Should we keep Patterson???

[Prince of Purpoole]

Just to play devil's advocate... let's just assume that the slow start had maybe a little to do with Kill and Meach both being new, not having any spring ball, having a very weird summer, Max having heart surgery, Evans missing a month in COVID protocol, Storment missing time for the same.... and that the last three games are more indicative of what we will be moving forward. Wouldn't you agree that MAYBE Meach in particular deserves some credit???

I’m very close to endorsing this line of thought; maybe it’s just that my bias is to be optimistic in life but I think you are on to something

 

[Frognosticator]

I think instead we should get rid of some of the negative-Nancy fans we have on this board.

 

[Limey Frog]

Remember after we started 1-3 when so many people were calling for his head and saying he had lost his fire. Anyone care to jump on and eat crow? I’m pouring another bourbon to celebrate a great finish to the season and a coach that I hope stays for another 5+ years!

Did we join the Big XII to go 5-4, pooping away three winnable conference games because we rank 96th nationally in passing offense? I thought we joined the Big XII to compete for championships.

Gary makes excuses for himself every year after he pulls out a superficially respectable record with a decent November, but the truth is that we've been abysmal on offense for five of the past eight seasons, competent once, and good only during the two upperclass seasons of a QB too naturally talented for Cumbie/Meach to squander. Gary's primary loyalty is to his mediocre cronies, and his driving desire appears to be keeping them employed.

For the past five years we've been third after only OU and Texas in conference recruiting rankings. On paper our entire roster is the third most talented in the conference. The take-away from this season shouldn't be that we pulled it out, finished 6-4 (*hooray!!!*), "went to a bowl" (who cares?), and that "GP's still got it". The takeaway is that we're mediocre overall, abysmal on offense, poorly coached, and badly led by a CEO whose will to win no longer exceeds in strength his propensity toward cronyism (if it ever did).

If Gary doesn't clean house this off-season, then sign me up for the "Gary out" brigade. It pains me to say so; I still believe that he is the best head-coach for TCU and that he could win championships and be great for another 5-10 years yet. That's what I want. But how much evidence does he need that his old crew is walking proof of the Peter Principle? GP's good enough for the Big XII, but Anderson, Burns, Sharp, Cumbie, and Meach aren't. Sharp, Burns, and Anderson should have been fired in the second week of December 2013.

Gary's loyalty is, as we've long known, his tragic flaw; at this point it seems to be a fatal one. January 2021 is his last chance for me. If he doesn't enter spring ball with a new staff that suggests an ambitious desire for high-level success, then he should be put out to pasture.

 

[Limey Frog]

I think instead we should get rid of some of the negative-Nancy fans we have on this board.

I guess that includes me. See my post above and answer honestly, is what TCU football currently looks like:

a) what you wanted when we joined the Big XII in 2012?

b) what you genuinely believe our program's ceiling to be?

The "negative nancies" aren't the negative ones. We're the ones who believe TCU can and should do better. The ones telling themselves that it's all fine because we drubbed La Tech and KU, and are going to finish 7-4 after winning a .com bowl on Dec. 28th are the negative nancies. Apparently this is all cool with you? That sucks; we're becoming Baylor. I'm not cool with that.

 

[Limey Frog]

Just to play devil's advocate... let's just assume that the slow start had maybe a little to do with Kill and Meach both being new, not having any spring ball, having a very weird summer, Max having heart surgery, Evans missing a month in COVID protocol, Storment missing time for the same.... and that the last three games are more indicative of what we will be moving forward. Wouldn't you agree that MAYBE Meach in particular deserves some credit???

If this year was an isolated data set, this would make sense. But Covid, etc. notwithstanding, what we saw on the field was the same pattern we've seen for all but two of the past seven seasons. Evidence suggests that we're stuck firmly in a rut and that there is a lot of excuse-making going on. Keep making excuses and we'll stay in the rut.

