• The KillerFrogs

8-team Playoff

Dogfrog

Active Member
Just a reminder Pitt didn’t actually beat Clemson. But if they had, there should be consequences related to losing to Pitt at the end of the season. This isn’t that hard.
 

mesohornedfrog

Active Member
Apologies for a long post....

One of the MANY issues with the NCAA is that they let conferences basically run like a state government, setting their own rules, but then want to crown a champion when everyone is playing by different standards.

I know it's not easy, but it just seems so easy to put in a few qualifiers to be 'eligible' for post season playoff consideration.

1. Must play a 11 game schedule of P5 with no more than 2 G5. If conferences want to do a 10 game regular season with a CG than great, but if not they at least can't do 2 cupcakes every year

2. Must finish in the top 12-16 or whatever the number may be in the final rankings. I know this could cause CG to not matter sometimes if a team like Pitt plays, but that opens up the door for that conference to eliminate it

- I also love the idea of a preseason game for tuneups / tailgaiting practice. I hate paying full price for Jackson States. Why can't the NCAA start the season one week earlier and allow teams to play one exhibition game if they want to. If not, that's an extra week of practice, and if they do then it helps teams get ready for the year and also gives a payout to these smaller schools which they need keep their programs running.

- Lastly, one issue I saw mentioned in the Athletic article was around the lost glamour of the Non Semifinal sites if the playoff was expanded. For example, this year if it was 8 teams, instead of Ohio State in the Rose Bowl at 12-1, it would be probably a 9-3 team. One interesting solution would be to let all the teams that lose the first round of the playoff be eligible for those bowls. Not sure if I was a player that I'd want to play in an exhibition a few weeks after my championship chance ended, but it's still an interesting thing to think about.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Just a reminder Pitt didn’t actually beat Clemson. But if they had, there should be consequences related to losing to Pitt at the end of the season. This isn’t that hard.

There should also be consequences to losing to Penn State, North Carolina, Central Florida, Notre Dame and Miami. You're right, this isn't that hard.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I know I don't know [ Finebaum ] but I can tell you a major issue in expansion is simply the logistics of staging large events like this on short notice, when you don't even know where they are going to be until 2-3 weeks prior. It's simply not as easy as snapping your fingers and doing it. I don't think they'd want it where Quarterfinal games are all played in neutral-site Bowl games because of the travel demands on fans so you'd probably be looking at on campus home field sites.

Bowl games are planned sometimes years in advance and it is known exactly where and when they will be played. It's just totally different than saying, on December 4th, Big-State U with your 80,000 seat stadium, you're hosting a game in three weeks. Oh, you've got something else planned there that week? Too bad, cancel it, this game is on your field, get it done. Security contract, food vendors, marketing, tickets, yada, yada, yada..........everyone makes that NAIA, D2, D3 comparison but if you think putting on one of those games where 3-10k fans might be there is anywhere close to putting on an FBS CFP playoff type game, in the words of eight, I don't know what to tell you. Not saying it can't be done, but there are MAJOR things that will need to be taken into account that nobody seems to want to worry about it, we just want more teams so a 8-4 conference champ has a chance to win a title. At least 60+ venues will have to at least make preliminary contingencies to be prepared to stage a game, just in case.

Yes, the NFL does it all the time but it's their business and there are only 32 teams involved.
 

Eight

Member
I know I don't know [ steaming pile of Orgeron ] but I can tell you a major issue in expansion is simply the logistics of staging large events like this on short notice, when you don't even know where they are going to be until 2-3 weeks prior. It's simply not as easy as snapping your fingers and doing it. I don't think they'd want it where Quarterfinal games are all played in neutral-site Bowl games because of the travel demands on fans so you'd probably be looking at on campus home field sites.

Bowl games are planned sometimes years in advance and it is known exactly where and when they will be played. It's just totally different than saying, on December 4th, Big-State U with your 80,000 seat stadium, you're hosting a game in three weeks. Oh, you've got something else planned there that week? Too bad, cancel it, this game is on your field, get it done. Security contract, food vendors, marketing, tickets, yada, yada, yada..........everyone makes that NAIA, D2, D3 comparison but if you think putting on one of those games where 3-10k fans might be there is anywhere close to putting on an FBS CFP playoff type game, in the words of eight, I don't know what to tell you. Not saying it can't be done, but there are MAJOR things that will need to be taken into account that nobody seems to want to worry about it, we just want more teams so a 8-4 conference champ has a chance to win a title. At least 60+ venues will have to at least make preliminary contingencies to be prepared to stage a game, just in case.

