• The KillerFrogs

Utah threatening to join Big 12???

All well and good but tbh, the movers and shakers in this conference who are really going to influence what happens next, if anything happens next, are probably running through these same scenarios and saying "ditch TCU".
I don't agree with this at all. TCU is very sound financially and has very stable leadership both in the administration and at the board level. Our TV ratings have been more than adequate, too.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I don't agree with this at all. TCU is very sound financially and has very stable leadership both in the administration and at the board level. Our TV ratings have been more than adequate, too.

True, and maybe that is a big factor in the attractiveness of a school to a conference. I'm just speaking in terms of things fans usually associate with teams you'd want in a conference. Size of school, history and tradition of athletics at the school, overall fan interest, attendance, etc. I would guess in terms of total butts actually sitting in seats at games, we rank dead last in the conference in attendance in both football and basketball, but maybe that isn't all that important overall.
 

CardFrog

Active Member
TCU will never lead with butts in seats as we don't manufacture nearly as many alumni as other schools. However, I do believe we provide solid competition for the most part and it HAS to play a factor. The worst thing you can bring is a team that perpetually gets blown out by everyone butts in seats or no seats. If it wasn't for Kansas basketball program they would be seen as worthless.
 

Big Frog II

Active Member
True, and maybe that is a big factor in the attractiveness of a school to a conference. I'm just speaking in terms of things fans usually associate with teams you'd want in a conference. Size of school, history and tradition of athletics at the school, overall fan interest, attendance, etc. I would guess in terms of total butts actually sitting in seats at games, we rank dead last in the conference in attendance in both football and basketball, but maybe that isn't all that important overall.
Do you actually ever do any research? Football, Kansas is at the bottom of attendance by a long shot. Since being in the Big 12 we have jockeyed back and forth with Baylor. I also imagine that if you deduct student tickets from some of the other schools, we surpass them as well in paid tickets. Lastly, with the number of suites and club seats we have, we most likely have revenue per season to put us at least in the middle of the pack of the Big 12. Basketball will never win attendance races due to the size of our arena. Finally, being in the DFW area does not hurt at all.
 

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
True, and maybe that is a big factor in the attractiveness of a school to a conference. I'm just speaking in terms of things fans usually associate with teams you'd want in a conference. Size of school, history and tradition of athletics at the school, overall fan interest, attendance, etc. I would guess in terms of total butts actually sitting in seats at games, we rank dead last in the conference in attendance in both football and basketball, but maybe that isn't all that important overall.

Not everyone can be the only game in town (or state) like An Ohio State University...
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Do you actually ever do any research? Football, Kansas is at the bottom of attendance by a long shot. Since being in the Big 12 we have jockeyed back and forth with Baylor. I also imagine that if you deduct student tickets from some of the other schools, we surpass them as well in paid tickets. Lastly, with the number of suites and club seats we have, we most likely have revenue per season to put us at least in the middle of the pack of the Big 12. Basketball will never win attendance races due to the size of our arena. Finally, being in the DFW area does not hurt at all.

Ugh, forgot about Kansas football. In my defense, that's easy to do.

As for the rest of your comments regarding attendance, I disagree. I've been to basically every home game in the past decade, have sat in seats all over the stadium from time to time. I'm shocked at how many empty seats are around me, even for games that are supposedly well attended. Most games, and I'm not exaggerating at all, ACTUAL capacity is less than 60%, I'd bet about anything on it based on what I see around me at games. It's like that to a degree everywhere all over the country except for a handful of schools, but I think it's worse at TCU.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying we aren't at all an attractive school to a conference. I'm just saying how we perceive ourselves might be a little jaded relative to how others schools are perceived.
 

lowfrog

Active Member
Utah's threat is an empty threat. A school has to be invited by that conference to join the conference. An invite doesn't happen unless all the presidents of a conference's current schools vote unanimously to invite that school into the conference. Then the conference commissioner makes a phone call to the chancellor, president, or CEO leader of the school with the invite. This process is what happened to TCU and West Virginia. After Del Conte went to make TCU's case for being a member school of the the Big 12, the matter of adding TCU and WV to the Big 12 was put before a meeting of the Big 12 presidents. After review and discussion, a motion to call a vote was put forward and seconded. The Big 12 presidents held the vote and it was unanimous to invite TCU and WV to join the Big 12. BTW, when a conference is considering adding one or more schools, they don't just look at one or two sports. They look at the entire school as a package -- all of academics, all of athletics, everything.
 

Endless Purple

Full Member
True, and maybe that is a big factor in the attractiveness of a school to a conference. I'm just speaking in terms of things fans usually associate with teams you'd want in a conference. Size of school, history and tradition of athletics at the school, overall fan interest, attendance, etc. I would guess in terms of total butts actually sitting in seats at games, we rank dead last in the conference in attendance in both football and basketball, but maybe that isn't all that important overall.

It is a good thing general fans do not make business decisions for conferences. Most do not know the facts behind what happens or the monetary aspects of all dealings.

TCU does well in TV ratings which ties to conference revenue. TCU also ranks fairly well in terms of revenue in the conference, as previously mentioned. Most general fans have not changed their perception from the TCU of 70s and 80s because that is what they learned and didn't change perspective, or were taught by those from that time period of who to root for. Fans are mostly clueless to truth and only know perception, hence why TCU gets a better perception outside of Texas than in state. Outside knowledge is mostly from the last 20 years.
 
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Endless Purple

Full Member
I would not mind Utah as I enjoyed the building rivalry. They would be better if they came with the Arizona schools, then pick up 1 to the east for WVU.

14 teams (conference owns Big 14 rights) with mostly east/west divisions. Gives 6 divisional games, 1 permanent crossover and the other 2 games rotate among the last 6 teams.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I would not mind Utah as I enjoyed the building rivalry. They would be better if they came with the Arizona schools, then pick up 1 to the east for WVU.

14 teams (conference owns Big 14 rights) with mostly east/west divisions. Gives 6 divisional games, 1 permanent crossover and the other 2 games rotate among the last 6 teams.

I much prefer 12 to 14. 14 is basically two separate conferences, when it can be 5-6 years before teams play each other in football, that's not really a conference.

I prefer 10 over 12 though. Round robin scheduling is great. I just wish we could trade WVU for someone, nothing against WVU but they don't belong in the Big 12.
 

Mean Purple

Active Member
I much prefer 12 to 14. 14 is basically two separate conferences, when it can be 5-6 years before teams play each other in football, that's not really a conference.

I prefer 10 over 12 though. Round robin scheduling is great. I just wish we could trade WVU for someone, nothing against WVU but they don't belong in the Big 12.
Whatever the number is, just have to keep rival games in line. SEC has done that well with crossover games.
 

Mean Purple

Active Member
Interesting report on the Bruins 24/7 site about a contentious vote in the Pac-12 CEO Meetings

"Among the disparate opinions were Utah apparently threatening to leave the conference for the Big 12 and USC threatening to go independent for the season."


USC could actually pull off the indy bit like Notre Dame does. until, well, a pandemic hits.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Whatever the number is, just have to keep rival games in line. SEC has done that well with crossover games.

Yeah, but it creates huge scheduling imbalances. Teams like LSU having to play Florida and Auburn having to play Georgia every year while Missouri plays Arkansas and Ole Miss gets Vandy kinda stinks. Imagine being Auburn and having to play the SEC West + Georgia every year. I know things go in cycles and teams aren't always as good as they are now, but still, the odds of Georgia being a far better team than Kentucky or Vandy are very high.
 
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