• The KillerFrogs

Should we keep Patterson???

Eight

Member
I think the points made are valid. This has been a year like no other so its hard to judge. What scares me about Meach/Cumbie is the play calling on the first two offensive series down at the goal line.....And who is 46 and why was he in there?

agreed and don't forget the shovel pass inside the latech 5 just before half

they can come up with this [ Finebaum ] but have yet to figure out how to run two of those backs in the same backfield with max?
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I think the points made are valid. This has been a year like no other so its hard to judge. What scares me about Meach/Cumbie is the play calling on the first two offensive series down at the goal line.....And who is 46 and why was he in there?

What scares me about them is they can’t figure out a way to get two RBs on the field at the same time, utilize a TE in the offense, or use the middle of the field. Among several other things.
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
Cumbie needs to go. As a QB Coach alone, he has underperformed. I believe Max's development has atrophied under Cumbie's tutelage, like seemingly all our other QBs. I have never seen a more unprepared group. This is, of course, simply my observation and my opinion based upon this observation. I look at other team's backup QBs coming off the bench and they don't look around panicked. Ours do. Why?

That's his job. He failed.

Unless he leaves on his own I think you're gonna be disappointed.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
Baylor won 2 games this year. We're gonna win 6-7 which is probably what most people honestly expected. I'm willing to ride this current staff into next year based on the 5-1 finish and the offense finding some identity. That being said we can't come out next year and stagnate/regress. Absolute minimum of acceptable wins for me in 2021 is 8 (and I won't be real excited about that).

Assuming you are counting SMU and Cal as wins and the assumed body bag game. So minimally acceptable would be 5-4 again in conference. This is exactly what I think the admin is okay with.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Unless he leaves on his own I think you're gonna be disappointed.
You are most likely correct.

One hopes that our kids get to do some Summer Camps with competent instruction, and learn some of the fundamentals of the position so that they are prepared.
 

Limey Frog

Full Member
With all due respect, I think you have unrealistic expectations. We HAVE competed for championships, winning the conference in 2014 (and getting screwed out of the playoff), and appearing in a conference championship game in 2017.

Other than OU and Baylor, no team can match that within the same time frame.

Baylor obviously had a very shady way of getting there, and has had two TERRIBLE seasons along the way. They're currently further from another run than we are.

We're simply not going to be OU, and we're not going to compete every year. Sure we've increased spending but that certainly isn't a panacea (ask the Horns).

Every team in the conference is trying to win championships. ISU has had a great year, but I highly doubt they'll compete at that level for a long time.

Going 5-4 in the Big 12 is pretty damn good, especially in a year when we had a lot to overcome with Max's health issues.

Putting together a run at the championship takes a lot, and it won't happen every year. I know some people think we can be Alabama or OU. Those people are fooling themselves. We've had better results than some pretty good schools in our conference (OSU, KSU, UT) and a reasonable hope is to have sustained success with occasional years when we put everything together and make a true run at a championship (conference, and more rarely national).
Expecting to match OU is a fool's errand.

a) competition against better and closer teams that I I know more fans of. A better TV revenue to keep the program going well. Competitive games.

b) My current expectations are to compete for a conference title (which goes with CFI invite) every 3-4 years with decent records in the years between. Football is entertainment for me, not validation of my way of life.

I do not expect TCU to be Ohio St or Alabama. TCU is not, and having those expectations just means you will be disappointed and should probably change fandom. The system does not allow for it and TCU alone cannot change that.

That said, I do not care about others rooting choices and expectations as long as they don't drag my entertainment with college football down in their zeal for perfection. It is why I generally did not use this board for many years.

I expect TCU to be consistently in the top four of the conference and to win it on average every five seasons or so. Based on recruiting rankings and various similar indices this isn't unrealistic. We aren't doing that. Anyone who thinks that's unrealistic is underselling TCU football; anyone who thinks we're fulfilling our maximum potential already is trying too hard to convince themselves.

