• The KillerFrogs

Does TCU require vaccinations?

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
Those weren't experimental when your parents gave them to you were they?

My parents never administered a vaccine to me.

Don’t know about experimental, but many of them were very new. But, then again, none of the the Covid vaccines are experimental either. All the approved vaccines were put through standard testing before being rolled out to the public.
 
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Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
Your response is fueled with so many logical fallacies.

Just because you got the vaccine without ill effects doesn't mean everyone else will. I recovered from Covid without ill effects. Does your same logic apply?

And lol at you bringing up your MD brother as if you have some kind of exclusive insight. You don't think I have family and close friends that are MDs too? Many of them strongly disagree with your "educated" brother. Speaking of your brother that is "actually educated." How much time did he spend learning about mRNA vaccines in med school? What kind of medicine does he practice? Does it have anything to do with the new mRNA vaccine technology at all? Have his opinions been formed on his own through the analysis of data? Or does he just blindly follow the popular opinion of his peers that were educated by schools and many who are now employed by hospitals that are largely funded by big pharma?

I had Covid before being vaccinated also and had no ill effects. What data can you show that there is any mass detrimental effects from the vaccines? I don’t know if you have any friends or relatives or not. But if they are telling their patients not to be vaccinated, then they are certainly among a very small minority. In fact I can’t think of a single doctor recommending against vaccinations.

Do you really want my brother’s CV to review? Are you qualified to tell him his education (granted it was UT med) isn’t worthy of your approval?

Look we all know your knee jerk reactions to many things. You can do as you wish, but when you refute practices in the face of the majority of the medical profession you just come off sounding a bit crazy.
 

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
Good for your brother

ask him to tell you what is incorrect in Maniacs first 5 lines - because he is not wrong on those statements and people who don’t get the difference between the current state of this vaccine and the others “we all have gotten” are just being blindly led

I support getting it - but stop acting like it’s the same “science” and has the same testing and track record of MMR, etc

and I was an MD before you were born…and the birth defects found in the children of early mumps vaccine recipients occurred YEARS after administration as one point of reference

You were practicing medicine in the 40s?

Well, I would actually have to present him with those actual points, but then I’m not sure I’d understand the science anyway. I’m not arguing science, but the main point I get from your post is that you do support getting the vaccine which is the crux of the the whole matter.
 
According to the American Medical Association, more than 96% of physicians are fully vaccinated for COVID.

Currently, virtually all deaths and hospitalizations for COVID are among the unvaccinated.

The reason we are largely mask free right now and will be able to have a full football stadium this fall is because of those that have been vaccinated.

The number of people that have possibly died of a vaccine complication is miniscule compared to the number of people that have died of COVID infection.

For the unvaccinated, even if you are of low risk to die of COVID, if you get COVID, how do you know that you did not spread it to someone who is more vulnerable? An important part of a vaccination program is protecting others.
 

Bob Sugar

Active Member
It is sickening how this is being made a liberal-conservative thing. With otherwise sane? people believing a conspiracy theory by the entire medical community. 600,000 people dead. Never before even with wars. But maybe another big gut of deaths due to stupidity.
You can thank politicians and the media for that. A significant portion of the vaccine hesitancy crowd vote liberal, but you wouldn't know that from the talking heads on the boob tube.
 

HFrog1999

Member
I had Covid before being vaccinated also and had no ill effects. What data can you show that there is any mass detrimental effects from the vaccines? I don’t know if you have any friends or relatives or not. But if they are telling their patients not to be vaccinated, then they are certainly among a very small minority. In fact I can’t think of a single doctor recommending against vaccinations.

Do you really want my brother’s CV to review? Are you qualified to tell him his education (granted it was UT med) isn’t worthy of your approval?

Look we all know your knee jerk reactions to many things. You can do as you wish, but when you refute practices in the face of the majority of the medical profession you just come off sounding a bit crazy.


Good for you


I go to my doctor for medical advice, not the media, bureaucrats, or brothers of guys on the internet

Vaccine decisions should be made between doctors and patients
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
... then again, none of the the Covid vaccines are experimental either. All the approved vaccines were put through standard testing before being rolled out to the public.
On this, you are incorrect. None of the vaccines are fully tested or approved. They are being distributed through an emergency use declaration, which bypasses the normal testing and bureaucratic barriers. I would encourage you to look into this further for yourself.