I don't bet. If I did, I wouldn't bet against my own team. If I did, I'd bet you big that TCU will be just as mediocre next year if nothing changes. And the one after that. And so on...

 

[Froggy Style]

If Max would have played to whole TCU vs Iowa State game, we would have won. Gary did the right thing in not playing him in the first half and the first series of the second half considering he had a heart procedure 6 weeks earlier.

If our offensive line did not get Max hurt / murdered in the K-State game, then our backup quarterback promptly threw a pick 6, TCU would have won that game. We are on the cusp of 8-2, and that might have gotten us a New Year's 6 game this cycle. Game of inches. Leave Gary alone. Leave Meacham alone They both still have that winning juice. Dangerous Frog team returning looking to make a point in 2021.

if Gary hadn’t panic blitzed multiple times to allow easy TD bombs against Kstate, a team that otherwise would have never seen the end zone....

If Gary were a real head coach, perhaps he would have forced Meachum/Cumbie to run the ball, 2 1/2 years ago and stop running a FB/DE as our primary RB.

 

[Diehard]

Just to play devil's advocate... let's just assume that the slow start had maybe a little to do with Kill and Meach both being new, not having any spring ball, having a very weird summer, Max having heart surgery, Evans missing a month in COVID protocol, Storment missing time for the same.... and that the last three games are more indicative of what we will be moving forward. Wouldn't you agree that MAYBE Meach in particular deserves some credit???

I think the points made are valid. This has been a year like no other so its hard to judge. What scares me about Meach/Cumbie is the play calling on the first two offensive series down at the goal line.....And who is 46 and why was he in there?

 

[froginmn]

Did we join the Big XII to go 5-4, pooping away three winnable conference games because we rank 96th nationally in passing offense? I thought we joined the Big XII to compete for championships.

Gary makes excuses for himself every year after he pulls out a superficially respectable record with a decent November, but the truth is that we've been abysmal on offense for five of the past eight seasons, competent once, and good only during the two upperclass seasons of a QB too naturally talented for Cumbie/Meach to squander. Gary's primary loyalty is to his mediocre cronies, and his driving desire appears to be keeping them employed.

For the past five years we've been third after only OU and Texas in conference recruiting rankings. On paper our entire roster is the third most talented in the conference. The take-away from this season shouldn't be that we pulled it out, finished 6-4 (*hooray!!!*), "went to a bowl" (who cares?), and that "GP's still got it. The takeaway is that we're mediocre overall, abysmal on offense, poorly coached, and badly led by a CEO whose will to win no longer exceeds in strength his propensity toward cronyism (if it ever did).

If Gary doesn't clean house this off-season, then sign me up for the "Gary out" brigade. It pains me to say so; I still believe that he is the best head-coach for TCU and that he could win championships and be great for another 5-10 years yet. That's what I want. But how much evidence does he need that his old crew is walking proof of the Peter Principle? GP's good enough for the Big XII, but Anderson, Burns, Sharp, Cumbie, and Meach aren't. Sharp, Burns, and Anderson should have been fired in the second week of December 2013.

Gary's loyalty is, as we've long known, his tragic flaw; at this point it seems to be a fatal one. January 2021 is his last chance for me. If he doesn't enter spring ball with a new staff that suggests an ambitious desire for high-level success, then he should be put out to pasture.

With all due respect, I think you have unrealistic expectations. We HAVE competed for championships, winning the conference in 2014 (and getting screwed out of the playoff), and appearing in a conference championship game in 2017.

Other than OU and Baylor, no team can match that within the same time frame.

Baylor obviously had a very shady way of getting there, and has had two TERRIBLE seasons along the way. They're currently further from another run than we are.

We're simply not going to be OU, and we're not going to compete every year. Sure we've increased spending but that certainly isn't a panacea (ask the Horns).

Every team in the conference is trying to win championships. ISU has had a great year, but I highly doubt they'll compete at that level for a long time.

Going 5-4 in the Big 12 is pretty damn good, especially in a year when we had a lot to overcome with Max's health issues.