Yes, the NFL does it all the time but it's their business and there are only 32 teams involved.

jesus...... i was waiting for your third tired argument. it works because it isn't nearly as difficult as you continue to try to make it out to be.

it will get handled the same way the ncaa does it with baseball because the ncaa play-offs are run by the ncaa with the help of host schools. i haven't heard of problems but i am sure you will sit around and fret about issues that are real problems right? goodness knows no one in the ncaa knows a damn thing about scheduling logistics since they oversee how many post season events involving how many individual athletes, teams coaches, and conferences?

the ncaa makes a great deal of money to have sufficient staff for setting up 7 football games. wow......what an insurmountable task to schedule 7 football games over three weekends. i am sure the logistics can get worked out no different than at every other level, in the various pro leagues where they face this problem.

serious, if the biggest worry about expanding the play-offs from 4-8 teams is worrying if a 6 loss team MIGHT get in and running out of freaking hot dogs (and diced onions) the only proper response is what the scheiss are we waiting for to do it?
 

Eight

Member
from the ncaa's won website:

"The NCAA administers 90 championships in 24 sports for its member institutions. Each championship is run by a committee of coaches and administrators from NCAA member schools who are experts in their sport."

that's it, no freaking way this organization could possibly oversee 7 football games over 3 weekends.
 

froginmn

Full Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Make the first round of the playoffs on the week of the current CCG's, and eliminate the meaningless CCG's.

The four teams who lose remain eligible for the traditional bowls, so their seasons don't end with a loss in Tuscaloosa or Columbus, which would suck for a fan.

Those four losing teams still get a great travel experience, have the same length of time to plan, the Rose Bowl still happens on Jan 1 and the Rose Parade still happens. Fans don't need to make tentative plans to go to LA a week after a quarterfinal. They still get a cool bowl as a consolation prize if they lose.

The winners go to the semifinals, and the semis have a full event flavor and those fans have time to plan too.

This way, you don't worry about kids missing any more school than they do now, they still have the same time to rest and refresh that they have now, travel isn't more complicated by short notice that would happen if you tried to fit the quarters into mid late December, bowls don't lose prestige or have to change schedule, get a good number of hotel rooms sold, and the 5th to 8th best teams in the country don't lose the experience.

If you don't do this, there is a guarantee that instead of OU going to the Sugar Bowl and Michigan going to the Rose, they'll get to travel to Tuscaloosa or Columbus for a one and done. As a fan, that would suck. As a player who got yourself into the playoff, a game at Wisconsin in December with no bowl swag etc. would be a kick in the nuts.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
jesus...... i was waiting for your third tired argument. it works because it isn't nearly as difficult as you continue to try to make it out to be.

it will get handled the same way the ncaa does it with baseball because the ncaa play-offs are run by the ncaa with the help of host schools. i haven't heard of problems but i am sure you will sit around and fret about issues that are real problems right? goodness knows no one in the ncaa knows a damn thing about scheduling logistics since they oversee how many post season events involving how many individual athletes, teams coaches, and conferences?

the ncaa makes a great deal of money to have sufficient staff for setting up 7 football games. wow......what an insurmountable task to schedule 7 football games over three weekends. i am sure the logistics can get worked out no different than at every other level, in the various pro leagues where they face this problem.

serious, if the biggest worry about expanding the play-offs from 4-8 teams is worrying if a 6 loss team MIGHT get in and running out of freaking hot dogs (and diced onions) the only proper response is what the scheiss are we waiting for to do it?

Ok. Name me one event attended by 60,000+ people that isn't run by a major professional sports league that is scheduled 3 weeks in advance. Just one. The same way as basketball? Even NCAA Tournament first and second round locations are determined years in advance. That's kind of my point. I think the people in the NCAA do know a little bit about logistics since they've been putting on events forever, and that there must be a reason why they don't decide where to have the Final Four a month before the tournament. In fact, I can already tell you where the 2026 Final Four will be.

