Moose Stuff
Active Member
Very racist IMO.
2023-2024 European Football Thread
- Thread starter Portland Frog
- Start date
Very racist IMO.
Purp
Active Member
Wouldn't it be super racist?
ARSEnal level in the 97th minute. Didn't watch, but that much stoppage time is ridiculous unless a guy went off in the 2nd half and is now in surgery.
TCUBetterThanYou
Active Member
Your COYS is showing.
Moose Stuff
Active Member
Purp
Active Member
I've been a Fulham supporter since McBride went there.
Purp
Active Member
Heard about this in the first half of the United match today. Apparently the Premier League has denied it vehemently. If it happens it will effectively destroy the top leagues in Europe. Serie A is basically 2-3 clubs. La Liga, 2 clubs. Bundesliga, 1-2 clubs. Ligue 1, 1-2 clubs. Premier League, 4-6 clubs. Take them away from those leagues and a lot less money and eye balls watch them. Could be a huge boon for MLS, though.
Purp
Active Member
After sleeping on this Super League idea, I still very much don't like it, but I think I'm going to withdraw my opposition to it. At some point, I may even become a full throated supporter of it with more time to think on it. It's my libertarian sensibilities that make me lean this way. My 2nd wave of thoughts go as follows:
1) Markets work. My initial visceral reaction against it was largely fed by a belief that this was undergirded by a new and higher level of FIFA corruption we'd not yet seen, which would have meant it wasn't a market based proposition and, instead, was a monopoly based power grab enabled and facilitated by government (in a round-about way). Once FIFA came out in such staunch opposition to it I realized then that this may very well be a truly market based decision by these clubs. My belief that markets work will ultimately result in fans (the consumers in the marketplace) deciding whether or not this is a good idea. I'm okay with that.
2) FIFA stands to be a victim in all of this since it is clearly not sanctioned by them. FIFA, along with the IOC, NCAA, EU, U.S., Chinese, Russian, and almost every Middle Eastern countries' governments remains as one of the most corrupt organization in world history. I'd be a hypocrite if my disdain for corrupt governments and governing bodies was made subordinate to something else. I love the European football model, but I also love to see corrupt organizations suffer. Without the money from these clubs FIFA stands to be a huge loser in this.
3) Will it truly destroy the existing hierarchy of leagues in Europe or might it make them more competitive and better? Money from foreign nations has destroyed any semblance of competitive parity in the English game and it's beginning to happen in other countries as well. The allure of owning a top English club is one thing, but the revenue that comes from the multiple competitions they play deep into every year is even more attractive. If all that money goes to the ESL clubs that previous had no chance at silverware will be given new life. Clubs in England with massive tradition and history who have languished for several decades ever since the EPL was corporatized might now have a legitimate shot at restoring their former glory. Clubs taking on massive debt in an attempt to compete with City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc. can now make more sensible economic decisions with a greater opportunity for success. Americans can now watch 2nd division English Championship games on ESPN+ so I have little doubt real fans would be able to continue to watch what they want in Europe's traditional top leagues.
4) I'm rooting for this very thing to happen in NCAA football (as long as TCU is included) so why should I root against it in professional sport? Perhaps this could even be the impetus needed to push the major college football powers to break away from and totally destroy the NCAA. A man can dream, right?
Long story short, I do think this has a chance to improve a lot of things in the sport. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that FIFA and the major European federations/associations will be able to apply enough pressure to win out. I think the threat of ESL players being ineligible for the World Cup is a very compelling card being played at the moment. I honestly don't think I'd care as much about the World Cup if the Christiano Ronaldos and Messis of the world aren't eligible to compete. It would quickly fall to the same status as the Olympics. This league won't succeed without the best players in the world.
The legal wrangling around this will be fascinating to watch. The best player in the world stand to make multiples of their current salaries so there's a massive financial incentive for them to want this. But is it worth losing the ability to represent your country in the World Cup? We'll see how this all shakes out, but right now I'm noticing myself drift away from the cacophony of aspersions deriding this announcement to a more neutral position. Either, everything ultimately stays mostly the same and I'm happy or FIFA gets kicked squarely in the nuts over and over again and I'm happy.
Am I missing something?
1) Markets work. My initial visceral reaction against it was largely fed by a belief that this was undergirded by a new and higher level of FIFA corruption we'd not yet seen, which would have meant it wasn't a market based proposition and, instead, was a monopoly based power grab enabled and facilitated by government (in a round-about way). Once FIFA came out in such staunch opposition to it I realized then that this may very well be a truly market based decision by these clubs. My belief that markets work will ultimately result in fans (the consumers in the marketplace) deciding whether or not this is a good idea. I'm okay with that.
2) FIFA stands to be a victim in all of this since it is clearly not sanctioned by them. FIFA, along with the IOC, NCAA, EU, U.S., Chinese, Russian, and almost every Middle Eastern countries' governments remains as one of the most corrupt organization in world history. I'd be a hypocrite if my disdain for corrupt governments and governing bodies was made subordinate to something else. I love the European football model, but I also love to see corrupt organizations suffer. Without the money from these clubs FIFA stands to be a huge loser in this.
