• The KillerFrogs

Really OT: TCU Tuition

ticketfrog123

Active Member
Some of those programs give TCU international recognition, not to mention they bring in funding donations. When I was in school most of the art majors had a higher GPA in core classes than business or science majors. Not to mention, as ECoastFrog said, the impact on society without the cultural development.

I never encountered many arts majors that had a higher core GPA than major GPA except for literally 1 person. Don’t remember any of them outperforming business or science students save for the core arts classes like Rock to Bach or Theatre History, etc.

The people I’m referencing ended up as baristas so their GPAs might not have started with a 3.x
 
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Wexahu

Full Member
Does TCU become part of the elitist racist type culture or make strides to lead for a better balanced society...

Don't really get what you are saying here.

I'm not real big on "art" to be honest with you, never had even the slightest bit of interest in it. I guess I don't see the importance in it that you do. What does art have to do with racism?
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
Don't really get what you are saying here.

I'm not real big on "art" to be honest with you, never had even the slightest bit of interest in it. I guess I don't see the importance in it that you do. What does art have to do with racism?

Precisely nothing. Inarguably the two most significant contributors to “culture” in our society are the entertainment and sports industries and I don’t think that either suffer from a lack of minority representation.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
don't ask me because i am still trying to figure out how being a white male of european descent is bad, but the european model for climate change, health care, unemployment, college, and handling the covid is good
I'm still trying to work on that one too. My opinion has a taint to it at times in some of my class discussions.

I find the white european viewpoint does not always understand the minority standpoint. Which is widely accepted as racist. Yet no one mentions how the minorities do not understand the white european viewpoint to be able to cause compromise for real change. White europeans are not out to get minorities (well the vast majority), it is just a different viewpoint of managing life and values.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
I never encountered many arts majors that had a higher core GPA than major GPA except for literally 1 person. Don’t remember any of them outperforming business or science students save for the core arts classes like Rock to Bach or Theatre History, etc.

The people I’m referencing ended up as baristas so their GPAs might not have started with a 3.x

Different classes, different times. I upset a lot of my premed classmates when I simply took a 0 on my last physics exam because my class average was so high, and they were spending several late nights studying next door. They gave me dirty looks for a week (in fun of course).

edit: I knew more graphic design and photography majors than painting and sculpture.
 
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Endless Purple

Full Member
Don't really get what you are saying here.

I'm not real big on "art" to be honest with you, never had even the slightest bit of interest in it. I guess I don't see the importance in it that you do. What does art have to do with racism?

This gets into a long complex answer. For example, in history class, you may study the renaissance with Michelangelo. Much of history comes to us through the arts. More people know Michelangelo than the Medici family. Now take that we learn primarily about the history through art of the white european background. That can leave out many other cultures such as african americans because they do not relate the same and do not apply the same values because it was not their ancestors. Thus their education is not as good because of relevancy.

Next the values with arts goes more than just a pretty picture. Everything we see almost has some for of art and design relation. Macs became popular through the "cool" designs of their machines, not just the functionality from the engineers. interior design affects the mood of the buildings and homes we are in. Also STEM is starting to be recognized as STEAM because art classes teach better conceptual thought, how to develop more varied and abstract solutions, better communication skills, etc. All of these apply to science and technology development and problem solving skills. There are several studies on this, just very little on how to apply it.

To add some background. I am studying this as I am halfway through my Ph.D. The focus includes both minority issues in education and art education. Thus this thread hits a lot of the research I have been doing over the past almost two years.

Your responses mirror the vast majority of the population that do not understand the values of art simply because of lack of expose to the education behind it. This carries over to many arts as well, not just painting or drawing. Drawing was actually first brought in to the public schools as a way to improve economic output of the US.
 

tcudoc

Full Member
Art is really important...for memes to poop on.
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ECoastFrog

Active Member
This gets into a long complex answer. For example, in history class, you may study the renaissance with Michelangelo. Much of history comes to us through the arts. More people know Michelangelo than the Medici family. Now take that we learn primarily about the history through art of the white european background. That can leave out many other cultures such as african americans because they do not relate the same and do not apply the same values because it was not their ancestors. Thus their education is not as good because of relevancy.