Compare the resources the NFL, NBA and MLB has to what the NCAA has. The resources and the in-place structure aren't even remotely comparable. I'm not sayng this is the biggest worry to playoff expansion and adding games (although I think its a significant one) but I know its way more complicated than just saying add another week because more teams need a chance.
 

Eight

Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Make the first round of the playoffs on the week of the current CCG's, and eliminate the meaningless CCG's.

The four teams who lose remain eligible for the traditional bowls, so their seasons don't end with a loss in Tuscaloosa or Columbus, which would suck for a fan.

Those four losing teams still get a great travel experience, have the same length of time to plan, the Rose Bowl still happens on Jan 1 and the Rose Parade still happens. Fans don't need to make tentative plans to go to LA a week after a quarterfinal. They still get a cool bowl as a consolation prize if they lose.

The winners go to the semifinals, and the semis have a full event flavor and those fans have time to plan too.

This way, you don't worry about kids missing any more school than they do now, they still have the same time to rest and refresh that they have now, travel isn't more complicated by short notice that would happen if you tried to fit the quarters into mid late December, bowls don't lose prestige or have to change schedule, get a good number of hotel rooms sold, and the 5th to 8th best teams in the country don't lose the experience.

If you don't do this, there is a guarantee that instead of OU going to the Sugar Bowl and Michigan going to the Rose, they'll get to travel to Tuscaloosa or Columbus for a one and done. As a fan, that would suck. As a player who got yourself into the playoff, a game at Wisconsin in December with no bowl swag etc. would be a kick in the nuts.


you honestly believe that playing in a bowl game would be more appealing to players than making the play off and a shot at a national title and one reason is "no bowl swag"
 

Wexahu

Full Member
from the ncaa's won website:

"The NCAA administers 90 championships in 24 sports for its member institutions. Each championship is run by a committee of coaches and administrators from NCAA member schools who are experts in their sport."

that's it, no freaking way this organization could possibly oversee 7 football games over 3 weekends.

Yeah, staging those tennis, golf and rifle championships is sure comparable to a potential CFP playoff game.
 

Eight

Member
Ok. Name me one event attended by 60,000+ people that isn't run by a major professional sports league that is scheduled 3 weeks in advance. Just one. The same way as basketball? Even NCAA Tournament first and second round locations are determined years in advance. That's kind of my point. I think the people in the NCAA do know a little bit about logistics since they've been putting on events forever, and that there must be a reason why they don't decide where to have the Final Four a month before the tournament. In fact, I can already tell you where the 2026 Final Four will be.

Compare the resources the NFL, NBA and MLB has to what the NCAA has. The resources and the in-place structure aren't even remotely comparable. I'm not sayng this is the biggest worry to playoff expansion and adding games (although I think its a significant one) but I know its way more complicated than just saying add another week because more teams need a chance.

so why do you think the nfl is capable and the ncaa wouldn't be capable? the ncaa isn't a billion dollar business that oversees the activities of 1,000's of athletes and coaches, has no experience with event planning, or dealing with the networks

we aren't curing cancer, this isn't advanced mathematics, writing code or something actually difficult.

you start making contingency plans as soon as the pairings are announced. you don't actually wait until the week of, but before then and you only have 4 POSSIBLE GAME SITES. oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how could the ncaa possibly be expected to handle such a complex task. maybe cal tech or mit could loan out a few rocket scientist for this herculean task.

high school coaches in this state for decades have known the location of next week's play-off game before they played this weeks game simply by doing this revolutionary thing called planning ahead. their athletic directors with only being retired coaches in most cases actually could do things like make travel arrangements beyond calling whataburger as the game ended to place a to go order.

you trot the same tired arguments out each time and there are so many examples of how it currently works the only possible explanations is you just want to argue or you refuse to accept any other idea. doesn't matter because i am done.
 

jake102

Active Member
Ok. Name me one event attended by 60,000+ people that isn't run by a major professional sports league that is scheduled 3 weeks in advance. Just one. .

2018 - Virginia vs Ohio - with like four days notice, moved to Vanderbilt's stadium.
2017 - LSU vs BYU moved from Houston to New Orleans. About a four day notice
2016 - LSU and Florida flipped home games. Both teams had to cancel a game against another opponent (FCS) to make it happen.


Should I go on?
 

