• The KillerFrogs

Houston Chronicle: Texas, Oklahoma reach out to SEC about joining conference

Palliative Care

Active Member
A little imagination goes a long ways when people are grasping at straws. No one knows who will go where.

But seriously the SEC ought to check with Missouri and A&M before considering Texas. Hell if I were them I would even call up Nebraska. The point is Texas is a primadonna who would stab everyone in the back is that is what it takes to be on top. Frankly I bet even Oklahoma does not care if Texas got in as long as it does.
Which brings me to my real point both schools should beware of what happened to Arkansas, Nebraska and even A&M,. Going to a bigger pond often rendes you a smaller fish.
 

Paul in uhh

Active Member
A little imagination goes a long ways when people are grasping at straws. No one knows who will go where.

But seriously the SEC ought to check with Missouri and A&M before considering Texas. Hell if I were them I would even call up Nebraska. The point is Texas is a primadonna who would stab everyone in the back is that is what it takes to be on top. Frankly I bet even Oklahoma does not care if Texas got in as long as it does.
Which brings me to my real point both schools should beware of what happened to Arkansas, Nebraska and even A&M,. Going to a bigger pond often rendes you a smaller fish.
Texas is asshoe!
 

Big Frog II

Active Member
I am pretty sure we knew where this was headed, it just happened quicker than we thought. Probably have been establishing some ties with the Pac-12 the past few years. Once Texas and OU did not want to extend the TV rights, we probably saw the handwriting on the wall. Now we just have to work out the best deal for us.

I too think the Big 10 and the SEC are not through throwing money around. Just stay tuned.
 

Waco Bear

Member
This is the fight I am advocating for.

Stop trying to get into the theoretical 64 team setup. Because it will be 64 teams for about 5 seconds. Then the blue bloods will begin to complain teams like Wake Forest, Oregon State and Northwestern don't carry their own weight and position themselves for a 32 team super league.

Even if we make the 64 team cut it will be a matter of time before the knives are pointed at us

Absolutely this. We aren’t going to compete with the insanity of Bama, OSU, and aTm, etc. in terms of NIL. The smaller the final group gets the *better* it is for schools like Baylor and TCU. We are both set up to be elite programs amongst the remaining 100+ schools (including 30+ leftover former P5 schools). TCU and Baylor have the best location in the nation to recruit, to attract viewers, and we both are financially backed to the hilt. Being rid of Texas’ “leadership” and meddling, and having an opportunity to be the cream of the crop nationally? I’ll take it. We need to sit back, smile and wave at Texas and OU, and play the long game. We’re gonna be fine.
 

Waco Bear

Member
one thing when comparing ratings is comparing the networks.

uh played a few early games on abc the past few years which is more accessible than one of the fox channels or some of the espn's for people

houston also just doesn't get run in the city of houston after the texans, texas, atm, and lsu.

We were terrible last year. IMO, we were worse than we were in year 1 under Rhule (1-11) and since our Kevin Steele days. Go back and look at our #s in 2019 when we were playing well. We had good numbers, especially in Houston. TCU’s presence in Dallas, and Baylor presence in Houston ( Dallas to a lesser degree) have a pretty solid footprint in Texas. The Big12 needs to play the slow game. We’re gonna bank and come out in a strong position when the BIG10 raids the PAC12. Any port in a storm, my Frog Friends. We can get back to hating each other when the dust settles.
 
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Waco Bear

Member
You were on a roll until your last few sentences.

The Big 12 isn't surviving without OU and Texas. And I think Kansas is as good as gone too, WVU is more sketchy. If the league continues to exist and tries to back fill with AAC or MWC mid card acts, it will be treated as a mid major conference in terms of TV deal money, bowl tie ins, games on networks no one watches like CBS College Sports, and having to play lots of Thursday and Friday games.

BIG10 is gonna raid PAC12. Big 12 needs to slow play this.
 

Dogfrog

Active Member
Even if the worst happens, we’ve had a winning record against each of our three in-state Big 12 conference mates over the last nine years in the B12.
See you Longhorns, you are 2-7 vs Horned Frogs last nine years. Your big payday wasn’t earned on the field.
 