Putting together a run at the championship takes a lot, and it won't happen every year. I know some people think we can be Alabama or OU. Those people are fooling themselves. We've had better results than some pretty good schools in our conference (OSU, KSU, UT) and a reasonable hope is to have sustained success with occasional years when we put everything together and make a true run at a championship (conference, and more rarely national).
Expecting to match OU is a fool's errand.

 

[Moose Stuff]

Did we join the Big XII to go 5-4, pooping away three winnable conference games because we rank 96th nationally in passing offense? I thought we joined the Big XII to compete for championships.

Gary makes excuses for himself every year after he pulls out a superficially respectable record with a decent November, but the truth is that we've been abysmal on offense for five of the past eight seasons, competent once, and good only during the two upperclass seasons of a QB too naturally talented for Cumbie/Meach to squander. Gary's primary loyalty is to his mediocre cronies, and his driving desire appears to be keeping them employed.

For the past five years we've been third after only OU and Texas in conference recruiting rankings. On paper our entire roster is the third most talented in the conference. The take-away from this season shouldn't be that we pulled it out, finished 6-4 (*hooray!!!*), "went to a bowl" (who cares?), and that "GP's still got it. The takeaway is that we're mediocre overall, abysmal on offense, poorly coached, and badly led by a CEO whose will to win no longer exceeds in strength his propensity toward cronyism (if it ever did).

If Gary doesn't clean house this off-season, then sign me up for the "Gary out" brigade. It pains me to say so; I still believe that he is the best head-coach for TCU and that he could win championships and be great for another 5-10 years yet. That's what I want. But how much evidence does he need that his old crew is walking proof of the Peter Principle? GP's good enough for the Big XII, but Anderson, Burns, Sharp, Cumbie, and Meach aren't. Sharp, Burns, and Anderson should have been fired in the second week of December 2013.

Gary's loyalty is, as we've long known, his tragic flaw; at this point it seems to be a fatal one. January 2021 is his last chance for me. If he doesn't enter spring ball with a new staff that suggests an ambitious desire for high-level success, then he should be put out to pasture.

Zero percent chance Gary cleans house. Literally ZERO. Very likely there are no changes unless someone leaves on their own.

 

[netty2424]

If we avoid the slow start / gotta grow em up / not good until game 6 BS next year...I'll have hope for the future. If we come out and look like a team that's never played together AGAIN...

Also, Cumbie needs to go no matter what.

Agree with first paragraph. Hopefully they’ll have a 3 game non-con schedule next year.

Torn on Cumbie, not if he should go, but rather at what capacity is he willing to stay here. I think it’s safe to say, Cumbie is well liked and respected, and does a good job recruiting.

I have no idea what value he brings as a QB coach.

 

[Moose Stuff]

I guess that includes me. See my post above and answer honestly, is what TCU football currently looks like:

a) what you wanted when we joined the Big XII in 2012?

b) what you genuinely believe our program's ceiling to be?

The "negative nancies" aren't the negative ones. We're the ones who believe TCU can and should do better. The ones telling themselves that it's all fine because we drubbed La Tech and KU, and are going to finish 7-4 after winning a .com bowl on Dec. 28th are the negative nancies. Apparently this is all cool with you? That sucks; we're becoming Baylor. I'm not cool with that.

Baylor won 2 games this year. We're gonna win 6-7 which is probably what most people honestly expected. I'm willing to ride this current staff into next year based on the 5-1 finish and the offense finding some identity. That being said we can't come out next year and stagnate/regress. Absolute minimum of acceptable wins for me in 2021 is 8 (and I won't be real excited about that).

 

[Moose Stuff]

I think the points made are valid. This has been a year like no other so its hard to judge. What scares me about Meach/Cumbie is the play calling on the first two offensive series down at the goal line.....And who is 46 and why was he in there?

That play was as bizarre as it gets. The rest of the game beyond that was great. No idea how that play even happened.

