• The KillerFrogs

Really OT: TCU Tuition

TCUMed

Full Member
I think it would be great for universities to be able to show how much an average graduate makes after graduation and maybe like 10 years down the road for various degrees. That way a student and their family could determine the best value each university is for their degree of interest. While I love TCU and could afford to send my kids there, I don't think I could justify sending them to TCU for 2-3x the cost of in-state school. My degree panned out pretty well, but I'm also convinced I could have gotten to where I am at a state school. If TCU had some info show my kids lifetime earnings would be x% higher than an in-state school then I would think the initial investment would be worth it for 30 years of increased earning potential.
 

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
I think it would be great for universities to be able to show how much an average graduate makes after graduation and maybe like 10 years down the road for various degrees. That way a student and their family could determine the best value each university is for their degree of interest. While I love TCU and could afford to send my kids there, I don't think I could justify sending them to TCU for 2-3x the cost of in-state school. My degree panned out pretty well, but I'm also convinced I could have gotten to where I am at a state school. If TCU had some info show my kids lifetime earnings would be x% higher than an in-state school then I would think the initial investment would be worth it for 30 years of increased earning potential.

$57,600 after 10 years according to this...

https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/texas/texas-christian-university/outcomes/
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
one small point about those studies is that i believe the subjects are in kinder and elementary school.

i don't think studying music in college is going to do squat in helping you with math for engineering majors

also believe there are studies that have proven manually writing out math problems reinforces the learning process, but good luck with that in today's world of distance learning on computers

One thing to keep in mind: If you do not have music majors in college, then there is no one to teach the elementary kids music to improve their math skills for future engineers....

This thread was about all majors that pay low and it include teachers as well.
 

Eight

Member
One thing to keep in mind: If you do not have music majors in college, then there is no one to teach the elementary kids music to improve their math skills for future engineers....

This thread was about all majors that pay low and it include teachers as well.

conservatories do a very good job of teaching musicians, singers, actors, artists, etc......
 

Eight

Member
and they cost about the same as TCU. So it is ok for them but not TCU?

there are also other means to learn such skills without the "formal process" and going through a conservatory or a 4-year school doesn't guarantee success or even entry into those worlds

that isn't the case with certain professions where the degree is required for consideration of entry
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
there are also other means to learn such skills without the "formal process" and going through a conservatory or a 4-year school doesn't guarantee success or even entry into those worlds

that isn't the case with certain professions where the degree is required for consideration of entry

True many musicians, artists and some designers do not need degrees, But going back to the earlier point that music helps learn science/math when taught in elementary - you need a degree to teach it. Thus you still are not looking at the overall picture and how all of this interacts, just one element of who gets a "worthwhile" paycheck is deserving of attending TCU.

Even MIT has a school of arts and humanities with a degree in music.
 

Eight

Member
True many musicians, artists and some designers do not need degrees, But going back to the earlier point that music helps learn science/math when taught in elementary - you need a degree to teach it. Thus you still are not looking at the overall picture and how all of this interacts, just one element of who gets a "worthwhile" paycheck is deserving of attending TCU.

Even MIT has a school of arts and humanities with a degree in music.

you need a degree to be employed by a public school in texas, but you don't need to have a degree to teach how to sing, play an instrument, act etc....
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
you need a degree to be employed by a public school in texas, but you don't need to have a degree to teach how to sing, play an instrument, act etc....

Go back and read post 94 and your post 99. It is about teaching music to elementary kids in public schools to help their skills with mental processing of numbers improve. So thank you for pointing out that you need a degree to do that in public schools in Texas. Never have been talking about an after school music or art class. Then that would go back to elitism of high income over low income, and why low income children should not be allowed the same advantage.
 

Eight

Member
Go back and read post 94 and your post 99. It is about teaching music to elementary kids in public schools to help their skills with mental processing of numbers improve. So thank you for pointing out that you need a degree to do that in public schools in Texas. Never have been talking about an after school music or art class. Then that would go back to elitism of high income over low income, and why low income children should not be allowed the same advantage.

you are missing the point, how does having a degree ensure you are good at teaching music, art, singing, acting etc.....
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
you are missing the point, how does having a degree ensure you are good at teaching music, art, singing, acting etc.....
I'm not missing the point. When did the discussion ever become about whether having a degree makes you a good teacher? It doesn't guarantee it, but a degree is still required to teach in schools at all levels.

This is about schools offering degrees, not about whether the degree makes you a good teacher. Your changing the subject instead of offering a valid counter to my points.
 

ECoastFrog

Active Member
you are missing the point, how does having a degree ensure you are good at teaching music, art, singing, acting etc.....

Wow. Are you aware that TX has some of the VERY BEST music education, K-12, in all the US? This is largely due to UIL and its standards for performance. (We start them in grades K-6 so they are already fairly well-trained by grade 7, when UIL eligibility begins.)

Why does UIL sponsor music? I'd like to say it's because of some deep commitment to aesthetics, but that was not my experience as a former TX high school choir director. It's about football. Yes, football. Gotta have the marching band. But if kids get to play band instruments, why can't they have the option of singing or playing strings? Thus evolved the excellence of music ed in TX public schools.

When I was teaching, I could could still argue, 'But why does the band get that?" and it would usually work to get 'it' for the choir, as well. And of course, the competitiveness of UIL is not a singular motivation TX music educators... my colleagues were largely motivated by the aesthetic value for the kids.

Who trains those teachers? The vast majority had at least some training when they were K-12, and then they got a degree (or 2, or 3.) Were those degrees a guarantee of being a good teacher? Of course not. There are highly trained, but bad teachers in the world. But the degree is (and should be) required to teach K-12.
 

Eight

Member
I'm not missing the point. When did the discussion ever become about whether having a degree makes you a good teacher? It doesn't guarantee it, but a degree is still required to teach in schools at all levels.

This is about schools offering degrees, not about whether the degree makes you a good teacher. Your changing the subject instead of offering a valid counter to my points.

actually i thought the real issue is whether a student should be paying 200,000 for a 4-year degree to enter a career track with a limited earning celing
 

Eight

Member
Wow. Are you aware that TX has some of the VERY BEST music education, K-12, in all the US? This is largely due to UIL and its standards for performance. (We start them in grades K-6 so they are already fairly well-trained by grade 7, when UIL eligibility begins.)

Why does UIL sponsor music? I'd like to say it's because of some deep commitment to aesthetics, but that was not my experience as a former TX high school choir director. It's about football. Yes, football. Gotta have the marching band. But if kids get to play band instruments, why can't they have the option of singing or playing strings? Thus evolved the excellence of music ed in TX public schools.

When I was teaching, I could could still argue, 'But why does the band get that?" and it would usually work to get 'it' for the choir, as well. And of course, the competitiveness of UIL is not a singular motivation TX music educators... my colleagues were largely motivated by the aesthetic value for the kids.

Who trains those teachers? The vast majority had at least some training when they were K-12, and then they got a degree (or 2, or 3.) Were those degrees a guarantee of being a good teacher? Of course not. There are highly trained, but bad teachers in the world. But the degree is (and should be) required to teach K-12.

do you need a $200,000 degree to be an effective teacher?
 
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