FWST: ‘There is no wrong.’ TCU’s Patterson delivers NIL message to local business leaders

[cheese83]

By the way, for those wondering, in-kind contributions are also welcome:

- Free food and drink for you and a guest at X restaurant

- Membership to a club for free, including use of the clubs facilities... hint, hint

- Loaner cars and all costs paid, etc. etc.

Are you talking about letting college kids become full members at Colonial and/or other country clubs in the area?

 

[cheese83]

Can a second professional football league exist in this country? All the others have failed miserably. I don't see how this would be any different. You have the brand names I guess, but how valuable will those be when they are basically completely detached from the universities?

The NFL has so much power they would kill it. I did think of that the other night, if kids start getting millions to play college football then what is keeping Bama or other schools from just saying you can stay past 4 years and just keep getting paid here to play in our new league. For me the only thing I can see is the NFL using all their power to kill something like this from happening. I find it hard to believe they would want this kind of situation to start taking place. Some of you guys are stating that kids are going to be getting paid millions before they even step foot on a NFL field or at the combine, then all of sudden they should go pro and make less? Total disaster down the line and I'm sure Goodell and those guys are starting to understand it, no way they let this keep happening.

 

[cheese83]

Not a chance unless they are TCU alums. Frankly restaurants barely make it now for profits.

Haha for real, what an insane thought that a local business should start funneling money to a football program. This whole deal is insane right now and can't be sustainable. What is the point of even going to college classes now for some of these kids? Sitting in a communications course or astronomy is a complete waste of time now. We are all going to start subsidizing college athletes that are now essentially employees for non profits? That's almost as bad as NFL teams getting cities to pay for their stadiums.

 

[Zubaz]

No sir. This is college athletics not pro sports. You think your clever with your dig. But hey, you got your jab at the “Man.”

Coaches get paid millions of dollars a year, free to leave for a better offer whenever they want.
They play in stadiums that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, selling anywhere between 50,000 and 100,000 tickets a week, and that doesn't include selling access to club and luxury sections of those stadiums.
Merchandise sales earn tens of millions of dollars, including replicas of the jerseys the kids wear.
Television deals are worth tens of millions of dollars, and in turn draw millions of viewers that command hefty ad rates.

But sure, we can keep pretending that these are just college students and this isn't a defacto professional sports league.

 

[BABYFACE]

Coaches get paid millions of dollars a year, free to leave for a better offer whenever they want.
They play in stadiums that cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
Merchandise sales earn tens of millions of dollars, including replicas of the jerseys the kids wear.
Television deals are worth tens of millions of dollars, and in turn draw millions of viewers that command hefty ad rates.

But sure, we can keep pretending that these are just college students and this isn't a defacto professional sports league.

You still don’t get it. It is over.

Do you understand that players off TCU’s roster can now be recruited to go play at another university and promised NIL money (the rule is already being abused) without sitting a year? Plus, said player doesn’t have to sit a year to transfer. Obviously, this affects recruiting. It will be a bidding war in this area too.

College athletics will implode. It cannot sustain itself with these two new rule changes unless they reigned back in adjusted. I give it 10 years before college athletics is gone.

 

[BABYFACE]

I think you are not seeing the consequences. It is over.

Do you understand that players off TCU’s roster can now be recruited to go play at another university and promised NIL money (the rule is already being abused) without sitting a year? Plus, said player doesn’t have to sit a year to transfer. Obviously, this affects recruiting. It will be a bidding war in this area too.

College athletics will implode. It cannot sustain itself with these two new rule changes unless they reigned back in adjusted. I give it 10 years before college athletics is gone.

 

[Zubaz]

You still don’t get it. It is over.

Do you understand that players off TCU’s roster can now be recruited to go play at another university and promised NIL money (the rule is already being abused) without sitting a year? Plus, said player doesn’t have to sit a year to transfer. Obviously, this affects recruiting. It will be a bidding war in this area too.

College athletics will implode. It cannot sustain itself with these two new rule changes unless they reigned back in adjusted. I give it 10 years before college athletics is gone.

"How a pro sports league maintains parity to hold interest" is a different conversation than your original assertion of "this isn't pro sports". That hasn't been true for 40 some years now at least.

 

[Wexahu]

"How a pro sports league maintains parity to hold interest" is a different conversation than your original assertion of "this isn't pro sports". That hasn't been true for 40 some years now at least.

Ok, let’s have that conversation. Name me a successful team sports league in the history of the world where there was no draft, no cap on spending, no binding multi-year contracts, and almost total free agency?

Is this going to be the first one ever?