Zero percent chance Gary cleans house. Literally ZERO. Very likely there are no changes unless someone leaves on their own.

I agree; he's going to change nothing. He never does. That's why it's time for him to retire. He has earned legend status for bringing TCU football back from the dead and into the promised land. Sadly he proved unable to also get TCU football over the hump from occasional relevance to perennially challenging for championships in a power conference. Anyone who thinks that pattern will miraculously change starting next year is fooling themselves.

You know what Einstein said about insanity...
 

SuperTFrog

Active Member
Did we join the Big XII to go 5-4, pooping away three winnable conference games because we rank 96th nationally in passing offense? I thought we joined the Big XII to compete for championships.

Gary makes excuses for himself every year after he pulls out a superficially respectable record with a decent November, but the truth is that we've been abysmal on offense for five of the past eight seasons, competent once, and good only during the two upperclass seasons of a QB too naturally talented for Cumbie/Meach to squander. Gary's primary loyalty is to his mediocre cronies, and his driving desire appears to be keeping them employed.

For the past five years we've been third after only OU and Texas in conference recruiting rankings. On paper our entire roster is the third most talented in the conference. The take-away from this season shouldn't be that we pulled it out, finished 6-4 (*hooray!!!*), "went to a bowl" (who cares?), and that "GP's still got it". The takeaway is that we're mediocre overall, abysmal on offense, poorly coached, and badly led by a CEO whose will to win no longer exceeds in strength his propensity toward cronyism (if it ever did).

If Gary doesn't clean house this off-season, then sign me up for the "Gary out" brigade. It pains me to say so; I still believe that he is the best head-coach for TCU and that he could win championships and be great for another 5-10 years yet. That's what I want. But how much evidence does he need that his old crew is walking proof of the Peter Principle? GP's good enough for the Big XII, but Anderson, Burns, Sharp, Cumbie, and Meach aren't. Sharp, Burns, and Anderson should have been fired in the second week of December 2013.

Gary's loyalty is, as we've long known, his tragic flaw; at this point it seems to be a fatal one. January 2021 is his last chance for me. If he doesn't enter spring ball with a new staff that suggests an ambitious desire for high-level success, then he should be put out to pasture.
You should root for Alabama or Ohio St. much better fit for your expectations.
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
I expect TCU to be consistently in the top four of the conference and to win it on average every five seasons or so. Based on recruiting rankings and various similar indices this isn't unrealistic. We aren't doing that. Anyone who thinks that's unrealistic is underselling TCU football; anyone who thinks we're fulfilling our maximum potential already is trying too hard to convince themselves.



I agree; he's going to change nothing. He never does. That's why it's time for him to retire. He has earned legend status for bringing TCU football back from the dead and into the promised land. Sadly he proved unable to also get TCU football over the hump from occasional relevance to perennially challenging for championships in a power conference. Anyone who thinks that pattern will miraculously change starting next year is fooling themselves.

You know what Einstein said about insanity...

We're a half game out of finishing 3rd this year. OK St/UT both have 5 wins like us but played one less conference game.
 

Salfrog

Tier 1
Cumbie needs to go. As a QB Coach alone, he has underperformed. I believe Max's development has atrophied under Cumbie's tutelage, like seemingly all our other QBs. I have never seen a more unprepared group. This is, of course, simply my observation and my opinion based upon this observation. I look at other team's backup QBs coming off the bench and they don't look around panicked. Ours do. Why?

That's his job. He failed.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Cumbie after the season since his contract is up. I have a bad feeling that he will be given a new 5 year contract and we will be stuck with him again.

You're correct that he doesn't deserve to come back because he hasn't developed any of the QB's that have been recruited since he has been here. The backups have been even worse. The QB's that have been recruited have been total bust. I give Justin Rogers a pass on the horrible leg injury his Senior year in high school.