As for the emergency use declaration, for this to come in to effect, there must be no viable alternatives for treatment. Remember the hostility towards the various potential preventative treatments? Hmmm...
 

tcumaniac

Full Member
I had Covid before being vaccinated also and had no ill effects. What data can you show that there is any mass detrimental effects from the vaccines? I don’t know if you have any friends or relatives or not. But if they are telling their patients not to be vaccinated, then they are certainly among a very small minority. In fact I can’t think of a single doctor recommending against vaccinations.

Do you really want my brother’s CV to review? Are you qualified to tell him his education (granted it was UT med) isn’t worthy of your approval?

Look we all know your knee jerk reactions to many things. You can do as you wish, but when you refute practices in the face of the majority of the medical profession you just come off sounding a bit crazy.
Although it's antiquated and difficult to extrapolate data, VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) is the official database for reporting adverse effects. The website openvaers.com does a good job sorting the raw data into a digestible state. Per the reports, there have been nearly 11,000 covid vaccine related deaths, 30,781 covid vaccine related hospitalizations, and 463,436 covid vaccine related adverse event reports. It is assumed that these reports only represent a small percentage of the true numbers.

No medical professional I know is simply telling every patient not to get vaccinated, but it's a much more complex conversation than the "shut up and get the shot" narrative from so many on this board. For instance, if you have recovered from covid and have natural immunity which data is showing likely leads to broad, long term immunity, it almost never makes sense to get the vaccine. Sure, the odds are that you end up being fine like you seemingly did, but there's really not much evidence that shows it improves your immunity, but there is evidence that those who have recovered from the virus have a higher risk of adverse events as a result of the vaccine. Another example are young women of child bearing age. There are lots of reports of women having severe reactions after the vaccine in regards to their menstrual cycle and there's no long term data on the effects of the vaccine on fertility. Many doctors are cautioning their young women patients that still want to have kids to hold off on the vaccine. Personally, I know two couples that had miscarriages scary soon after the pregnant wife received her second vaccine shot.

And yes. If you are going to cite your MD brother as some source of infallible truth, I think it's important to justify why. Med school spends relatively VERY little time addressing vaccines, and practically no practicing MD spent any time in med school learning about mRNA vaccines. Very few MDs practice medicine that has anything to do with a deep understanding of vaccines. In it's current state, most educated decisions regarding this current vaccine can only be made by the extrapolation and interpretation of data, which many doctors are not taking the time to do (many are). This current "Shut up and get the shot. It's perfectly safe" narrative is intellectually lazy and quite honestly is the antithesis of science.
 
My parents never administered a vaccine to me.

Don’t know about experimental, but many of them were very new. But, then again, none of the the Covid vaccines are experimental either. All the approved vaccines were put through standard testing before being rolled out to the public.
OK fine you got me. Your parents didn't stick the needle in your arm. But they provided consent and transportation to the vaccination facility did they not?

The Covid vaccine is not FDA approved and and is being distributed under an emergency authorization. You are in fact in a trial. you can argue semantics if.you'd like but I'd call that experimental. The vaccines you got as a child may have been new, but they were FDA approved.

as to the covid vax, All the "standard" testing is not complete. The whole program was done at breakneck speed. What long term testing has been dome? At this point maybe 12.months worth from first trials.

When i determine that MY risk from COVID .outweigh the risk from the vaccine, i will take it. Not before.
 

Zubaz

Member
Although it's antiquated and difficult to extrapolate data, VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) is the official database for reporting adverse effects. The website openvaers.com does a good job sorting the raw data into a digestible state. Per the reports, there have been nearly 11,000 covid vaccine related deaths, 30,781 covid vaccine related hospitalizations, and 463,436 covid vaccine related adverse event reports. It is assumed that these reports only represent a small percentage of the true numbers.
Oh for crying out loud, now you're the one blindly accepting what some con artist is peddling without critical thinking. You're being duped, dude.

VAERS most certainly does not show 11,000 "COVID vaccine related deaths", and you know that. First, you know darn well that database is user-submitted and not verified, but even if you were to accept that every report in the database is true, that is deliberately misreading data for a purpose that the people who aggregate the data specifically reject (of course, that's where one needs to leap to "of course they'd say that, they are covering up"). For someone that spent the last 15 months screaming "comorbidity" and "most were going to die anyway" to anyone that would listen when discussing the 620,000 COVID deaths, you really just accept this 11,000 death claim at face value and uncritically? You attempt to sleight of hand"death following vaccine" in to a causal relation of "vaccine related deaths"? Gee, it's almost as if there's a bias going on.