 

[Eight]

Ok, let’s have that conversation. Name me a successful team sports league in the history of the world where there was no draft, no cap on spending, no binding multi-year contracts, and almost total free agency?

Is this going to be the first one ever?

seems all that is happening now is inertia is starting to be overcome and as things accelerate what is inevitable is starting to take place in college sports because this has been coming for quite some time and there were multiple chances to address some of these issues and the powers that be in the ncaa, the conferences, and the colleges refused to address the impending changes

 

[BABYFACE]

"How a pro sports league maintains parity to hold interest" is a different conversation than your original assertion of "this isn't pro sports". That hasn't been true for 40 some years now at least.

Nice try. It is still college athletics.

 

[Purp]

The NFL has so much power they would kill it. I did think of that the other night, if kids start getting millions to play college football then what is keeping Bama or other schools from just saying you can stay past 4 years and just keep getting paid here to play in our new league. For me the only thing I can see is the NFL using all their power to kill something like this from happening. I find it hard to believe they would want this kind of situation to start taking place. Some of you guys are stating that kids are going to be getting paid millions before they even step foot on a NFL field or at the combine, then all of sudden they should go pro and make less? Total disaster down the line and I'm sure Goodell and those guys are starting to understand it, no way they let this keep happening.

We've seen one kid get paid over $1mm before graduating high school and sitting out his senior year. It's absolute lunacy.

It'll be interesting what the NFL does about this. I'm honestly not sure what they can do. The NFL is about to start competing with a league that has more freedom for players and maybe more money for some of them. A kid that might go in the 7th round of the draft may be earning more at his university than he will in the NFL. The only thing keeping the NFL from fully competing is eligibility limits in college. But I said in this thread yesterday that it's not a difficult logical leap to see the top 30ish programs in the country forming their own, independent league and eliminating eligibility requirements. At that point you'd have a direct competitor for the NFL. There would be little incentive for kids to leave for the NFL. They'd have no contracts beyond NIL deals (presumably), no "salary cap" for teams, no ownership group concerned with escalating player wages affecting balance sheets, etc. Beyond that, there would be no limits on player movement and rules restricting how much a player could make at a particular number of years of service and so forth. It's a professional athlete's panacea. If it got enough momentum the NFL would be forced to start taking high school kids to keep the influx of talent coming. But by that time the "college" game may be more popular than the NFL product. It's a bizarre rabbit hole to peek into.

I actually hope it happens. The byproduct of something like this would be a ton of great high school players with no place to go. If eligibility requirements disappear in a 30ish team "college" league then you won't have 20-30 scholarship athletes turning over on college rosters every year. Imagine so many players in the portal that top programs take 20 portal players and 5 high school kids every year. At that point the top high school players not selected for this league have to go somewhere. That's where the real college football comes in. Those players will play somewhere and I bet the remaining leagues agree to a particular scholarship model that limits player movement again, but also offers NIL opportunities (that cat is out of the bag forever). The NIL opportunities will just be much smaller than the professional college league. This is where I hope TCU lands. We would excel as part of 100 remnant programs of college football and I suspect the fan interest would be quite large.

 

[Eight]

Nice try. It is still college athletics.

which means what exactly? hear this, but what does that truly mean because the money flowing into these programs and being spent on these programs doesn't match any other part of the college environment and you are talking about a bubble world whose costs have exploded

according to the ncaa there are ~475k athletes participating at the various divisional levels.

additionally, according to the ncaa the combined money spent on all divisions of college sports in the ncaa for fiscal year 2019 was 18.8BILLION. 3.6B of that was spent on financial aid for student-athletes and 3.7B was compensation for coaches

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/finances-intercollegiate-athletics​

so i ask again, exactly what does it mean to say it is still college athletics because i am fairly certain in no other aspect of the college experience do we see that level of spending per students involved in programs or that amount of money spent on staff

 

[Eight]

We've seen one kid get paid over $1mm before graduating high school and sitting out his senior year. It's absolute lunacy.

It'll be interesting what the NFL does about this. I'm honestly not sure what they can do. The NFL is about to start competing with a league that has more freedom for players and maybe more money for some of them. A kid that might go in the 7th round of the draft may be earning more at his university than he will in the NFL. The only thing keeping the NFL from fully competing is eligibility limits in college. But I said in this thread yesterday that it's not a difficult logical leap to see the top 30ish programs in the country forming their own, independent league and eliminating eligibility requirements. At that point you'd have a direct competitor for the NFL. There would be little incentive for kids to leave for the NFL. They'd have no contracts beyond NIL deals (presumably), no "salary cap" for teams, no ownership group concerned with escalating player wages affecting balance sheets, etc. Beyond that, there would be no limits on player movement and rules restricting how much a player could make at a particular number of years of service and so forth. It's a professional athlete's panacea. If it got enough momentum the NFL would be forced to start taking high school kids to keep the influx of talent coming. But by that time the "college" game may be more popular than the NFL product. It's a bizarre rabbit hole to peek into.