Maybe we were spoiled under Winder & Fuente because they developed our QB's and had our backups ready to play when they were needed. It just doesn't make any sense how our QB's have been so bad or never develop since Cumbie has been here. Thought he was suppose to be some great developer of QB's? That, or our QB recruiting evaluations have been completely off which again falls on the staff.
 
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PO Frog

Active Member
This is such a screwed up season it is hard to evaluate anything. Without spring ball and fall camps there wasn't much time to implement changes. It is tough to evaluate coaches this one year. Now there are patterns and some of those are glaring. Kill is a great coach. People forget how much he did Northern Illinois and Minnesota. People called for him to be fired the moment his name was announced. There was even a website established for it almost immediately. He made the MN football program respectable again. With his time in the Big Ten and MAC I have feeling he will have some thoughts that can be implemented to create more of an offensive system.
Can you point to specifics in kill’s background that would lead you to believe he can create an offensive system? Such as specific seasons or teams of his that have had notable success from an offensive perspective.
 

froginmn

Full Member
I expect TCU to be consistently in the top four of the conference and to win it on average every five seasons or so.
Just FYI, OU has won the conference the last five years and thirteen of the last twenty. That leaves seven for the rest of the conference, and you expect us to win four of those.

Again, unrealistic IMO.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
I guess that includes me. See my post above and answer honestly, is what TCU football currently looks like:

a) what you wanted when we joined the Big XII in 2012?

b) what you genuinely believe our program's ceiling to be?

The "negative nancies" aren't the negative ones. We're the ones who believe TCU can and should do better. The ones telling themselves that it's all fine because we drubbed La Tech and KU, and are going to finish 7-4 after winning a .com bowl on Dec. 28th are the negative nancies. Apparently this is all cool with you? That sucks; we're becoming Baylor. I'm not cool with that.
While some of what you're saying is probably true, the idea that "we're becoming Baylor" almost immediately invalidates all of your opinions on the matter.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
I expect TCU to be consistently in the top four of the conference and to win it on average every five seasons or so. Based on recruiting rankings and various similar indices this isn't unrealistic. We aren't doing that. Anyone who thinks that's unrealistic is underselling TCU football; anyone who thinks we're fulfilling our maximum potential already is trying too hard to convince themselves.



I agree; he's going to change nothing. He never does. That's why it's time for him to retire. He has earned legend status for bringing TCU football back from the dead and into the promised land. Sadly he proved unable to also get TCU football over the hump from occasional relevance to perennially challenging for championships in a power conference. Anyone who thinks that pattern will miraculously change starting next year is fooling themselves.

You know what Einstein said about insanity...
Seriously man. Just try enjoying a victory for 24 scheissing hours before bitching and moaning about how you're not getting all the things you want. Even if every single thing you're saying is 100% correct we just won by 42 last night. Did you enjoy that at all? Or did you just immediately start bitching about the coaching staff as soon as the game was over?

Some of you must lead the most miserable scheissing lives.
 

bwnorx

Active Member
I feel like every year we have an excuse of being “young” or “injured”. It’s always chalked up to bad luck but at some point that’s on the coaches IMO.
 

samnegus

New Member
Seriously man. Just try enjoying a victory for 24 scheissing hours before bitching and moaning about how you're not getting all the things you want. Even if every single thing you're saying is 100% correct we just won by 42 last night. Did you enjoy that at all? Or did you just immediately start bitching about the coaching staff as soon as the game was over?

Some of you must lead the most miserable scheissing lives.

I would enjoy it if I weren't so sure that our head coach will use it as a pretext for justifying his not making necessary changes.

As for our being only .5 games out of third place, that entirely the point. On paper we seem close every year, but do we really feel that we are that close, or is our record every year something of a "back door cover" that recovers a vaneer of respectability for a squad that wasn't in reality close to being dangerously competitive. I think the latter, every year lately and I'm guessing next year too.
 
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