Eight

Member
We were terrible last year. IMO, we were worse than we were in year 1 under Rhule (1-11) and since our Kevin Steele days. Go back and look at our #s in 2019 when we were playing well. We had good numbers, especially in Houston. TCU’s presence in Dallas, and Baylor presence in Houston ( Dallas to a lesser degree) have a pretty solid footprint in Texas. The Big12 needs to play the slow game. We’re gonna bank and come out in a strong position when the BIG10 raids the PAC12. Any port in a storm, my Frog Friends. We can get back to hating each other when the dust settles.

funny, don't recall typing that I had any interest in baylor's ratings in houston so why would i check those numbers

thinking about it, where baylor ends up when the dust settles ranks slightly above my interest in whether or not byu ends up in a conference
 

CryptoMiner

Active Member
It is tough to know what is really going now and what is just speculation. Wild speculation is easy to pick off but talk of discussions with conferences can be anything from simple phone calls to talking over drinks.

Right now UT is driving the move and Kevin Eltife is driving UT. CDC is his puppet and it is amazing to me how fast Eltife took over the AD department.

Beyond that anything you hear is 90 guesswork because it is all happening too quickly.

Will the B12 survive? Doubtful but they will try. Contact is tricky. You can’t go after USC, CO, etc and then turn around and have your teams ask to join.

Everyone is scrambling and even the best leadership is under stress.

Funny how something that started as a game has now suddenly created so much turmoil.

F Eltife!
 

NYC Horned Frog

Full Member
I just wonder if boschini and donati were on top of this. I live in Austin and my sense before this broke was that it was headed this way for quite some time.

I always thought it would be closer to 2025 when this all went down. But they haven’t been satisfied with big 12 since Nebraska and a&m left. This was always a long shot to hold the big 12 together.

TCU always had a very different perspective than pretty much everyone in the conference bc we were just happy to be here..

VB is one of the sharpest guys I’ve ever met. He almost kicked me out of TCU when I was there YEARS ago. He gave me a second shot, it all worked out, now I love to donate! I have a lot of faith in that guy. We all should. CDC was a bad ass but VB is a smart [ mother farger ]
 
And allegedly the Big12 members are planning to offer UT and OU a 50% yearly bonus to stay.

Overstated, as I already told y’all they talked about it, and the mechanism and $$ figure, but the straw poll says they probably don’t have the votes, and it appears TX isn’t interested anyways. OU would probably consider it, but they are along for the ride here.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
Absolutely this. We aren’t going to compete with the insanity of Bama, OSU, and aTm, etc. in terms of NIL. The smaller the final group gets the *better* it is for schools like Baylor and TCU. We are both set up to be elite programs amongst the remaining 100+ schools (including 30+ leftover former P5 schools). TCU and Baylor have the best location in the nation to recruit, to attract viewers, and we both are financially backed to the hilt. Being rid of Texas’ “leadership” and meddling, and having an opportunity to be the cream of the crop nationally? I’ll take it. We need to sit back, smile and wave at Texas and OU, and play the long game. We’re gonna be fine.

I agree with a lot of your perspectives, and you seem like a decent person but what is with all this "we" stuff?

Where was this we when the SWC broke up? Where was this we when TCU was ranked 3rd in 2014 and Baylor threatened to sue if they were not bumped over TCU? FYI, Alvarez has three titles hanging at Wisconsin from his coaching days where he lost the head to head of the team he was tied with for first.

I have no desire to partner or tie TCU to Baylor in hopes of a new conference.

FYI, Baylor will not out draw UH in Houston. Plus playing a game in Waco does not help recruit in Houston markets. Yes, most on this board are hypocrites. They treat UH like they were stuck in the 90s, but don't like when other Texas schools treat TCU like they were stuck in the 80s.
 

Virginia Frog

Active Member
I think the main reason this isn’t bothering me more than it is is because it was always easy to see where this was eventually headed and that the TCU’s of the world would never be a part of it. Getting left behind the first time was WAY different. At least to me it was.
It's conceivable that when the "big schools" get their way virtually ALL the private schools will be "out" with maybe Notre Dame, USC and Stanford as the exceptions. First we'll have the consolidation of the big boys/football Blue Bloods (Texas, Bama, theOSU, Michigan, Fla St, Clemson, A&M, Okie, LSU, PennSt, Georgia, Florida, etc.), then it;ll be the purge of the "small" schools of the Power 4/5: yep BC, Duke, Wake, Syracuse, NWtern, Miami, TCU, Baylor, and even Vandy.
I'll STILL be a TCU fan and WON'T be watching this "new" concoction of major college football. I'd rather watch the sorry Washington Football Team. Wow, that's really an insult!
 

jack the frog

Full Member
Long post/update here, buckle up:


I keep reading that Big 12 administrators are “shocked” at this outcome and were totally taken off guard… Of course, this is not true and only an opportunity to try and save face.


