SF Chronicle: Pac-12 says it doesn't 'need' expansion, but will consider it amid Texas, OU fallout

[TopFrog]

Pac-12 says it doesn't 'need' expansion, but will consider it amid Texas, Oklahoma fallout

Rusty Simmons

LOS ANGELES - When Texas and Oklahoma declared the schools’ intentions to leave the Big 12 for the SEC, it signaled a seismic shift of the college football landscape that has the Pac-12 scurrying to make sure it’s not left further behind the other Power 5 conferences.

New Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff announced at Tuesday’s media day that Merton Hanks will run a football strategic working group that will debate with the conference’s coaches and athletic directors any ideas to help earn playoff invitations and eventually win national championships.

Read more at https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/...2-says-it-doesn-t-need-expansion-16343898.php

 

[Eight]

Pac-12 says it doesn't 'need' expansion, but will consider it amid Texas, Oklahoma fallout

Rusty Simmons

LOS ANGELES - When Texas and Oklahoma declared the schools’ intentions to leave the Big 12 for the SEC, it signaled a seismic shift of the college football landscape that has the Pac-12 scurrying to make sure it’s not left further behind the other Power 5 conferences.

New Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff announced at Tuesday’s media day that Merton Hanks will run a football strategic working group that will debate with the conference’s coaches and athletic directors any ideas to help earn playoff invitations and eventually win national championships.

Read more at https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/...2-says-it-doesn-t-need-expansion-16343898.php

what is there to debate? get better, win games, get invited.

do people actually get paid to say this type of stupid [ Finebaum ].

 

[Limey Frog]

Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Oklahoma State would give a nice foothold in the state of Texas, something no other major conference can have except the SEC at this point. You'd still be number two in the state, but you'd be in the fight. Four pods of four playing nine conference regular season games would allow USC, Oregon, etc to play a game in Texas/Oklahoma every year. That has to be appealing. It'll all come down to who wins the argument in the Pac: academic administrators or athletics administrators/TV people.

 

[CountryFrog]

Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Oklahoma State would give a nice foothold in the state of Texas, something no other major conference can have except the SEC at this point. You'd still be number two in the state, but you'd be in the fight. Four pods of four playing nine conference regular season games would allow USC, Oregon, etc to play a game in Texas/Oklahoma every year. That has to be appealing. It'll all come down to who wins the argument in the Pac: academic administrators or athletics administrators/TV people.

Baylor has no shot at joining any of these other power conferences.

 

[tcuball3]

Baylor has no shot at joining any of these other power conferences.

Please elaborate as to why you have this opinion? Other than we all dislike them as a rival

 

[LVH]

Pac 12 isn't expanding

Accept this and move on

 

[Showtime Joe 2.0]

Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Oklahoma State would give a nice foothold in the state of Texas, something no other major conference can have except the SEC at this point. You'd still be number two in the state, but you'd be in the fight. Four pods of four playing nine conference regular season games would allow USC, Oregon, etc to play a game in Texas/Oklahoma every year. That has to be appealing. It'll all come down to who wins the argument in the Pac: academic administrators or athletics administrators/TV people.

Adding TCU and Tech would provide them with enough of a foothold in Texas so that they wouldn't need Baylor. They could pick up Kansas instead and gain a storied basketball program to impress UCLA as well as a weakling football team that all their members could feast upon. Plus, Kansas is an AAU school, which is supposedly important to the PAC 12.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

Tech, TCU, Baylor, and Oklahoma State would give a nice foothold in the state of Texas, something no other major conference can have except the SEC at this point. You'd still be number two in the state, but you'd be in the fight. Four pods of four playing nine conference regular season games would allow USC, Oregon, etc to play a game in Texas/Oklahoma every year. That has to be appealing. It'll all come down to who wins the argument in the Pac: academic administrators or athletics administrators/TV people.

ESPN has already taken a pass on this concept, or they'd already be pushing for it. And the athletics administrators are at their mercy.