3) Will it truly destroy the existing hierarchy of leagues in Europe or might it make them more competitive and better? Money from foreign nations has destroyed any semblance of competitive parity in the English game and it's beginning to happen in other countries as well. The allure of owning a top English club is one thing, but the revenue that comes from the multiple competitions they play deep into every year is even more attractive. If all that money goes to the ESL clubs that previous had no chance at silverware will be given new life. Clubs in England with massive tradition and history who have languished for several decades ever since the EPL was corporatized might now have a legitimate shot at restoring their former glory. Clubs taking on massive debt in an attempt to compete with City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc. can now make more sensible economic decisions with a greater opportunity for success. Americans can now watch 2nd division English Championship games on ESPN+ so I have little doubt real fans would be able to continue to watch what they want in Europe's traditional top leagues.
4) I'm rooting for this very thing to happen in NCAA football (as long as TCU is included) so why should I root against it in professional sport? Perhaps this could even be the impetus needed to push the major college football powers to break away from and totally destroy the NCAA. A man can dream, right?
Long story short, I do think this has a chance to improve a lot of things in the sport. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that FIFA and the major European federations/associations will be able to apply enough pressure to win out. I think the threat of ESL players being ineligible for the World Cup is a very compelling card being played at the moment. I honestly don't think I'd care as much about the World Cup if the Christiano Ronaldos and Messis of the world aren't eligible to compete. It would quickly fall to the same status as the Olympics. This league won't succeed without the best players in the world.
The legal wrangling around this will be fascinating to watch. The best player in the world stand to make multiples of their current salaries so there's a massive financial incentive for them to want this. But is it worth losing the ability to represent your country in the World Cup? We'll see how this all shakes out, but right now I'm noticing myself drift away from the cacophony of aspersions deriding this announcement to a more neutral position. Either, everything ultimately stays mostly the same and I'm happy or FIFA gets kicked squarely in the nuts over and over again and I'm happy.
Am I missing something?
Eight
Member
will there be equity in compensation among the genders?
Purp
Active Member
Maybe I should add that as #5 in my list.
dawg
Active Member
Bayern and Dortmund reportedly refused to join. I may need to switch allegiances.
What an absolutely stupid idea. On the day it was announced, Juventus lost to Atlanta and sit two points above fifth. Arsenal, currently 9th, needed a 97th minute goal to draw soon-to-be relegated Fullham. Not sure what can be done to stop it.
What an absolutely stupid idea. On the day it was announced, Juventus lost to Atlanta and sit two points above fifth. Arsenal, currently 9th, needed a 97th minute goal to draw soon-to-be relegated Fullham. Not sure what can be done to stop it.
dawg
Active Member
Perez (Madrid chairman and chair of the SL) has a plan.
“If the players participating in the European Super League are banned from playing the 2022 World Cup in Qatar, we will create our own World Cup tournament. It is not a big deal.”
https://www.si.com/soccer/liverpool/news/perez-prepared-to-create-new-world-cup
You are spot-on about FIFA. They can't [ hundin] about money ruling the sport after "submission process" that awarded the 2018 and 2022 World Cups.
Purp
Active Member
Honestly, I'm in support of anything that leads to the demise of FIFA. That said, I have little doubt this would ultimately result in a shift from one bastion of corruption to a new bastion of corruption. We'll see. I honestly hope PSG and Bayern join. I mentioned before that each major league is really only a competition between as few as 1-2 and as much as 4-6 clubs every year. If Bundesliga and Ligue 1 aren't poached then they will dominate all European competitions.
Purp
Active Member
I watched that Juventus game. Pirlo has a lot of great young pieces, still needs that extra piece. Ronaldo was also out, which made a difference. Also, Atalanta aren't a piddly side this season. That wasn't a shameful loss. The Juve troubles are rooted in a transition from the old guard to the new that is in process and retarded quite a bit by the pandemic. Juve will likely be back on top of Serie A next season if this ESL doesn't happen. ARSEnal, though, are a completely different story. Their inclusion is sort of like Baylor joining the newly formed B12 after the SWC blew up. The difference is ARSEnal at least has a rich history of success where Baylor had a rich history of spectacular failure.
dawg
Active Member
Purp
Active Member
I've made this point already. I thought Spurs was a silly inclusion too, but you made reference specifically to Juve and Gunners so I didn't have to bring up Tottenham.
One of these 12 is not like the others. I kid.
dawg
Active Member
+4
Isn't that the whole point. The bigger clubs are spending so much money, that going a year or two without champions league money can totally effect their overall operations. It is a way for them to prevent downside risk if they stop competing at a elite level for a couple of years. Investors are paying so much money now that they want to ensure future income.
I hate the idea, and I hope it does not happen. However, it seems like the train might be leaving the station for real this time.
