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DMN: National reaction to TCU’s win over Kansas: Max Duggan’s stat line was the talk of the night

TopFrog

Lifelong Frog

DMN: National reaction to TCU’s win over Kansas: Max Duggan’s stat line was the talk of the night


By Katherine Griffith

TCU’s passing game has struggled the past few weeks and quarterback Max Duggan struggled to get the passing game going against the Jayhawks, as well. However, when he found a receiver he connected with them for a touchdown.

Duggan finished the night 3-11 for 96 passing yards and three touchdowns. He also ran the ball three times for 61 yards and one touchdown.

Here are some highlights from what people had to say about his stat line:

Read more at https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/t...-duggans-stat-line-was-the-talk-of-the-night/
 

Paint It Purple

Active Member
Regarding Max's throwing, I wonder if he's either (a) hurt, or (b) had his natural throwing talent coached out of him. He's got a cannon and last year would at times throw the ball too darn hard to be catchable. He's shown more touch this year, but doesn't know where it's going.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Regarding Max's throwing, I wonder if he's either (a) hurt, or (b) had his natural throwing talent coached out of him. He's got a cannon and last year would at times throw the ball too darn hard to be catchable. He's shown more touch this year, but doesn't know where it's going.

I think his main issue is he doesn't see things well and just can't find open guys or anticipate when they will be open, so the ball rarely comes out on time. There is a lot of hesitation and lack of confidence in what he's seeing, and then what looks like a rushed throw. At least that's what it looks like to me. Even on the TD catches, those balls should have been thrown MUCH earlier.

I think the accuracy issues stem from that more than anything.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
Who was the player (college or pro??) that they said, “He only catches touchdown passes.” Been a while and I’ve forgotten
 

Atomic Frawg

Full Member
Regarding Max's throwing, I wonder if he's either (a) hurt, or (b) had his natural throwing talent coached out of him. He's got a cannon and last year would at times throw the ball too darn hard to be catchable. He's shown more touch this year, but doesn't know where it's going.
I think his main issue is he doesn't see things well and just can't find open guys or anticipate when they will be open, so the ball rarely comes out on time. There is a lot of hesitation and lack of confidence in what he's seeing, and then what looks like a rushed throw. At least that's what it looks like to me. Even on the TD catches, those balls should have been thrown MUCH earlier.

I think the accuracy issues stem from that more than anything.
Max is in Max's head. He thinks way too much about throws instead of having the confidence to let it rip. So, @Wexahu is correct in that regard and it makes him hold the ball. He doesn't trust his arm and likely has heard the whispers (and sometimes shouts) of the press and fans since last season. He trusts his feet, and he is turning into Taysom Hill.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Max is in Max's head. He thinks way too much about throws instead of having the confidence to let it rip. So, @Wexahu is correct in that regard and it makes him hold the ball. He doesn't trust his arm and likely has heard the whispers (and sometimes shouts) of the press and fans since last season. He trusts his feet, and he is turning into Taysom Hill.
Gosh. If he only had a QB coach who could help him with these issues and guide him towards better utilization of his talents...
 

Limp Lizard

Full Member
Max was an excellent Freshman QB … for a few games. He threw a few balls too hard for a short pass the first game, but was still on target, on time and quickly saw everything and was extremely accurate. Some of those hard pass should have been caught, anyway. Now he is hesitant and inaccurate. Sorry, that is coaching. Meanwhile the whipping-boy Anderson has taken an all-new OL (having lost 3 to the NFL), with injuries/ilnesses throughout the season, but it has improved. Not so with QB. I saw a very different QB the first month and a half of 2019. And no it is not an injury. It is just more on the same from Cumbie. I don't know why he is still here, and if he stays, then we can give up on the program. Really a pity, too. Let an incompetent coach with apparently a mesmerizing patter charm the HC to disaster. Give me a hundred Andersons over on Cumbie!!!
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Max was an excellent Freshman QB … for a few games. He threw a few balls too hard for a short pass the first game, but was still on target, on time and quickly saw everything and was extremely accurate.

I don't think he's ever been "extremely accurate" on any sort of consistent basis. I thought he played well against Texas last year, can't remember everything from that game but I do remember some really nice throws and thinking he might kind of turn the corner after that one. Hasn't happened. Hasn't shown any consistency whatsoever, he'll throw a couple nice passes and then a bunch of head scratchers. And it seems to have gotten worse, right now our passing game is almost comical in it's ineffectiveness. 15 completed passes combined in 120 minutes of football against Tech and Kansas?

Some of it is coaching, yes, but a good QB can overcome some poor coaching with some good natural instincts and talent.
 

Eight

Member
Like the memory here.
But on that throw Andy had EIGHT in pass pocket protection.

Max is fortunate if he has 6 protecting him. He never has as much time as Andy had in the pocket.

What to do?

different mindset in the offensive schemes

the frogs in 2009 were going to make you stop the running game and then hit you with play action. took a quick look at the box score and tucker, turner, and wesley combined for 25 carries and ~100 yards so when andy faked to the back that stresses the safeties and linebackers and while not seeing the route the pump fake would indicate a double move

that play fit in a specific scheme that had been set up and attacked the defense

the frogs until last saturday ran anything similar
 

Eight

Member
I don't think he's ever been "extremely accurate" on any sort of consistent basis. I thought he played well against Texas last year, can't remember everything from that game but I do remember some really nice throws and thinking he might kind of turn the corner after that one. Hasn't happened. Hasn't shown any consistency whatsoever, he'll throw a couple nice passes and then a bunch of head scratchers. And it seems to have gotten worse, right now our passing game is almost comical in it's ineffectiveness. 15 completed passes combined in 120 minutes of football against Tech and Kansas?