Next the values with arts goes more than just a pretty picture. Everything we see almost has some for of art and design relation. Macs became popular through the "cool" designs of their machines, not just the functionality from the engineers. interior design affects the mood of the buildings and homes we are in. Also STEM is starting to be recognized as STEAM because art classes teach better conceptual thought, how to develop more varied and abstract solutions, better communication skills, etc. All of these apply to science and technology development and problem solving skills. There are several studies on this, just very little on how to apply it.

To add some background. I am studying this as I am halfway through my Ph.D. The focus includes both minority issues in education and art education. Thus this thread hits a lot of the research I have been doing over the past almost two years.

Your responses mirror the vast majority of the population that do not understand the values of art simply because of lack of expose to the education behind it. This carries over to many arts as well, not just painting or drawing. Drawing was actually first brought in to the public schools as a way to improve economic output of the US.


It has been proven that children who study music do better in math and reading, than those who don't study music. Moreover, musical organizations (and also sports) give kids a sense of belonging and community. This is really important in a child's development for a long list of reasons.

But back to racism and the arts.... If we lift up the histories of European origins while neglecting the histories of non-european origins, then we are implying that one history is important and meaningful, and the other is not. That is ultimately racist.

Your personal history influences many of the artistic expressions that are evocative for you. For example, if you're from TX, you might love country music- it really speaks to you. Then you move to NYC and good luck finding significant exposure to country music. The culture in NYC is different than Fort Worth, and that is clearly reflected in the local art. Does that make NYC better or worse than Fort Worth? All jokes aside, it does not.

But if we SAY that Fort Worth culture is better than NYC culture, and teach that as a fact in our schools and universities, then we denigrate NYC. And we miss the opportunity to learn from many NYC people who are often 1st generation immigrants from many different cultures. Passing judgement on them without knowing them or learning from them, is racist.

As Mark Twain wrote in The Innocents Abroad, "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts." What does travel do for us? It exposes us to other cultures, of which art is an important and prominent component.
 

steelfrog

Tier 1
Actually, Steel has nothing against the arts in education. As a sole goal it certainly is not practical. If someone's family is rich and a well-paying job is not important, then go for it.

One of Steel's own kinder wanted to pursue a degree in "coloring" as Steel thinks of it, and she did get that degree, but also got a degree in CS (which was part of the deal) and of course her well-paying job now is in CS.
 

Eight

Member
It has been proven that children who study music do better in math and reading, than those who don't study music. Moreover, musical organizations (and also sports) give kids a sense of belonging and community. This is really important in a child's development for a long list of reasons.

But back to racism and the arts.... If we lift up the histories of European origins while neglecting the histories of non-european origins, then we are implying that one history is important and meaningful, and the other is not. That is ultimately racist.

Your personal history influences many of the artistic expressions that are evocative for you. For example, if you're from TX, you might love country music- it really speaks to you. Then you move to NYC and good luck finding significant exposure to country music. The culture in NYC is different than Fort Worth, and that is clearly reflected in the local art. Does that make NYC better or worse than Fort Worth? All jokes aside, it does not.

But if we SAY that Fort Worth culture is better than NYC culture, and teach that as a fact in our schools and universities, then we denigrate NYC. And we miss the opportunity to learn from many NYC people who are often 1st generation immigrants from many different cultures. Passing judgement on them without knowing them or learning from them, is racist.

As Mark Twain wrote in The Innocents Abroad, "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts." What does travel do for us? It exposes us to other cultures, of which art is an important and prominent component.

one small point about those studies is that i believe the subjects are in kinder and elementary school.

i don't think studying music in college is going to do squat in helping you with math for engineering majors

also believe there are studies that have proven manually writing out math problems reinforces the learning process, but good luck with that in today's world of distance learning on computers
 

ECoastFrog

Active Member
one small point about those studies is that i believe the subjects are in kinder and elementary school.

i don't think studying music in college is going to do squat in helping you with math for engineering majors

also believe there are studies that have proven manually writing out math problems reinforces the learning process, but good luck with that in today's world of distance learning on computers

Correct. As I mentioned in the post, those studies were done on children. I just mentioned that as a random vote for music in the schools.
 
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