Again, even according to the FDA and other entities, there is a small risk associated with the vaccine. It is nowhere near the number you're spreading, by every single account. More importantly, the undeniable and objective fact is that across every single age group the risk is significantly less than the risk COVID presents.

Look, if you don't want to get vaccinated, that's fine. I totally agree that it is your choice to do as you please, just as you as a free market guy I'm sure totally agree that it is others' choice to not do business with unvaccinated individuals if they don't want to. If you want to say "look, I'm uncomfortable with it, I'll wait and see" then cool. The data isn't on your side, but I get the fear of the unknown. Fine. There's just no need to be dishonest about it.

This current "Shut up and get the shot. It's perfectly safe" narrative is intellectually lazy and quite honestly is the antithesis of science.
Nobody is saying "shut up and get the shot", but your objections are not free from criticism either. If you come up with silly and factually incorrect claims to justify your decision, you are going to get pushback for people calling them out as exactly that.
 

tcumaniac

Full Member
Oh for crying out loud, now you're the one blindly accepting what some con artist is peddling without critical thinking. You're being duped, dude.

VAERS most certainly does not show 11,000 "COVID vaccine related deaths", and you know that. First, you know darn well that database is user-submitted and not verified, but even if you were to accept that every report in the database is true, that is deliberately misreading data for a purpose that the people who aggregate the data specifically reject (of course, that's where one needs to leap to "of course they'd say that, they are covering up"). For someone that spent the last 15 months screaming "comorbidity" and "most were going to die anyway" to anyone that would listen when discussing the 620,000 COVID deaths, you really just accept this 11,000 death claim at face value and uncritically? You attempt to sleight of hand"death following vaccine" in to a causal relation of "vaccine related deaths"? Gee, it's almost as if there's a bias going on.

Again, even according to the FDA and other entities, there is a small risk associated with the vaccine. It is nowhere near the number you're spreading, by every single account. More importantly, the undeniable and objective fact is that across every single age group the risk is significantly less than the risk COVID presents.

Look, if you don't want to get vaccinated, that's fine. I totally agree that it is your choice to do as you please, just as you as a free market guy I'm sure totally agree that it is others' choice to not do business with unvaccinated individuals if they don't want to. If you want to say "look, I'm uncomfortable with it, I'll wait and see" then cool. The data isn't on your side, but I get the fear of the unknown. Fine. There's just no need to be dishonest about it.


Nobody is saying "shut up and get the shot", but your objections are not free from criticism either. If you come up with silly and factually incorrect claims to justify your decision, you are going to get pushback for people calling them out as exactly that.
Who is the con artist I'm blindly accepting?

Why do you think VAERS does not show that? It does. And sure, the data is not verified, but as you somewhat pointed out, neither are the "620,000 covid deaths." What else are we supposed to go off of? Many, if not most, reports submitted to VAERS are submitted by doctors on behalf of their patients. I'm not using slight of hand. There are 20,513 deaths following the vaccine that are reported. 11,000 of those are are thought to be a result of the vaccine. Sure the data is imperfect, but just as I can't prove every death and severe reaction wasn't caused by the vaccine, you can't prove they weren't.

"More importantly, the undeniable and objective fact is that across every single age group the risk is significantly less than the risk COVID presents."
This statement patently false.

Nobody is saying "shut up and get the shot." You clearly aren't paying attention.
 

What Up Toad

Active Member
Although it's antiquated and difficult to extrapolate data, VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) is the official database for reporting adverse effects. The website openvaers.com does a good job sorting the raw data into a digestible state. Per the reports, there have been nearly 11,000 covid vaccine related deaths, 30,781 covid vaccine related hospitalizations, and 463,436 covid vaccine related adverse event reports. It is assumed that these reports only represent a small percentage of the true numbers.