 

[Moose Stuff]

if Gary hadn’t panic blitzed multiple times to allow easy TD bombs against Kstate, a team that otherwise would have never seen the end zone....

If Gary were a real head coach, perhaps he would have forced Meachum/Cumbie to run the ball, 2 1/2 years ago and stop running a FB/DE as our primary RB.

We did not watch the same KSU game. Their points in that game were FG, FG, 4 yard TD run with a 2 point conversion, and a pick 6.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Cumbie needs to go. As a QB Coach alone, he has underperformed. I believe Max's development has atrophied under Cumbie's tutelage, like seemingly all our other QBs. I have never seen a more unprepared group. This is, of course, simply my observation and my opinion based upon this observation. I look at other team's backup QBs coming off the bench and they don't look around panicked. Ours do. Why?

That's his job. He failed.

 

[Peacefrog]

That play was as bizarre as it gets. The rest of the game beyond that was great. No idea how that play even happened.

Of the 15 leading rushers in the Big 12, TCU has four of them, including Max at number 6. Taking all of those players off the field to have a TE/FB (whatever he is) run it on 4th down in the most predictable way makes zero sense. I hope it was just the staff trying something out and then crossing it off the list with permanent marker.

 

[Moose Stuff]

Of the 15 leading rushers in the Big 12, TCU has four of them, including Max at number 6. Taking all of those players off the field to have a TE/FB (whatever he is) run it on 4th down in the most predictable way makes zero sense. I hope it was just the staff trying something out and then crossing it off the list with permanent marker.

I remember way back in 1994 (at least I think it was 1994) when we had a walk on RB score a TD against UNC because Pat Sullivan said he had a dream the night before that the kid scored a TD. Maybe it was something like that.

 

[froginmn]

That play was as bizarre as it gets. The rest of the game beyond that was great. No idea how that play even happened.

I honestly assumed that the kid was the son of a big money donor or something.

 

[Endless Purple]

I guess that includes me. See my post above and answer honestly, is what TCU football currently looks like:

a) what you wanted when we joined the Big XII in 2012?

b) what you genuinely believe our program's ceiling to be?

The "negative nancies" aren't the negative ones. We're the ones who believe TCU can and should do better. The ones telling themselves that it's all fine because we drubbed La Tech and KU, and are going to finish 7-4 after winning a .com bowl on Dec. 28th are the negative nancies. Apparently this is all cool with you? That sucks; we're becoming Baylor. I'm not cool with that.

a) competition against better and closer teams that I I know more fans of. A better TV revenue to keep the program going well. Competitive games.

b) My current expectations are to compete for a conference title (which goes with CFI invite) every 3-4 years with decent records in the years between. Football is entertainment for me, not validation of my way of life.

I do not expect TCU to be Ohio St or Alabama. TCU is not, and having those expectations just means you will be disappointed and should probably change fandom. The system does not allow for it and TCU alone cannot change that.

That said, I do not care about others rooting choices and expectations as long as they don't drag my entertainment with college football down in their zeal for perfection. It is why I generally did not use this board for many years.

 

[4th. down]

Keep Gary. Tell Kill to tell those kids Cumbie and Meach not to do clown shid on offense. We’re pretty good if we can replace Wallow.

Wallow, we knew when he was recruited looking at his HS film, he was a hard hitting safety. GP knew, moved him to LB and the rest is Froglore history. What a leader and a great player he has been for us and to claim his place in our storied LB historical lineup.

 

[Frozen Frog]

This is such a screwed up season it is hard to evaluate anything. Without spring ball and fall camps there wasn't much time to implement changes. It is tough to evaluate coaches this one year. Now there are patterns and some of those are glaring. Kill is a great coach. People forget how much he did Northern Illinois and Minnesota. People called for him to be fired the moment his name was announced. There was even a website established for it almost immediately. He made the MN football program respectable again. With his time in the Big Ten and MAC I have feeling he will have some thoughts that can be implemented to create more of an offensive system.