Frogs vs. Rock Chalk

[BrewingFrog]

Sure Wex. The staff sees the program still in the 'building' stage. They are trying to build the program instead of just putting out 'teams' each year.

They think that is the only way to have sustained success over the long haul versus the more traditional basketball schools in the B12.

I am not attacking you, Skip, when I say this, as you are just the messenger and all, but how does one "build" a program by losing? Success begets success.

To quote a person intimately connected with the Basketball Program at TCU: "Didn't anybody come here to win?"

 

[Skip Jansen]

What exactly is building? I'm very confused by that statement. Also - numbers don't lie and Dixon is paid like a top 25 coach.

Jake-

The building aspect is in reference to 'creating a basketball culture'. Doing that by laying a foundation at a school that quite frankly has never had one.

TCU has the least amount of tradition, fan support, etc. of all the B12 school. That's just a fact. It takes time to build that up.

 

[Skip Jansen]

I am not attacking you, Skip, when I say this, as you are just the messenger and all, but how does one "build" a program by losing? Success begets success.

To quote a person intimately connected with the Basketball Program at TCU: "Didn't anybody come here to win?"

I know you aren't attacking me. And, I agree that winning has to be the standard. But... let me ask you a couple of questions?

-Where do you think TCU is in the pecking order of B12 basketball schools?

-Do you think the other 9 B12 schools put an emphasis on winning as well?

 

[Skip Jansen]

skip, miles merely in a slump or our teams on to how to play him in the frogs halfcourt offense?

Eight-

I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago. B12 teams have a book (scouting report) on him.

They all saw him play in HS and AAU. They are familiar with him. It took me about 5 minutes of watching him to see where his weaknesses were. If it took me 5 mins, how long do you think it took Bill Self or Bob Huggins?

He'll have to make an adjustment, but that's part of the deal. B12 basketball is a tough proving ground.

 

[Eight]

Eight-

I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago. B12 teams have a book (scouting report) on him.

They all saw him play in HS and AAU. They are familiar with him. It took me about 5 minutes of watching him to see where his weaknesses were. If it took me 5 mins, how long do you think it took Bill Self or Bob Huggins?

He'll have to make an adjustment, but that's part of the deal. B12 basketball is a tough proving ground.

really not looking forward to this halfcourt offense against baylor, tech, and texas on defense

 

[geezer]

Jake-

The building aspect is in reference to 'creating a basketball culture'. Doing that by laying a foundation at a school that quite frankly has never had one.

TCU has the least amount of tradition, fan support, etc. of all the B12 school. That's just a fact. It takes time to build that up.

Those who were attending basketball games at TCU during the 1967-1971 time frame would disagree.

TCU was a basketball school...with 2 SWC titles in a 4-year span.

Compare that to where we're at now.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Pecking order? There are many ways to go with that. In terms of, as you noted above, fan support? Lousy. It breaks my heart to tune in and see the place pretty much empty. I have lamented this, and the Ticketholders have literally snarled back "We try to give the tickets away, but nobody wants them!" I live six hours away from Fort Worth. I can't be of much help on that account. The kids show up some, but getting the living crap beaten out of you by Kansas tends to demoralize casual fans. As to funding, there's plenty. I do not know where we stand from a school-to-school basis, but I imagine we are near the top. In terms of Program Recognition, middle of the pack. We have never shown consistency. Ever. It is mystifying.

All the Programs put an emphasis on winning. Guys don't play sports because they enjoy losing. I remember the Women's Coach a long time ago, telling me that he had played College ball with the old Utah Jazz point guard (name escapes me) and that "he was the most competitive guy I have ever known. He'd slice your nuts off for a $1 bet." No, I do not believe that Dixon thinks it's O.K. to lose, but I am confused by the concept of "building" without consistency, and building success without winning. Nothing lasting was built on moral victories. At some point, you're gonna have to smack some heads...

I fully believe Dixon can do it. He has it in him. Hell, I was in the building when he hit The Shot!

 

[Skip Jansen]

Those who were attending basketball games at TCU during the 1967-1971 time frame would disagree.

TCU was a basketball school...with 2 SWC titles in a 4-year span.

Compare that to where we're at now.

TCU was also a fixture in the SWC for a lot of years. That gave the program the opportunity to develop rivalries and have stability.

The C-USA and MWC years changed all that. The Frogs are in a good spot now in the B12.

 

[Skip Jansen]

Pecking order? There are many ways to go with that. In terms of, as you noted above, fan support? Lousy. It breaks my heart to tune in and see the place pretty much empty. I have lamented this, and the Ticketholders have literally snarled back "We try to give the tickets away, but nobody wants them!" I live six hours away from Fort Worth. I can't be of much help on that account. The kids show up some, but getting the living crap beaten out of you by Kansas tends to demoralize casual fans. As to funding, there's plenty. I do not know where we stand from a school-to-school basis, but I imagine we are near the top. In terms of Program Recognition, middle of the pack. We have never shown consistency. Ever. It is mystifying.

All the Programs put an emphasis on winning. Guys don't play sports because they enjoy losing. I remember the Women's Coach a long time ago, telling me that he had played College ball with the old Utah Jazz point guard (name escapes me) and that "he was the most competitive guy I have ever known. He'd slice your nuts off for a $1 bet." No, I do not believe that Dixon thinks it's O.K. to lose, but I am confused by the concept of "building" without consistency, and building success without winning. Nothing lasting was built on moral victories. At some point, you're gonna have to smack some heads...

I fully believe Dixon can do it. He has it in him. Hell, I was in the building when he hit The Shot!

I agree with everything you said. But... The Frogs are the new kids on the block in the B12. It hasn't even been 10 years. It's going to happen.

