, request (demand) for donations keep increasing, and the ability to watch multiple games at home without the travel time, cost etc....
 

frogs9497

Full Member
All games being televised hurts. Ever increasing ticket prices hurt. Length of games hurt. Playing games at the wrong time of the day hurts. Playing on week days hurts. College football is hurting itself with all of the above. I just hope the young people don't quit coming or the future will be bleak.

The State of California may kill college football first.
 

Eight

Member
All games being televised hurts. Ever increasing ticket prices hurt. Length of games hurt. Playing games at the wrong time of the day hurts. Playing on week days hurts. College football is hurting itself with all of the above. I just hope the young people don't quit coming or the future will be bleak.

you hit so many things on the head, but tragically i don't see television reducing the games and the bigger programs have become too dependent on spending the millions they have received from television for there to be a change
 

WhatTheFrog

Active Member
All games being televised hurts. Ever increasing ticket prices hurt. Length of games hurt. Playing games at the wrong time of the day hurts. Playing on week days hurts. College football is hurting itself with all of the above. I just hope the young people don't quit coming or the future will be bleak.
The future is already bleak. We've seen it here over the past few weeks with questions about streaming live tv vs. paying the big money options like Dish, DTV, ATT, 3xx, etc. Plus, kids these days really don't give a big flip about sports like their elders. Too many other entertainment options out there to capture their attention besides sports. I was lucky, I found a woman that absolutely loves sports (from a W TX town of just over 600, that's all they had for entertainment). Never have to get in a fight about what channel to put the tv on during football season. Our BOYS, however, couldn't give two hoots about any sports. We've carried 4 season tix since 2001. Our boys haven't been to a game since probably 2006 or 7. We try to bring others with us, but sometimes we can't find takers. It allows me to manspread when we have no guests.

Side note, we've NEVER had opposing fans in our seats since that time. We brought an SMU grad about 4 years ago, but his wife is a huge TCU fan (never attended) and he dressed in TCU gear and cheered with her (whipped).
 

tcumaniac

Full Member
TCU needs to put a ceiling on the amount of priority points an account can earn per season from total season tickets purchased.

As it stands now, I could go buy 50 extra season tickets and get 50 extra priority points (points that will never expire unlike points from donations that roll off every 10 years). Depending on the location of my theoretical extra 50 seats, I could either make a profit, make my money back, or get close to making my money back, all while accumulating priority points and passing by other fans on the priority point list. And don't say I'm exaggerating or making this up. I know people that literally do this exact thing successfully every season. And attend a game. The problem is blatantly apparent.

If TCU capped the priority points earned per season for season tickets at something like 6 points, there'd no longer be incentive to put that much capital at risk with all the extra tickets. I'd be shocked if most accounts needed more than 6 tickets, and for the ones that do, taking priority points away won't stop them from buying the amount of seats they need together. It would, however, dramatically decrease the amount of accounts that buy extra tickets to resell just for points. And IMO, this particular issue is one of the biggest destroyers of our home field advantage. It keeps the best seats out of the hands of our actual fans and creates pockets of seats purchased for resell throughout the entire stadium. And it royally screws real fans during the upgrade process. Say someone plays this game for a few years and end up passing you buy on the priority point list. When it comes their time to upgrade, they get to upgrade all of their extra seats that they have just to resell before you get to upgrade the seats that you actually intend to sit in. That's why many TCU fans show up to games and see countless opposing fans sitting in better seats than they have.

To TCU's credit, they did start limiting the amount of tickets you can upgrade this year, which is a great first step. Problem is, people that have been doing this for a while already have their extra seats in good locations and won't give them up unless TCU starts taking more aggressive steps.

Lastly, ADJD needs to start having uncomfortable conversations with our high net worth fans that control the premium seats on the west side that never get sat in. So many of those seats go unused EVERY SINGLE GAME. Reason is because many of the people that control those seats also have suites or club seats. Doesn't matter how rich you are, we all only have one butt. If these affluent fans care enough about TCU to donate large sums of money, they should care enough about TCU to release seats that they do not need or use.