I actually hope it happens. The byproduct of something like this would be a ton of great high school players with no place to go. If eligibility requirements disappear in a 30ish team "college" league then you won't have 20-30 scholarship athletes turning over on college rosters every year. Imagine so many players in the portal that top programs take 20 portal players and 5 high school kids every year. At that point the top high school players not selected for this league have to go somewhere. That's where the real college football comes in. Those players will play somewhere and I bet the remaining leagues agree to a particular scholarship model that limits player movement again, but also offers NIL opportunities (that cat is out of the bag forever). The NIL opportunities will just be much smaller than the professional college league. This is where I hope TCU lands. We would excel as part of 100 remnant programs of college football and I suspect the fan interest would be quite large.

all fair questions and i agree the nfl has to be viewing these developments with a great deal of concern

they have a minor league system in college football in which they pay little to none of the development costs. compare their system to not only the other major sports in the us but say with soccer around the world

a kid coming right out of high school isn't ready for the physical and mental demands of the nfl so what do they do? start building their version of the g-league? heck, for all the money they spend on scouting college players now they still have a significant number of misses. can't imagine what the costs would be or the success rate if they moved down to high school kids.

perfect world for the nfl is that college athletics get their [ Finebaum ] straight but right now there is no one in charge and too many parties with too much at stake who don't want to give up control and these parties aren't acting in the best interest of the kids

 

[Zubaz]

We've seen one kid get paid over $1mm before graduating high school and sitting out his senior year. It's absolute lunacy.

Why is it "lunacy"? As a share of revenue for a big time college program, $1mm is a drop in the bucket (and remember, this isn't even coming out of the school's pocket anyway). How is a kid getting that money before playing a game in at the college level significantly different than Joe Burrow getting a $23 million signing bonus before playing a down in the NFL?

It'll be interesting what the NFL does about this. I'm honestly not sure what they can do. The NFL is about to start competing with a league that has more freedom for players and maybe more money for some of them. A kid that might go in the 7th round of the draft may be earning more at his university than he will in the NFL. The only thing keeping the NFL from fully competing is eligibility limits in college. But I said in this thread yesterday that it's not a difficult logical leap to see the top 30ish programs in the country forming their own, independent league and eliminating eligibility requirements. At that point you'd have a direct competitor for the NFL. There would be little incentive for kids to leave for the NFL. They'd have no contracts beyond NIL deals (presumably), no "salary cap" for teams, no ownership group concerned with escalating player wages affecting balance sheets, etc. Beyond that, there would be no limits on player movement and rules restricting how much a player could make at a particular number of years of service and so forth. It's a professional athlete's panacea. If it got enough momentum the NFL would be forced to start taking high school kids to keep the influx of talent coming. But by that time the "college" game may be more popular than the NFL product. It's a bizarre rabbit hole to peek into.

I think this is a bit of a stretch. College ball is popular in no small part because of it's exclusive access to the best of the best U-22 talent. In other words, it's not a minor league, it's a young league, and that makes a huge difference. What you're describing would be losing the elite talent and rounding out the roster with NFL rejects, and at that point it's basically the XFL with more established uniforms.

 

[Pharm Frog]

Has much thought been given to how this might impact just regular donors to the overall athletic program? In fairness, I stopped all donations to college athletic departments several years ago for my own reasons but will this make it less likely that those who have given in thought that they were helping the program in real and impactful ways start to rethink whether or not they want to continue to give?

 

[Pharm Frog]

Why is it "lunacy"? As a share of revenue for a big time college program, $1mm is a drop in the bucket (and remember, this isn't even coming out of the school's pocket anyway). How is a kid getting that money before playing a game in at the college level significantly different than Joe Burrow getting a $23 million signing bonus before playing a down in the NFL?

Is that college kid under contract as an employee for X number of years? But in part I agree…it is similar and therefore colleges have no part in this game. Kids pay to go to college…. Employees don’t “pay” to go to work.