 

[Rose Bowl]

Sure Wex. The staff sees the program still in the 'building' stage. They are trying to build the program instead of just putting out 'teams' each year.

They think that is the only way to have sustained success over the long haul versus the more traditional basketball schools in the B12.

Do you have any idea how long they think the “building” will take? I understand that he inherited a big hole, so to speak, but the best way to lay the groundwork is to compete and recruit at a high level.

 

[Skip Jansen]

I'm sure y'all will call me a wuss and that I am just making excuses for the coaching staff.

There is nothing wrong with high expectations. As a matter of fact, all the top programs have them. BrewingFrog made a great comment about winning begets winning. That's 100% spot on and a sure fire sign that your program has arrived.

But, as I mentioned earlier, TCU is the new kid on the block in the best basketball league in the country.

KU isn't going anywhere. Neither is Baylor, Oklahoma, or any of the others. Everyone of them has a great coach, with good facilities, players in the NBA, etc. And... they expect to win as well.

I know patience isn't the strong suit of any fan base, but it's necessary. Jamie may or may not be the guy that puts the Frogs over the top. But, this staff is trying to build a foundation that teams in the future can live on.

 

[Horned Toad]

Pecking order? There are many ways to go with that. In terms of, as you noted above, fan support? Lousy. It breaks my heart to tune in and see the place pretty much empty. I have lamented this, and the Ticketholders have literally snarled back "We try to give the tickets away, but nobody wants them!" I live six hours away from Fort Worth. I can't be of much help on that account. The kids show up some, but getting the living crap beaten out of you by Kansas tends to demoralize casual fans. As to funding, there's plenty. I do not know where we stand from a school-to-school basis, but I imagine we are near the top. In terms of Program Recognition, middle of the pack. We have never shown consistency. Ever. It is mystifying.

All the Programs put an emphasis on winning. Guys don't play sports because they enjoy losing. I remember the Women's Coach a long time ago, telling me that he had played College ball with the old Utah Jazz point guard (name escapes me) and that "he was the most competitive guy I have ever known. He'd slice your nuts off for a $1 bet." No, I do not believe that Dixon thinks it's O.K. to lose, but I am confused by the concept of "building" without consistency, and building success without winning. Nothing lasting was built on moral victories. At some point, you're gonna have to smack some heads...

I fully believe Dixon can do it. He has it in him. Hell, I was in the building when he hit The Shot!

I was in the building too. I still have my ticket. First sport rush I ever had when he sank the shot. I’ll never forget that feeling. I think Skip knows what he’s talking about. There’s definite improvement happening with this young team. There’s also going to be growing pains just like we saw last night.

 

[Skip Jansen]

Do you have any idea how long they think the “building” will take? I understand that he inherited a big hole, so to speak, but the best way to lay the groundwork is to compete and recruit at a high level.

Rosie-

It just takes time. Kendrick's NBA success and Des drafted in the 1st Round are huge components to building the culture and brand.

The NIT Championship and NCAA Tournament appearance are other building blocks.

 

[Pharm Frog]

Just me but seems like a whole lot of emphasis being put on a blowout loss (uninspired for sure) when just a few days earlier there was glee and abundant joy and speakings of much improvement and even more upside potential. Laid an egg. Need to repaint the gosh awful floor.

 

[Skip Jansen]

Just me but seems like a whole lot of emphasis being put on a blowout loss (uninspired for sure) when just a few days earlier there was glee and abundant joy and speakings of much improvement and even more upside potential. Laid an egg. Need to repaint the gosh awful floor.

That was a pitiful effort last night. There are more than a few guys who need to check themselves. KU violated the Frogs. We're all going to hear the word "toughness" in the coming days.

 

[Rose Bowl]

Rosie-

It just takes time. Kendrick's NBA success and Des drafted in the 1st Round are huge components to building the culture and brand.

The NIT Championship and NCAA Tournament appearance are other building blocks.

Do you think Jamie is catching grief because of his early success? Is he recruiting at a level that is good enough to compete for championships or do we have to wait several more years before we can compete?

 

[CountryFrog]

Just me but seems like a whole lot of emphasis being put on a blowout loss (uninspired for sure) when just a few days earlier there was glee and abundant joy and speakings of much improvement and even more upside potential. Laid an egg. Need to repaint the gosh awful floor.

The truth is certainly somewhere in the middle I think. One big loss in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean a whole lot. They just need to rebound and put a solid performance together on Saturday.

I actually kind of like the floor but understand I may be in the minority on that.

 

[BrewingFrog]

I actually kind of like the floor but understand I may be in the minority on that.

O.K. SO, we've got Pumpkin pancakes, and now, the floor...

 

[Pharm Frog]

The truth is certainly somewhere in the middle I think. One big loss in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean a whole lot. They just need to rebound and put a solid performance together on Saturday.

I actually kind of like the floor but understand I may be in the minority on that.

Sorry to hear about your vision impairment. T&P

 

[CountryFrog]

Do you think Jamie is catching grief because of his early success? Is he recruiting at a level that is good enough to compete for championships or do we have to wait several more years before we can compete?

I think this is the sticking point for just about all of the different opinions - What exactly does "competing" mean? Competing for the conference title? Competing to finish in the top half? Making the tournament almost every year? Having a chance to make the tournament every year?

I actually think we've been competing fairly well within the conference. We've been in the tournament or right on the bubble for the most part each season. I think that's a huge step forward from where we were.

Is it enough at this point? When should we reasonably expect to take the next step? What is the ceiling for the program and how long until we reach that point? Those are hard questions to reach a consensus on. Fans typically just want more. Wherever you're at, you need more. I'm sure there are Kansas fans who aren't happy with Bill Self not getting more from their program recently.