Wexahu

Full Member
so why do you think the nfl is capable and the ncaa wouldn't be capable? the ncaa isn't a billion dollar business that oversees the activities of 1,000's of athletes and coaches, has no experience with event planning, or dealing with the net

we aren't curing cancer, this isn't advanced mathematics, writing code or something actually difficult.

you start making contingency plans as soon as the pairings are announced. you don't actually wait until the week of, but before then and you only have 4 POSSIBLE GAME SITES. oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how could the ncaa possibly be expected to handle such a complex task. maybe cal tech or mit could loan out a few rocket scientist for this herculean task.

high school coaches in this state for decades have known the location of next week's play-off game before they played this weeks game simply by doing this revolutionary thing called planning ahead. their athletic directors with only being retired coaches in most cases actually could do things like make travel arrangements beyond calling whataburger as the game ended to place a to go order.

you trot the same tired arguments out each time and there are so many examples of how it currently works the only possible explanations is you just want to argue or you refuse to accept any other idea. doesn't matter because i am done.

Name me one example. Just one. If it's so damn easy to do, why is literally EVERY single 50,000+ spectator amateur sporting event, in terms of where and when it's being played, scheduled at least a year in advance. Every single one.

The money the NFL, MLB, and NBA generate dwarfs what the NCAA brings in, and the professional leagues have a structure set in place years in advance. It's simply not comparable. And now you're comparing the Texas high school playoffs to the CFP?

4 possible game sites? What are you talking about? You'd only know that by the early December. Starting the year you literally have 50+ possible game sites and then as late as November you might have as many as 10 depending on how the last few weeks unfold.
 

YA

Active Member
Name me one example. Just one. If it's so damn easy to do, why is literally EVERY single 50,000+ spectator amateur sporting event, in terms of where and when it's being played, scheduled at least a year in advance. Every single one.

The money the NFL, MLB, and NBA generate dwarfs what the NCAA brings in, and the professional leagues have a structure set in place years in advance. It's simply not comparable. And now you're comparing the Texas high school playoffs to the CFP?

4 possible game sites? What are you talking about? You'd only know that by the early December. Starting the year you literally have 50+ possible game sites and then as late as November you might have as many as 10 depending on how the last few weeks unfold.
Did you type all of that and forgot to even read Jake102's post that was posted 20 minutes before your post?

If you did and still posted this then LOL
 

Wexahu

Full Member
2018 - Virginia vs Ohio - with like four days notice, moved to Vanderbilt's stadium.
2017 - LSU vs BYU moved from Houston to New Orleans. About a four day notice
2016 - LSU and Florida flipped home games. Both teams had to cancel a game against another opponent (FCS) to make it happen.


Should I go on?

Good work, but I'd probably say the Virginia-Ohio game probably had about 10,000 people there and the Florida-LSU game is a bit of an outlier as they just flipped sites. LSU-BYU, that's the best rebuttal of all, no idea how much of a success that game was.

Again, I'm not saying it's an impossible task, just that it's not nearly as simple as some people make it out to be. Otherwise, why are all schedules released over a year in advance?
 
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jake102

Active Member
Again, I'm not saying it's an impossible task, just that it's not nearly as simple as some people make it out to be. Otherwise, why are all schedules released over a year in advance?

Because there hasn't been a need! It's the old saying, if there's a will there's a way, and there is more than enough money and will at this level of college football to make these things happen. You think TCU is going to opt out because we can't figure out our stadium? You think GP would let Donati do that?

These are the types of excuses that stop good things from happening
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Did you type all of that and forgot to even read Jake102's post above your reply 20 minutes before your post?

If you did and still posted this then LOL

I must have. Yep, he got me I guess. LOL!

I still think it's a pretty significant issue. Not sure a Virginia-Ohio game that was probably attended by 8,000 people serves as a great example.
 

froginmn

Full Member

you honestly believe that playing in a bowl game would be more appealing to players than making the play off and a shot at a national title and one reason is "no bowl swag"
No. I believe that playing in a bowl game after losing in the first round of playoffs would be a nice consolation for those that lose. And I believe the playoffs would be a complete freaking joke if playing in the playoffs means going to Wisconsin for one game on December 20th.

By having the first round in early December, you have an opportunity for those who lose in the first round to also have a good experience. Traveling to Madison Wisconsin on December 20th is much less of an experience than the Sugar Bowl.
 
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