• The KillerFrogs

Astros cheating....

TxFrog1999

TxFrog1999

The Man Behind The Curtain
Stealing signals in baseball is an art form, but there is a difference between stealing/figuring out signals of a third-base coach or a runner on second observing the catcher, and purposefully setting up equipment and assigning staff to spy on a team and send coded signals from the dugout tunnel. I have no doubt every team in the league has players in the dugout figuring out a third-base coach's key, or watching film of pitchers to determine type of pitch vs. release point and motion of the windup. However, what the Astros are being accused of isn't just part of playing the game, it's dirty and underhanded.
 
Hoosierfrog

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
TxFrog1999 said:
Stealing signals in baseball is an art form, but there is a difference between stealing/figuring out signals of a third-base coach or a runner on second observing the catcher, and purposefully setting up equipment and assigning staff to spy on a team and send coded signals from the dugout tunnel. I have no doubt every team in the league has players in the dugout figuring out a third-base coach's key, or watching film of pitchers to determine type of pitch vs. release point and motion of the windup. However, what the Astros are being accused of isn't just part of playing the game, it's dirty and underhanded.
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potato potahto
 
M

Moose Stuff

Active Member
BrewingFrog said:
But, see, it's only the Astros who use technology to figure out signs. Just that one team.

Oh, and nobody since Abner Doubleday has tried to figure out signs, or note tendencies, or strengths/weaknesses, or...
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You people seem smart. How do you NOT grasp the difference between normal sign stealing and cheating????

Like when Gary says SMU stole our signs.... absolutely above board. But what if they planted a camera or microphone on our sideline and listened/watched what we were doing??? Would you guys think that was cool?
 
Hoosierfrog

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
Moose Stuff said:
You people seem smart. How do you NOT grasp the difference between normal sign stealing and cheating????

Like when Gary says SMU stole our signs.... absolutely above board. But what if they planted a camera or microphone on our sideline and listened/watched what we were doing??? Would you guys think that was cool?
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only if we did it to them...
 
M

MTfrog5

Active Member
Hoosierfrog said:
So, in your line of thinking cheating on one level is okay, but doing it better isn’t?

I'm not saying either one is okay. They are either both wrong or both not okay.
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Stealing signs isn’t cheating when you do it by watching with your own eyes. When technology is involved then you start crossing that line
 
BrewingFrog

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Moose Stuff said:
You people seem smart. How do you NOT grasp the difference between normal sign stealing and cheating????

Like when Gary says SMU stole our signs.... absolutely above board. But what if they planted a camera or microphone on our sideline and listened/watched what we were doing??? Would you guys think that was cool?
Click to expand...
Oh, to be certain, nobody in College Football has ever, ever, videoed the sideline of an opposing team to study it for clues about signals and tendencies. Ever.

Why do you think many Coaches cover their mouth when calling a play? Duh...

To pretend that nobody but those naughty Astros and that especially naughty Luhnow were up to no good is ridiculous. There are many ways of "cheating" and if any team thinks it can get an edge then they will employ such methods without a second thought. The trick is figuring out how to cover the tracks. Additionally, players and Managers aren't all morons. It didn't take long for them to figure out something hinky was going on, and they changed their signals! Voila!

As to the SMU analogy, I put all blame for that on GMFP hissownself. He had to damned well know that Dykes would use his knowledge of signs, tendencies and philosophy to his advantage, and he failed to take appropriate countermeasures.
 
satis1103

satis1103

DAOTONPYH EHT LIAH LLA
For those "defending" this behavior as similar to looking for signals with a runner at second or something - just extend the tech angle a little further...

What if some 180 IQ Stanford grad gets with the As and provides them a system, not only for using cameras to detect signals, but to have an algorithm interpret even complex ones, then send a beep or tone to the invisible ear bud the batter has? Now what happens when you apply brain/electonics interface in phase 2 of this, allowing it to align with batter thoughts and even start muscle movements... You see how slippery this slope gets, right? A computer could probably even overcome a lack of signals - in milliseconds it can detect spin to determine a pitch.

By allowing human "cheating" but not technology-aided cheating, we limit the damage and the benefit to the cheater. But we can't let tech get involved.
 
Eight

Eight

Member
satis1103 said:
For those "defending" this behavior as similar to looking for signals with a runner at second or something - just extend the tech angle a little further...

What if some 180 IQ Stanford grad gets with the As and provides them a system, not only for using cameras to detect signals, but to have an algorithm interpret even complex ones, then send a beep or tone to the invisible ear bud the batter has? Now what happens when you apply brain/electonics interface in phase 2 of this, allowing it to align with batter thoughts and even start muscle movements... You see how slippery this slope gets, right? A computer could probably even overcome a lack of signals - in milliseconds it can detect spin to determine a pitch.

By allowing human "cheating" but not technology-aided cheating, we limit the damage and the benefit to the cheater. But we can't let tech get involved.
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so do you take all of analytics out of the game?

i am not pro cheating, i just don't understand how one instance is viewed a skill and one is viewed as cheating.
 
M

MTfrog5

Active Member

Bad pitch? Yes. But goodness you can tell Springer knows exactly what’s coming by watching his load. Multiple videos have been posted in this thread now. I don’t really understand how people are saying this is the same as runner at second picking up signs.
 
Eight

Eight

Member
MTfrog5 said:

Bad pitch? Yes. But goodness you can tell Springer knows exactly what’s coming by watching his load. Multiple videos have been posted in this thread now. I don’t really understand how people are saying this is the same as runner at second picking up signs.
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if the runner at second picks up signs and say grabs his right elbow indicating a curve ball how is that different from a guy in center field with a camera?

wouldn't george be tipped on the pitch either which way?
 
Zubaz

Zubaz

Member
People recognize that Jomboy is a major Yankees fan, right? Like, this isn't some neutral observer, this is a cranky fan upset that the Houston manager threw shade at his team and beat them in the ALCS 2 out of the last 3 seasons.
 

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