• The KillerFrogs

If you could choose a new offensive scheme...

vicarfrog

Active Member
What do I think should happen? Play out this year and unless things drastically improve, new OC and more or less let him hire his own staff. The thought of Meacham running this offense does nothing for me. In fact, it kind of scares me.

Could that even be more of the purpose of someone like Kill? He will assess who goes on the chopping block? The current narrative everyone speaks of tends to see Kill as being in Gary's pocket. I'm not so sure. I think he is there to do the painful things Gary doesn't want to do.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Could that even be more of the purpose of someone like Kill? He will assess who goes on the chopping block? The current narrative everyone speaks of tends to see Kill as being in Gary's pocket. I'm not so sure. I think he is there to do the painful things Gary doesn't want to do.

Then he needs to start doing some painful things. Like take eight's suggestion and every time they line up 5-wide go up to Meacham and Cumbie and give them a gigantic kick in the nuts.
 

fff91

Active Member
I thouhgt it was a little weird when we first went to the Air Raid. There is a book on how to stop it and you see it with Leach. There are several other versions of the spread that are more power oriented and play action oriented and RPO. Those would seem to fit GPs preference for the running game more than the Air Raid.

Even Holgerson modified his Air Raid to incorporate better running schemes.

Anyway, I was really surprised when we went back to Meacham. The offense does seem better this year but it just doesnt seem like the right fit for us.

Sigh, another wasted year struggling to get to 500. Most frustrating peice is we have ceded our slot in the conference to KSU and ISU, and it remains to be seen about Tech and WVU. Seem to be yet again a bottom half team.
 

researchfrog

Active Member
Something is missing. I know what you mean. Gary will always have my adoration and respect, but something in the air just feels missing beyond coaches and schemes...like an ambience or attitude. I felt like in the C-USA/MWC era we had this attitude of "We're going to make you wish you never scheduled us and even if we lose, you are going to be in so much pain tomorrow." I just feel like we don't have that anymore. I don't know, I don't want to get too "hocus pocus" weird. I'm absolutely amateur when it comes to the deeper parts of football. But hey, guess what, God only knows! Maybe we look back at the end of this season and say, "So glad we lost to K-State. That was our wake up call." But if things stay the way they are: we are destined to be 4-5 or 5-4 with a glorious trip to the "Cheez-It Bowl".

Switzer explained this phenomenon in Bootlegger's Boy. When Switzer was a young coach, he gave Royal [ Finebaum ] about hanging out with Willie Nelson. At age 59, Coach Royal seemed more interested in pickin' and grinnin'. When Switzer got to that age, he understood it. Coach P is that age.
 

Eight

Member
Again, I pick D.

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Eight

Member
Honest question here: How many of us were excited last winter/spring when we found out we had Kill, Meacham, Applewhite, & Anderson back at O-Line? How many of us were skeptical?

Personally, I was thrilled at that news. I'm not quite sure I'm in full fledge freak out mode yet, but no doubt, definitely disappointed. In the words of ol' Fauci "anecdotal evidence" here, but my gut says Gary's trying his absolute best to right the ship (doesn't mean he's making smart choices just that his heart is in the right place), and if he can't he will retire. I think things are going to get dark before we see sunshine again, but I don't think it will be the dark ages of my childhood in the 80's. There's just too many people invested in seeing this program succeed, and I am talking outside of Gary Patterson. Now that I see the product this year I see 2 potential records: 4-5 or 5-4. We either stay status quo, or improve ever so slightly. But no lightening in a bottle this year. We're going to lose to the Oklahomas, and squeeze out some wins or lose close ones with West Virginia, Texas Tech, Baylor, & Kansas.

Next question: How much does a successful offense have to do with scheme? Or is it more about discipline and an offense that just runs like a well coached machine? Or is it more of a both/and type of thing? I dunno...

didnt like it, said so, and i don't agree gary has done his BEST and when you say his heart is in the right place for whom?

he is paid quite handsomely by the university to run the football team and that should come before whether or not gary takes care of his friends or is loyal to his staff that is showing they are in over their heads

in regards to which is more important the scheme, the discipline, the execution etc... the ultimate goal is all of the above, but we are at a level of competition where we can not afford to be substandard in any of those and unfortunately we are a poorly coached, undisciplined offense that is running a scheme that doesn't fit its personnel
 

vicarfrog

Active Member
didnt like it, said so, and i don't agree gary has done his BEST and when you say his heart is in the right place for whom?

he is paid quite handsomely by the university to run the football team and that should come before whether or not gary takes care of his friends or is loyal to his staff that is showing they are in over their heads

in regards to which is more important the scheme, the discipline, the execution etc... the ultimate goal is all of the above, but we are at a level of competition where we can not afford to be substandard in any of those and unfortunately we are a poorly coached, undisciplined offense that is running a scheme that doesn't fit its personnel

I don't have any major disagreements with what you're saying. I'm just saying that I don't think he's laughing all the way to the bank. That's my gut, and of course I could be wrong. We can't see the heart. I don't think he likes losing and I think he wants to go out a winner. But for him, it appears that he values consistency and staff loyalty, and is not one to make drastic decisions. Now, those things can be debated as to their value, but they don't make him a bad person. That is what I mean when I say his heart is in the right place. I'm definitely concerned about the direction, and definitely agree that is something is not right.
 