With the benefit of hindsight, one could argue this has been predictable for quite a while.


For example, one could look back to the founding of the Big 12 minus two and the opportunity the conference had to not only add West Virginia but also add Cincinnati and Louisville which were the two best options to get back to 12 at the time. Was this a perfect plan? No, but it was better than where we ended up and would’ve resulted in a more stable conference and who knows how the last decade would’ve played out. Which two schools were most adamantly against this path? Texas and OU. And it wasn’t for money reasons, the pro rata clause in our TV contract assured that.


When expansion came up again in the past five years, there was almost unanimity around moving forward with several options that were amongst those names you’ve heard over the years. Texas and OU were most against, even though we had a pro rata clause in our television contract that would’ve meant revenue would climb almost equivalently and Texas/OU would not have been harmed. Ultimately, Texas and Oklahoma preferred to negotiate with ESPN and have the pro rata clause removed from our contract in exchange for cash. They got their wish and the Big 12 got paid north of $30 million each for three big 12 championship games in football when those were added back a few years ago, a ridiculous fee that we forced ESPN into. The rest of the conference was super frustrated when this happened, because they felt like this was their moment to cement the conferences stability and get the TV networks to play along. This was the first big sign that things were not heading in the right direction, hindsight or not.


Most recently (when this all became incredibly obvious to anyone paying attention) when the league went to negotiate and find a TV partner for its remaining three football championship games, ESPN and Fox did not want to play along at first... They did not find the same value in those games that the league did(we asked for $20mm each), but they we’re willing to consider significant rights fee increases overall if the league agreed to a new television contract, similar to the ACC’s new deal. The rates offered at the time from ESPN and Fox were actually quite strong and better than the most recent negotiations. But none of this mattered because Texas and Oklahoma made clear at the time they were not interested in extending their rights beyond 2025, and used the excuse that the changing digital environment meant that we might be leaving money on the table. Fox bowed out and we were down to one major negotiating partner.


To everyone watching, including those of us in the television industry, this was a terrible decision as the cable industry was melting down and there were only gonna be a few spots left should things continue that way, but that same cable industry is still the only place that can reasonably offer the Big 12 conference the kind of money that it would want along with the exposure and distribution that it needs. Signing up with Amazon sounds brilliant, until you realize millions less will watch your product as a result, which has a profound effect on recruiting.


I distinctly remember when the Big 12 added ESPN for the final three championship games along with the Big 12 conference network on ESPN+ that there was a significant feeling around TCU and the league that this could be the beginning of the end for the conference. We got such a small amount of money for those championship games, something around $5 million per game compared to the $20 million we had wanted, which meant that we were heading in the wrong direction. Optimism won out, but as we now know that was misguided.


Of course, the most recent effort to extend our rights led to where we are today, and the story has now been well told. Just don’t let anybody convince you this was at all surprising or unpredictable, those in the room and the industry could tell this wasn’t likely to end well given the stakes. On one hand, you can’t be too mad given how much money is at stake for Texas, OU and others, we would have said yes if invited to the SEC… but that doesn’t make this feel any better since we weren’t.


I don’t have a good feeling yet for where this is headed… the dates to watch are June 2022, June 2023, and June 2025. UT and OU would love for this to be their last year, and the league would love to hold on until June 2025 when our current deals end. For several contractual reasons, June 2023 might be the right compromise with $50-100 million being paid by TX/OU to get out. The conference could still survive intact+a few new members, believe it or not, albeit a shell of its former self. That might be the better option vs a PAC 12 exodus, but it only works if we stay together… losing WVU or KU would be that final nail for sure. Lots of conversations and analysis happening, and the TV networks play a huge role… again, things are going to move both fast and slow over the next 1-3-6-12 months.

Thanks great info. As my brother and I spend all our time managing our family and their interests over the past 5 years I have been pretty well oblivious to much of this. I have believed for some time our little school ultimately would not have a place at the table long term, based mainly on the Big 10 and their 2014 additions of Rutgers and Maryland for potential TV eyes, student body size and proximity to population centers mainly. I saw that as an inexorable trend.
I guess I feel better about one thing. Any additonal success on the gridiron over the last 5 years, maybe in the form of another Big 12 title or even a single playoff appearance may not have helped. I have been frustrated with our schools decision to be parochial and small time in terms of athletic vision but in the end it may not have mattered, short of some Miami type run where the entire country was forced to take notice.
 
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