No medical professional I know is simply telling every patient not to get vaccinated, but it's a much more complex conversation than the "shut up and get the shot" narrative from so many on this board. For instance, if you have recovered from covid and have natural immunity which data is showing likely leads to broad, long term immunity, it almost never makes sense to get the vaccine. Sure, the odds are that you end up being fine like you seemingly did, but there's really not much evidence that shows it improves your immunity, but there is evidence that those who have recovered from the virus have a higher risk of adverse events as a result of the vaccine. Another example are young women of child bearing age. There are lots of reports of women having severe reactions after the vaccine in regards to their menstrual cycle and there's no long term data on the effects of the vaccine on fertility. Many doctors are cautioning their young women patients that still want to have kids to hold off on the vaccine. Personally, I know two couples that had miscarriages scary soon after the pregnant wife received her second vaccine shot.

And yes. If you are going to cite your MD brother as some source of infallible truth, I think it's important to justify why. Med school spends relatively VERY little time addressing vaccines, and practically no practicing MD spent any time in med school learning about mRNA vaccines. Very few MDs practice medicine that has anything to do with a deep understanding of vaccines. In it's current state, most educated decisions regarding this current vaccine can only be made by the extrapolation and interpretation of data, which many doctors are not taking the time to do (many are). This current "Shut up and get the shot. It's perfectly safe" narrative is intellectually lazy and quite honestly is the antithesis of science.

VAERS is how they were able to recognize the blot clot issues with the J&J vaccine.

However, VAERS has a number of limitations. Anyone can submit a report, so you can have reports that are incomplete or inaccurate in the data. For a layperson who doesn't understand statistics, it's also very difficult to come to a conclusion from this data.

The idea that the MMR vaccine caused autism started from similar data. Parents said that their children were getting the MMR vaccine and then their children became diagnosed with autism sometime after. It turned out that when autism tends to manifest was coincidentally around the same time that the MMR vaccine was being administered, but by the time that was verifiably proven, plenty of people had taken correlation to mean causation and rang the alarm bells.

I agree that you should consult with your doctor before getting the vaccine if you're hesitant, and that there may be no need to get the vaccine if you've already contracted COVID, but the skepticism is largely unfounded and the risks/unknowns have largely been blown out of proportion.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
VAERS is how they were able to recognize the blot clot issues with the J&J vaccine.

However, VAERS has a number of limitations. Anyone can submit a report, so you can have reports that are incomplete or inaccurate in the data. For a layperson who doesn't understand statistics, it's also very difficult to come to a conclusion from this data.

The idea that the MMR vaccine caused autism started from similar data. Parents said that their children were getting the MMR vaccine and then their children became diagnosed with autism sometime after. It turned out that when autism tends to manifest was coincidentally around the same time that the MMR vaccine was being administered, but by the time that was verifiably proven, plenty of people had taken correlation to mean causation and rang the alarm bells.

I agree that you should consult with your doctor before getting the vaccine if you're hesitant, and that there may be no need to get the vaccine if you've already contracted COVID, but the skepticism is largely unfounded and the risks/unknowns have largely been blown out of proportion.

I'd say that people over 50 should probably consider getting the shot, unless they've already had COVID and recovered, then it probably doesn't really matter. I'd say people over 70 should probably get the shot. I'd say any healthy person under 40 it really makes not one goddamn bit of difference whether they get the shot or not. I think testing college athletes before they are allowed to compete is completely dumb. I don't care whether people get the shot or not. The vaccine is out there for those that want it.

If you're vaccinated, why do you care if I am?
 
Any death temporally associated with the vaccine is reported on VAERS. The vast majority of deaths have been or will end up being attributed to other causes. So far no indication this rate is higher than other vaccines. Because the Covid vaccine is under EUA, all deaths are required to be reported by providers, not just ones that meet a more narrow criteria:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-vaers-death-reports-not-verified/7587577002/


COVID-19 vaccine has broader reporting requirements
One reason for the inflated reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination is that healthcare providers are required to report all serious adverse events, regardless of whether they think they're related to the shot.

“Healthcare providers’ reporting requirements (for COVID-19 vaccines) are much broader than for other vaccines,” Shimabukuro told USA TODAY.

After someone receives a COVID-19 vaccine, their healthcare provider is required by law to report all serious adverse health events, even if the provider does not think the vaccine caused that event. These events can include death, inpatient hospitalization or a serious case of COVID-19. That reporting protocol is due to the fact that the FDA authorized the COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use.

For other vaccines — such as the flu vaccine and the measles, mumps and rubella vaccines — the requirements are different. According to Shimabukuro, providers do not have to report deaths or other adverse events for FDA-approved vaccines unless they fit specific criteria of reportable events.
 
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