Some of it is coaching, yes, but a good QB can overcome some poor coaching with some good natural instincts and talent.

max last year struggled and missed some wide open throws (please no one rush to defend him about receivers dropping balls or the line because just as those things happened he missed his share or wide open receivers deep), but he had shown progress in the first 3 1/2 games this year compared to last year

2019 181/ 339 for 53.4% completion rate, 2,077 yards, 6.1 ypa, 11.5 ypc, 15 tds/ 10 int

first 4 games of 2020 80 /115 for 69.6% completion rate, 902 yards, 7.8 ypa, 11.3 ypc 4 tds/ 1 int

wouldn't say max was a precise thrower in those first four games, but just under 70% is fairly accurate

last 4 is a different matter as he has had two games where he has completed less than 50% of his attempts as well as threw for less than 100 yards in both those games

last 4 games of 2020 44/ 86 for 51.1% completion rate, 468 yards, 5.4 yps, 10.6 ypc, 4 tds/ 2 int

is he reverting back to what is his norm? is he hurt? has he been impacted by the injuries and defections in the receiver group?

he did finish the year last year with 3 bad games out 4 against baylor, ou, and wvu when he compiled these numbers

36 of 89 for 40.1% completion rate, 349 yards, 3.9 ypa, 9.7 ypc, 1 td/ 6 int

problem is he sandwiched those three games around the tech game which was his best of the year
 
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CountryFrog

Active Member
max last year struggled and missed some wide open throws (please no one rush to defend him about receivers dropping balls or the line because just as those things happened he missed his share or wide open receivers deep), but he had shown progress in the first 3 1/2 games this year compared to last year

2019 181/ 339 for 53.4% completion rate, 2,077 yards, 6.1 ypa, 11.5 ypc, 15 tds/ 10 int

first 4 games of 2020 80 /115 for 69.6% completion rate, 902 yards, 7.8 ypa, 11.3 ypc 4 tds/ 1 int

wouldn't say max was a precise thrower in those first four games, but just under 70% is fairly accurate

last 4 is a different matter as he has had two games where he has completed less than 50% of his attempts as well as threw for less than 100 yards in both those games

last 4 games of 2020 44/ 86 for 51.1% completion rate, 468 yards, 5.4 yps, 10.6 ypc, 4 tds/ 2 int

is he reverting back to what is his norm? is he hurt? has he been impacted by the injuries and defections in the receiver group?

he did finish the year last year with 3 bad games out 4 against baylor, ou, and wvu when he compiled these numbers

36 of 89 for 40.1% completion rate, 349 yards, 3.9 ypa, 9.7 ypc, 1 td/ 6 int

problem is he sandwich those three games around the tech game which was his best of the year
Pretty good breakdown. The numbers have been so all over the place these 2 years that it's hard to draw any conclusions. And the all over the place numbers match what it looks like actually watching the games. He looked like he was on his way to an all-conference type of season in the first few games this year and since then has fallen off a cliff and looks like a totally different player.

There's only 3 real possibilities I think and you alluded to them. Either the first few games were an aberration and an inconsistent passer is simply what he is at this stage of his career; the surrounding cast (coaches and players) are so unreliable that it's stunting his development; or he actually does have some type of issue with his throwing shoulder.

There are probably only a handful of people on the planet who actually have an informed opinion on what's going on there and the rest of us are just speculating.

I will say that I personally think he's a better player this year than last when taking the entire season into account so I think you have to say there has been at least some progress from freshman to sophomore year and that gives hope for the future. Very soon the hope needs to turn into real production on the field though regardless of what the real issue(s) may be.
 

Eight

Member
Pretty good breakdown. The numbers have been so all over the place these 2 years that it's hard to draw any conclusions. And the all over the place numbers match what it looks like actually watching the games. He looked like he was on his way to an all-conference type of season in the first few games this year and since then has fallen off a cliff and looks like a totally different player.

There's only 3 real possibilities I think and you alluded to them. Either the first few games were an aberration and an inconsistent passer is simply what he is at this stage of his career; the surrounding cast (coaches and players) are so unreliable that it's stunting his development; or he actually does have some type of issue with his throwing shoulder.

There are probably only a handful of people on the planet who actually have an informed opinion on what's going on there and the rest of us are just speculating.

I will say that I personally think he's a better player this year than last when taking the entire season into account so I think you have to say there has been at least some progress from freshman to sophomore year and that gives hope for the future. Very soon the hope needs to turn into real production on the field though regardless of what the real issue(s) may be.

agree that he doesn't seem as harried during the games and as has been noted by many, he was effective in the passing game early in the year coupled with how well he has run the ball this year.

also agree that for the frogs to truly be competitive for the top tier of the conference among the things that has to happen they have to be able to throw the ball effectively. that solely doesn't depend upon max, but he also can't look like he has the last 4 games.

guess this is just another thing to be sorted out behind the purple curtain
 

FBallFan123

Active Member
Sophomore QB with a health scare over the summer of a pandemic season with an offense still looking for its identity.

I’m pretty willing to forgive his mistakes this season and expect improvement next season.

At the very least ... he’s a dynamic runner and I have considerable hope for the running game next season given his ability and how young the RB core and some OL is.
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
agree that he doesn't seem as harried during the games and as has been noted by many, he was effective in the passing game early in the year coupled with how well he has run the ball this year.

also agree that for the frogs to truly be competitive for the top tier of the conference among the things that has to happen they have to be able to throw the ball effectively. that solely doesn't depend upon max, but he also can't look like he has the last 4 games.

guess this is just another thing to be sorted out behind the purple curtain
Yes and I know that we all have the utmost confidence in absolutely everything that happens behind that purple curtain, particularly with the offense.
 
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