Eight

Member
I don't have any major disagreements with what you're saying. I'm just saying that I don't think he's laughing all the way to the bank. That's my gut, and of course I could be wrong. We can't see the heart. I don't think he likes losing and I think he wants to go out a winner. But for him, it appears that he values consistency and staff loyalty, and is not one make drastic decisions. Now, those things can be debated as to their value, but they don't make him a bad person. That is what I mean when I say his heart is in the right place. I'm definitely concerned about the direction, and definitely agree that is something is not right.

i have seen multiple situations where a business owner wouldn't walk away from a business because they felt they had a responsibility to take care of their work force even if that was costing them money and threatening the future of the business

more than once i have seen a business owner sell a business or retire and turn it over to family not because they didn't enjoy what the business did, but they didn't enjoy the things required to run the business

this is where it seems to me from 10,000 feet outside the program. gary loves to compete, gary love to be around the kids, gary loves to develop young coaches, but is he willing to truly do the things needed to keep the program competitive?
 

vicarfrog

Active Member
i have seen multiple situations where a business owner wouldn't walk away from a business because they felt they had a responsibility to take care of their work force even if that was costing them money and threatening the future of the business

more than once i have seen a business owner sell a business or retire and turn it over to family not because they didn't enjoy what the business did, but they didn't enjoy the things required to run the business

this is where it seems to me from 10,000 feet outside the program. gary loves to compete, gary love to be around the kids, gary loves to develop young coaches, but is he willing to truly do the things needed to keep the program competitive?

Agreed! That's the million dollar question.
 

Pharm Frog

Full Member
i have seen multiple situations where a business owner wouldn't walk away from a business because they felt they had a responsibility to take care of their work force even if that was costing them money and threatening the future of the business

more than once i have seen a business owner sell a business or retire and turn it over to family not because they didn't enjoy what the business did, but they didn't enjoy the things required to run the business

this is where it seems to me from 10,000 feet outside the program. gary loves to compete, gary love to be around the kids, gary loves to develop young coaches, but is he willing to truly do the things needed to keep the program competitive?

What evidence exists to support the claim that GP loves to develop young coaches?
 

cheese83

Full Member
Personally I didn’t get the hype behind Kill. He’s an old coach who had a flash of minimal success at Minnesota. Could care less about his time before that. He was at VTech and they struggled too. Hope I’m wrong but hiring an old school coach in the twilight of his career doesn’t seem like something that will succeed. He’s basically just an analyst who is one of Gary’s best friends.
Meach had me a little excited they’d get back their success during the Boykin era but had a feeling it was probably destined for failure. Hope I’m wrong on both.
 

Eight

Member
What evidence exists to support the claim that GP loves to develop young coaches?

fitch, gonzales, and modkins and i think all have down a solid job though some will say he only wants those working for him on the defensive side of the ball that will do as he wishes

will they question him? most likely not, but no way of knowing and again i think we have seen the three do a solid job
 

cheese83

Full Member
fitch, gonzales, and modkins and i think all have down a solid job though some will say he only wants those working for him on the defensive side of the ball that will do as he wishes

will they question him? most likely not, but no way of knowing and again i think we have seen the three do a solid job
Glasgow was promising too. Fuente should also be included.
 

Chongo94

Active Member
Personally I didn’t get the hype behind Kill. He’s an old coach who had a flash of minimal success at Minnesota. Could care less about his time before that. He was at VTech and they struggled too. Hope I’m wrong but hiring an old school coach in the twilight of his career doesn’t seem like something that will succeed. He’s basically just an analyst who is one of Gary’s best friends.
Meach had me a little excited they’d get back their success during the Boykin era but had a feeling it was probably destined for failure. Hope I’m wrong on both.

I was somewhat hopeful because he had used tight ends so well at Minnesota. I was hoping he would somehow finally prod us into using them more. Sadly, that hasn’t really happened. I mean 5 receptions in 3 games really isn’t my idea of increased production. But maybe it should be, the last few years it would’ve been 2 receptions in 3 games, if that.

And I thought he also had some good running backs up in Minnesota that he used decently as well. Sadly, we still act like a fat kid in a candy store when it comes to our running back rotation. So infuriating. I was somewhat hopeful but apparently that hope was badly misplaced.
 
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Pharm Frog

Full Member
fitch, gonzales, and modkins and i think all have down a solid job though some will say he only wants those working for him on the defensive side of the ball that will do as he wishes

will they question him? most likely not, but no way of knowing and again i think we have seen the three do a solid job

Those three have been at TCU for 7-9 years each I think as positional coaches. I don’t think that qualifies as “development”. If they’d gone on to become defensive coordinators and head coaches somewhere and progressed in their careers I might agree but the limbs on GP’s coaching tree are very few. I think GP gives them a home but not sold that he loves to develop them in their careers. Just my perspective.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Those three have been at TCU for 7-9 years each I think as positional coaches. I don’t think that qualifies as “development”. If they’d gone on to become defensive coordinators and head coaches somewhere and progressed in their careers I might agree but the limbs on GP’s coaching tree are very few. I think GP gives them a home but not sold that he loves to develop them in their careers. Just my perspective.
I think there's one guy, Fuente, who has moved on and found some success. Otherwise, were sort of a monastery of oddities. St. 4-2-5
 

Eight

Member
Those three have been at TCU for 7-9 years each I think as positional coaches. I don’t think that qualifies as “development”. If they’d gone on to become defensive coordinators and head coaches somewhere and progressed in their careers I might agree but the limbs on GP’s coaching tree are very few. I think GP gives them a home but not sold that he loves to develop them in their careers. Just my perspective.

don't disagree that gary hasn't had many defensive assistants leave him for next step positions aside from glasgow

will say that fitch, modkins, and gonzales haven't been position coaches their entire time at tcu

fitch was first director of high school relations until 2016 when he was named a position coach

modkins was first a ga and then a defensive analyst for four years before being named as a position coach in 2018

gonzales was a ga for 3 years before being named as the cornerback coach which he oversaw for three years and then was switched to safeties in 2018

this is the first college coaching position for fitch and modkins and gonzales came to tcu from pacific
 
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