Attendance problems are a vicious cycle. Poor attendance hurts recruiting. Poor recruiting hurts on field performance. Poor on field performance hurts attendance. And on and on and on. Getting real TCU fans in our best seats and reducing the amount of tickets that are controlled for the sole purpose of reselling needs to become ADJD's biggest priority. It is a huge part of maximizing our chances of winning a national championship.
 

HToady

Full Member
College football is no longer for the fans in the stands.

TV caters to the guy on the couch and pays for that right. They control the schedules.

Universities sell out to businesses and corporations for the choice seats. Those people give the tickets to whomever they want. They control the crowd mix.

Instead of building giant stadiums, players should play in front of banks of TVs showing people watching from home......
 
K

kdaltcu

Guest
Our stadium is too big for the size of our school... but probably 10 years too late to fix that problem
 

SuperTFrog

Active Member
They should absolutely have some geographic sensitivity to game times. Teams in the South should not play 11 or 2:30 games until October. I was there until they finished the alma mater but I get why a ton of people left. It was 47 degrees for the Colorado State game this past Saturday. Their fans would have probably preferred a 2:30 kick.
 

WhatTheFrog

Active Member
TCU needs to put a ceiling on the amount of priority points an account can earn per season from total season tickets purchased.

As it stands now, I could go buy 50 extra season tickets and get 50 extra priority points (points that will never expire unlike points from donations that roll off every 10 years). Depending on the location of my theoretical extra 50 seats, I could either make a profit, make my money back, or get close to making my money back, all while accumulating priority points and passing by other fans on the priority point list. And don't say I'm exaggerating or making this up. I know people that literally do this exact thing successfully every season. And attend a game. The problem is blatantly apparent.

If TCU capped the priority points earned per season for season tickets at something like 6 points, there'd no longer be incentive to put that much capital at risk with all the extra tickets. I'd be shocked if most accounts needed more than 6 tickets, and for the ones that do, taking priority points away won't stop them from buying the amount of seats they need together. It would, however, dramatically decrease the amount of accounts that buy extra tickets to resell just for points. And IMO, this particular issue is one of the biggest destroyers of our home field advantage. It keeps the best seats out of the hands of our actual fans and creates pockets of seats purchased for resell throughout the entire stadium. And it royally screws real fans during the upgrade process. Say someone plays this game for a few years and end up passing you buy on the priority point list. When it comes their time to upgrade, they get to upgrade all of their extra seats that they have just to resell before you get to upgrade the seats that you actually intend to sit in. That's why many TCU fans show up to games and see countless opposing fans sitting in better seats than they have.

To TCU's credit, they did start limiting the amount of tickets you can upgrade this year, which is a great first step. Problem is, people that have been doing this for a while already have their extra seats in good locations and won't give them up unless TCU starts taking more aggressive steps.

Lastly, ADJD needs to start having uncomfortable conversations with our high net worth fans that control the premium seats on the west side that never get sat in. So many of those seats go unused EVERY SINGLE GAME. Reason is because many of the people that control those seats also have suites or club seats. Doesn't matter how rich you are, we all only have one butt. If these affluent fans care enough about TCU to donate large sums of money, they should care enough about TCU to release seats that they do not need or use.

Attendance problems are a vicious cycle. Poor attendance hurts recruiting. Poor recruiting hurts on field performance. Poor on field performance hurts attendance. And on and on and on. Getting real TCU fans in our best seats and reducing the amount of tickets that are controlled for the sole purpose of reselling needs to become ADJD's biggest priority. It is a huge part of maximizing our chances of winning a national championship.
No, you can't. There's a limit on how many season tickets you can buy, based on your giving level. Unless you have a Founders level box or whatever they're called, you aren't really doing richard. If you were that level of a donor, you either wouldn't give to poops or you would donate them to Frog only fans (if you could find takers). Unfortunately, a lot of the t-shirt fans that TCU has are those that will only attend if you invite them into the A/C club area with food and booze. That's the reality of our fanbase. It's not the game, it's the social aspect.
 
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