Unless Fox steps up and buys into an expanded Pac, this is highly unlikely. There's always a chance that a streaming company could make a major play, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I think this is why there is talk of a scheduling alliance between the B12 and Pac12. It kinda kills two birds with one stone. It doesn't burden the Pac12 with any risk (shrinking revenues due to more mouths to feed), but it keeps the B12 alive. It also appeases the Pac12 administrators who may not be willing to sacrifice their "academic integrity" by allowing "lesser" schools like Tech and Oklahoma State into their league. For what it's worth, the US News rankings have Tech at #217 and Okie State at #187. The worst current school in the Pac12 is Washington State at #176. Ten of the 12 are in the top 103, with four in the top 25. Baylor is #76 and TCU is #80. BU and TCU would rank #6 and #7 in the Pac12 in terms of academics, but they wouldn't fulfill their research standards.

 

[Eight]

agree with lvh that i don't think the pac makes any immediate changes.

not sure if the big 10 does as well because i am not sure what they gain that the don't have already which is why i still believe the best thing for the remaining 8 is bide their time, get as much money as they can out of texas and ou and work to show the value in your product.

 

[Showtime Joe 2.0]

Baylor has no shot at joining any of these other power conferences.

From your lips to the ears of the Conference Realignment Gods!

 

[CountryFrog]

Please elaborate as to why you have this opinion? Other than we all dislike them as a rival

I don't believe the onus is on me to say why they won't. The onus would be on anyone who thinks Baylor brings added value to one of these conferences to explain that position.

And simply being in Texas is not a reason, as there are multiple schools in Texas to choose from. Anyone who simply wants a "foothold in Texas" has a plethora of options.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

agree with lvh that i don't think the pac makes any immediate changes.

not sure if the big 10 does as well because i am not sure what they gain that the don't have already which is why i still believe the best thing for the remaining 8 is bide their time, get as much money as they can out of texas and ou and work to show the value in your product.

Yeah, unless the TV networks start pushing the PAC12, then I doubt they do anything. I'm beginning to buy into the idea that the B12 should hold their nose and add two to four teams and do a scheduling alliance with the PAC12. We would get the UT/OU buyout and have a home until the whole thing implodes and the "32" finally break away. This may be the only way to keep that from happening faster.

 

[Wexahu]

Yeah, unless the TV networks start pushing the PAC12, then I doubt they do anything. I'm beginning to buy into the idea that the B12 should hold their nose and add two to four teams and do a scheduling alliance with the PAC12. We would get the UT/OU buyout and have a home until the whole thing implodes and the "32" finally break away. This may be the only way to keep that from happening faster.

I agree. We aren't going to find a good long-term home. If we land in the PAC-12, USC and probably a couple others won't be conference mates for long, then we're just left with a 2nd-tier conference again, only the schools will be farther apart. Might as well go for the money grab.

There is just no good outcome here. NIL and transfer rules are what is killing college football. Realignment is the effect, not the cause.

 

[Bob Sugar]

I agree. We aren't going to find a good long-term home. If we land in the PAC-12, USC and probably a couple others won't be conference mates for long, then we're just left with a 2nd-tier conference again, only the schools will be farther apart. Might as well go for the money grab.

There is just no good outcome here. NIL and transfer rules are what is killing college football. Realignment is the effect, not the cause.

A second tier conference that is way better than one with the UNLVs and ECUs of the world.

 

[Wexahu]

A second tier conference that is way better than one with the UNLVs and ECUs of the world.

Oh, I know, it'll be "better".

I'm just saying, people say PAC-12 and think, "that won't be so bad, playing USC, UCLA and making cool trips to Oregon and Washington, could be a lot worse."

That isn't going to be what it's like. We'll be part of another league that has an inferiority complex and one where almost every member wishes they weren't there.

 

[Big Frog II]

I maybe wrong and probably am, but TCU has been very quite about this whole thing. I think we knew this was coming, and I think we have been working on alternatives. Hope something pans out for our benefit.

