Where do we end up...? Poll

[Eight]

Agreed but we were willing to stay if the money was still there. It's drying up as our economy tanks.

still there, gary's comments have been fairly clear that the dollars weren't going away, but that they weren't going to go up similar to that of the sec, big10, and acc.

how in the world is texas running lean at this time unless the issue is not keeping up with their big 12 peers, but instead trying to keep up with the spending of the sec schools.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

a voice to whom? the mouse network? the other power conferences? the cfp?

they haven't had a representative in 5 years in the cfp and they need to do something to show they are willing to keep relevant.

if an organism doesn't evolve when its environment changes it risks extinction. we see it in science, we see it in business, and we have seen it in college sports

A. I don't think the PAC-12 is close to extinction and B. even if so I don't think any Big 12 adds would save it. I do recognize their precarious position, but any expansion model has to first and foremost make financial sense. If not I just can't see the votes being there.

 

[Froggish]

The smart money right now should be on the B12 holding together as a renamed closet version of the AAC. This is going to be a merger of some sort with the AAC. The question is will it be a complete merger or just a raiding of 4-6 programs? I could see either of those happening. Now if one of the present B12 teams (looking at you KU) jets quickly, all bets are off

 

[Eight]

A. I don't think the PAC-12 is close to extinction and B. even if so I don't think any Big 12 adds would save it. I do recognize their precarious position, but any expansion model has to first and foremost make financial sense. If not I just can't see the votes being there.

you are right, the pac has no reason to change because their current course of action is working so well for them financially. like say, wazzu's 100M deficit...

https://fishduck.com/2020/08/181064/

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02...nd-the-sec-and-big-ten-that-it-cant-catch-up/

https://theathletic.com/2524400/202...-the-pac-12-for-the-sake-of-college-football/

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02...tic-departments-run-massive-deficits-in-fy19/

https://www.bruinsnation.com/2020/7...t-dan-guerrero-third-in-country-second-pac-12
​

fairly certain though any of those deficits are short term and some gone after the revenue brought in from last year's football season right? oh wait.....

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

you are right, the pac has no reason to change because their current course of action is working so well for them financially. like say, wazzu's 100M deficit...

https://fishduck.com/2020/08/181064/

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02...nd-the-sec-and-big-ten-that-it-cant-catch-up/

https://theathletic.com/2524400/202...-the-pac-12-for-the-sake-of-college-football/

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02...tic-departments-run-massive-deficits-in-fy19/

https://www.bruinsnation.com/2020/7...t-dan-guerrero-third-in-country-second-pac-12
​

fairly certain though any of those deficits are short term and some gone after the revenue brought in from last year's football season right? oh wait.....

I didn't say it was working so well. I am questioning whether adding four Big 12 teams solves those financial issues, or perhaps even makes them worse. If it doesn't solve them or makes the bottom line numbers worse, I have a tough time seeing that they will have the votes for expansion.

 

[berryfrog95]

Tight results currently:

44 PAC 16
43 Debbie Downers

 

[asleep003]

I didn't say it was working so well. I am questioning whether adding four Big 12 teams solves those financial issues, or perhaps even makes them worse. If it doesn't solve them or makes the bottom line numbers worse, I have a tough time seeing that they will have the votes for expansion.

The P12 desperately needs to move their viewership from almost a solely 60,000,000 MKT to the CST viewership too, which could help increase viewership contracts up significantly... while also increasing interest in their own existing football MKT.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

The P12 desperately needs to move their viewership from almost a solely 60,000,000 MKT to the CST viewership too, which could help increase viewership contracts up significantly... while also increasing interest in their own limited MKT.

I get that in theory; I'm not sure in practice it will improve the bottom line enough. Maybe it will when they come up with the model and get their consultant's research. But it is far from a sure thing.

 

[KillerFrog InD KitchenSink]

 

[Horned Toad]

Bottom line, the PAC 16 won’t happen unless the money is there for it to happen. End of story.

 

[Pharm Frog]

No, it's not going to increase the payout but it may.

Bold

 

[StinnettFrog]

Agree to disagree then, and until someone shows me numbers, I don't believe we out draw Tech. Tech has more alumni in DFW than we do in the world. Yeah, larger alumni base an all that, but they put more eyes on TVs in DFW than we do based purely on the face more of those eyes exist for them than they do us. They've not been good for a while, but they still have a very loyal audience. You really think there are more people watching TCU games than Tech games? The math just doesn't add up.

And the Pac thing was done, just needed the signatures. That's also based on boosters and people "in the know". My wife is a 3rd generation Tech grad, and her dad's best friend is on the Board of Directors, and was when all that went down. I heard it from his mouth.

I'm not going to get into the academics. Sure they're not UT or OU, but they're just fine. Getting their vet school in Amarillo was a really big deal. They stood down aggy and got it done, and their getting close to Tier 1.

My point in all of this is I love TCU as much as any of us, but we're just not the national or even state brand a lot of think we are. That's not me comparing it to any other school, that just saying it based on us alone.

I didn't go to TCU, but I adopted the team when I moved here in 92 and almost everyone I know who lives in this area supports the Frogs even though they didn't attend. I think TCU has a lot more support from the community than some of you guys seem to think. I say yes that TCU definitely pulls more viewers in DFW than Tech does.

 

[BrewingFrog]

A number of fascinating points here...

Yet, 1.) Is this 'UT and OU to the SEC' thing a done deal? All inked and blotted? Nothing left to do but grab some Scotch and a good cigar?

2.) If #1 is indeed a done deal, the the BIGXII is Dead Conference Walking. It was essentially a vehicle to showcase UT anyway, and if that's done, well...