 

[Eight]

Has much thought been given to how this might impact just regular donors to the overall athletic program? In fairness, I stopped all donations to college athletic departments several years ago for my own reasons but will this make it less likely that those who have given in thought that they were helping the program in real and impactful ways start to rethink whether or not they want to continue to give?

was told by a friend who is a ut alum that then ad deloss dodds had told a group of texas-exes that one of his goals for the program was to free it from being dependent upon the fickle whims of donors and find more consistent streams of revenue similar to the nfl (i.e. broadcast rigths and ticket sales)

 

[BrewingFrog]

Has much thought been given to how this might impact just regular donors to the overall athletic program? In fairness, I stopped all donations to college athletic departments several years ago for my own reasons but will this make it less likely that those who have given in thought that they were helping the program in real and impactful ways start to rethink whether or not they want to continue to give?

It's for certain that V.Bo is thinking about it...

GMFP is entirely correct to say what everyone is afraid to say. There are no rules anymore. What is interesting to me is the way that the NCAA has been eerily quiet of late. Makes me think that they'll swoop down on somebody like Boise (or TCU) and make an example of them to show that they are still relevant.

 

[cheese83]

We've seen one kid get paid over $1mm before graduating high school and sitting out his senior year. It's absolute lunacy.

It'll be interesting what the NFL does about this. I'm honestly not sure what they can do. The NFL is about to start competing with a league that has more freedom for players and maybe more money for some of them. A kid that might go in the 7th round of the draft may be earning more at his university than he will in the NFL. The only thing keeping the NFL from fully competing is eligibility limits in college. But I said in this thread yesterday that it's not a difficult logical leap to see the top 30ish programs in the country forming their own, independent league and eliminating eligibility requirements. At that point you'd have a direct competitor for the NFL. There would be little incentive for kids to leave for the NFL. They'd have no contracts beyond NIL deals (presumably), no "salary cap" for teams, no ownership group concerned with escalating player wages affecting balance sheets, etc. Beyond that, there would be no limits on player movement and rules restricting how much a player could make at a particular number of years of service and so forth. It's a professional athlete's panacea. If it got enough momentum the NFL would be forced to start taking high school kids to keep the influx of talent coming. But by that time the "college" game may be more popular than the NFL product. It's a bizarre rabbit hole to peek into.

I actually hope it happens. The byproduct of something like this would be a ton of great high school players with no place to go. If eligibility requirements disappear in a 30ish team "college" league then you won't have 20-30 scholarship athletes turning over on college rosters every year. Imagine so many players in the portal that top programs take 20 portal players and 5 high school kids every year. At that point the top high school players not selected for this league have to go somewhere. That's where the real college football comes in. Those players will play somewhere and I bet the remaining leagues agree to a particular scholarship model that limits player movement again, but also offers NIL opportunities (that cat is out of the bag forever). The NIL opportunities will just be much smaller than the professional college league. This is where I hope TCU lands. We would excel as part of 100 remnant programs of college football and I suspect the fan interest would be quite large.

Main obstacle would be retaining a tax exemption as a university and I think the NFL knows the universities want to retain that status. Even the top programs aren't making nearly as much as NFL teams and they aren't even paying salaries to their players.

Every NFL team got $300 mil last year just from their TV deal and that doesn't include local revenue like tickets sales and other things. UT makes like $160 mil and then there's a pretty steep drop off. While college football is a big deal it's still way behind the NFL.

 

[Eight]

It's for certain that V.Bo is thinking about it...

GMFP is entirely correct to say what everyone is afraid to say. There are no rules anymore. What is interesting to me is the way that the NCAA has been eerily quiet of late. Makes me think that they'll swoop down on somebody like Boise (or TCU) and make an example of them to show that they are still relevant.

ncaa's swooping days are over. any school that ACCEPTS punishment from the ncaa deserves what it gets because it has been shown time and time and time again you simply need to lawyer up and the ncaa is effectively neutered

additionally, remember the comments from emmert this summer on the future of the ncaa and college sports:

"NCAA President Mark Emmert said Thursday the time is right to consider a decentralized and deregulated version of college sports, shifting power to conferences and campuses and reconsidering how schools are aligned.

Emmert said the recent Supreme Court ruling against the NCAA along with the lifting of restrictions on athletes monetizing their fame should be a catalyst to “rethink” what college sports is about."

“When you have an environment like that it just forces us to think more about what constraints should be put in place ever on college athletes. And it should be the bare minimum,”

"Sports serve different functions at different schools, Emmert said, and the NCAA needs to govern in a way that is more reflective of that. He added the NCAA should not shy away from the fact that a small percentage of athletes are using college sports as a path to professional sports.

“We need to embrace that,” he said. “And with NIL out there, we’re providing other opportunities around this whole notion of using college sports as a career launching pad.” "

https://apnews.com/article/sports-business-college-sports-

63d1739ab77795561b705a8fec31dcae​