Oh, and the PAC-12 is getting ready to redo their TV package. This would be a good time to add teams in the Central time zone.

 

[Purp]

Pac 12 isn't expanding

Accept this and move on

If the PAC doesn't expand it will die just like the B12. It's only chance to survive is to acquire a bunch of central time zone games and get more national eye balls on conference games. I'd be surprised if a strategic expansion wouldn't net them a larger payout per school than they currently get. I'm not sure they'd maximize per school payout by adding all 8, though. I think the right 4, though, to take the conference to 16 would be mutually beneficial.

But the fact remains, the PAC will not survive long if it doesn't expand. They may ultimately get destroyed by a single super league anyway, but they won't make it to that point without expanding into the central time zone.

 

[Bob Sugar]

I maybe wrong and probably am, but TCU has been very quite about this whole thing. I think we knew this was coming, and I think we have been working on alternatives. Hope something pans out for our benefit.

Oh, and the PAC-12 is getting ready to redo their TV package. This would be a good time to add teams in the Central time zone.

That's how I see it. Similar to when everyone said Texas could moneywhip to hire GP away from TCU years ago. Could Texas offer an amount TCU simply couldn't match? Maybe. Would they really offer $15MM a year when the going rate was $5MM? Never. Same I see here. Fox wants to be a player here and will bust its ass to get as much content as possible. It is in Fox's best interest to have the current 12 teams from the PAC12, all the content it can get from the Big 10 and the remaining 8 teams from the Big 12. More content equals more of a chance to have a marquee, top-10 matchup each week of undefeated or 1-loss teams.

Could the Mouse moneywhip teams away? Sure. But it would cost a boatload to add just a few teams, and I am not sure that Fox couldn't match the going rate.

 

[Wexahu]

If the PAC doesn't expand it will die just like the B12. It's only chance to survive is to acquire a bunch of central time zone games and get more national eye balls on conference games. I'd be surprised if a strategic expansion wouldn't net them a larger payout per school than they currently get. I'm not sure they'd maximize per school payout by adding all 8, though. I think the right 4, though, to take the conference to 16 would be mutually beneficial.

But the fact remains, though, that the PAC will not survive long if it doesn't expand. They may ultimately get destroyed by a single super league anyway, but they won't make it to that point without expanding into the central time zone.

Expanding would be a desperation move for them, I don't think it would really materially improve or solidify their situation. They are largely in the same boat the Big 12 was except it might just hinge on one school (USC) instead of two. If USC leaves, it's seen as a second tier conference and Oregon, Washington, and everyone else for that matter are looking for a better home.

I know some don't see it this way, but if the Big 12 had expanded to 12 or 14 four years ago, it'd be in the exact same position today. Kansas, Iowa State, Texas Tech, and basically everyone else would be desperately trying to find a new home.

 

[Eight]

If the PAC doesn't expand it will die just like the B12. It's only chance to survive is to acquire a bunch of central time zone games and get more national eye balls on conference games. I'd be surprised if a strategic expansion wouldn't net them a larger payout per school than they currently get. I'm not sure they'd maximize per school payout by adding all 8, though. I think the right 4, though, to take the conference to 16 would be mutually beneficial.

But the fact remains, though, that the PAC will not survive long if it doesn't expand. They may ultimately get destroyed by a single super league anyway, but they won't make it to that point without expanding into the central time zone.

think you are correct long term for the pac though the big key is usc and uo staying with them.

adding 4 teams right now doesn't do anything for them which is why they need to actually decide if they want to be good in football and what is required or ignore the rocks ahead of them and stay the course

the addition of teams is not enough if their brand schools don't get better and usc, ucla, uo, and uw all have gotten drubbed against out of conference ranked teams the last five years.

usc does have a win over a ranked psu in the rose bowl, but remember they started that year getting beat by 46 by bama.

agree growth is needed, but it won't matter if at least a couple of those schools don't get much better and quick.