3.) Del Conte had to have been the prime mover here. I can't see that guy taking a back seat to anybody in full negotiating mode. I find it curious that he didn't give his old buddy Donati a heads up on all this. Maybe he did. Maybe there's some things already percolating that we have no knowledge of. You know, like this UT OU thing 48 hours ago...

4.) Everybody is fixated on ESPN/Disney in terms of broadcast rights. They're not the only game in town anymore. Amazon, YouTube, Netflix, all have the need for content, and have a zillion subscribers who will be ecstatic to get games without the ESPN baggage (5 minute commercial breaks, with the Same Damned Ads). They don't have to adhere to the normal rules of syndication/local broadcast/etc. They can do what they damned well please.

5.) Merge the PAC with the headless corpse of the BIGXII. Cut loose some deadwood (Baylor). Call it the Great Western Conference, or better, the Biggest Football Determinant*. Work out a Tier 1 arrangement with Amazon, or whoever. Profit!



*Who doesn't want to be in the BFD?

 

[WhoDatFrog]

texas has been looking for an out since the conference was formed as had they had their way they were gone back in the 90's

fox and espn's refusal to negotiate might have been the triggering event, but the foundations of the big 12 were shaky from the beginning

Were ESPN's & Fox's refusal to negotiate a "triggering event," or were they already aware of UT's & OU's flirtation with the SEC.
I can't keep the timeline of all of these realignment events over the years straight.

 

[Eight]

A number of fascinating points here...

Yet, 1.) Is this 'UT and OU to the SEC' thing a done deal? All inked and blotted? Nothing left to do but grab some Scotch and a good cigar?

2.) If #1 is indeed a done deal, the the BIGXII is Dead Conference Walking. It was essentially a vehicle to showcase UT anyway, and if that's done, well...

3.) Del Conte had to have been the prime mover here. I can't see that guy taking a back seat to anybody in full negotiating mode. I find it curious that he didn't give his old buddy Donati a heads up on all this. Maybe he did. Maybe there's some things already percolating that we have no knowledge of. You know, like this UT OU thing 48 hours ago...

4.) Everybody is fixated on ESPN/Disney in terms of broadcast rights. They're not the only game in town anymore. Amazon, YouTube, Netflix, all have the need for content, and have a zillion subscribers who will be ecstatic to get games without the ESPN baggage (5 minute commercial breaks, with the Same Damned Ads). They don't have to adhere to the normal rules of syndication/local broadcast/etc. They can do what they damned well please.

5.) Merge the PAC with the headless corpse of the BIGXII. Cut loose some deadwood (Baylor). Call it the Great Western Conference, or better, the Biggest Football Determinant*. Work out a Tier 1 arrangement with Amazon, or whoever. Profit!



*Who doesn't want to be in the BFD?

cdc was not the prime mover here since this has been a desire of texas since the mild 90's. heck, he might have been there just to take hicks' coffee order and he might have been working the back channels but the push for this comes from the texas regents and the bmd's

 

[Frozen Frog]

The Pac 12 has a network. They have series of channels. There is only so much television they can fill with their current slate, and they aren't getting views outside of their immediate areas. There might be a deal to be made!

 

[BrewingFrog]

cdc was not the prime mover here since this has been a desire of texas since the mild 90's. heck, he might have been there just to take hicks' coffee order and he might have been working the back channels but the push for this comes from the texas regents and the bmd's

Oh, I understand the desire to seek Greener Pastures from the UT folk. It's what led to the BIGXII in the first place, and also the strange flirtation with the PAC back in the day. Yet, in each of those scenarios, UT was the prime mover and ultimate boss of the situation. DeLoss shook off the PAC thing when he realized he wouldn't be the Satrap of the new arrangement.

UT and OU will be taking subordinate positions in any arrangement with the SEC. Otherwise the old mossbacks of the Conference would never really consider it. That 3/4 vote on the matter makes this a must, in that A&M is already a solid NO. CDC is not DeLoss, in that his ego is simply not as titanic. He'll take any deal like this, in that he cements his legacy as The Man Who Sold UT to The SEC. Obviously they all feel that this makes the SEC far and away the Premier Conference, and that they would never have made such a deal if they didn't already have the tacit approval of ESPN/Disney. Everything else becomes a sideshow.

 

[Virginia Frog]

The bridesmaid won't be Iowa State, it will be Baylor.
ACC doesn't need WV they already have Pitt. WV also doesn't qualify academically.
None of the Big12 leftovers move the TV needle enough to get invited to the ACC or PAC.
PAC does need Central Time Zone teams or they will slowly die. We are their best option considering academics, location, facilities, recruiting, etc.

I hope you are right that the Texas schools solidify. It's our best chance if the Twelve bust up, IMO.

Most of this board I'm sure would like to see Baylor wandering alone in the desert but I've always advocated that TCU-Baylor is in our long term interest - yea, they did screw us royally back in 1994. BU is better for us geographically and competitively than K-State (ultimately, K-St and ISU are TCU-BU's competition if the Pac decides to go to 16).

TT makes me limp and their positioning themselves as "much improved academically" and "getting more TV eyeballs" in DFW and Houston, and a "non-church/public school" all are good for them (and maybe true to some extent) but they add no class (and more re-t*rds per capita than BU - I'd bet.)

In the case of a 12 bust-up, OkieSt/T.Boone Memorial Univ WILL find a Power 4/5 home. That is WHO we need to align with. What THEY tell the PAC leadership as to invitations will have impact.

 

[Austintxfrog94]

PAC 16 is on our non-conf Schedule 5 years In-a-row starting last year. Just makes you wonder if that was by design.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Screw Baylor. There's not a single redeeming aspect of that swollen leech (well, maybe the Law School) that is worth associating with. Given the chance, they should be booted to oblivion.