• The KillerFrogs

SB Nation: Can TCU lead the Big 12 in defense for fourth straight season?

TopFrog

Lifelong Frog
Can TCU lead the Big 12 in defense for fourth straight season?

Jamie Plunkett

Despite losing Jeff Gladney, TCU’s secondary is expected to be a force in 2020.

“Noah and Tre Tomlinson are probably our starters. We’re finding backups between Kee’yon Stewart, Tony Wallace and (C.J.) Ceasar,” Patterson said. “Ceasar has still been doing some good things. But when you get into the season you better have five or six guys that can go. We’ve really pushed all of those guys. In the SMU game they have a high level receiver corps and we’ve got to make sure we’re as ready to go as possible because they can play.”

Read more at https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nc...efense-for-fourth-straight-season/ar-BB18FZhk
 

Limp Lizard

Full Member
Amazing they played such good defense with the horrible help they had from the offense. The problem was not TOP (the Frogs finished 15th in the nation), but scoring (#55). That is a lot of pressure on the D. They had to hold the opposing, B12 offense to a low score to win.

Be interesting to see how the relationship with Kill works out. Don't know of another case where the coordinator is not the one in charge of the offense/defense, unless that person is the head coach: like we have on defense and like a few college teams are on offense. On paper it looks good. We will see.
 

Froggish

Active Member
Leading the B12 in defense is sort of misleading as we were 2nd or 3rd in many critical categories. However it’s irrelevant as played more than good enough defensively to have made a bowl and contended for a B12 title. We know where our problems lay. There are 41 bowl games so 82 out of 128 FBS teams made a bowl game last year. When you look at it from that perspective, our play over the last two seasons is not only embarrassing but seems to point to a bigger issue with the program.
 

JugbandFrog

Full Member
Leading the B12 in defense is sort of misleading as we were 2nd or 3rd in many critical categories. However it’s irrelevant as played more than good enough defensively to have made a bowl and contended for a B12 title. We know where our problems lay. There are 41 bowl games so 82 out of 128 FBS teams made a bowl game last year. When you look at it from that perspective, our play over the last two seasons is not only embarrassing but seems to point to a bigger issue with the program.
The problem with the program begins and ends with the QB position. Football is all about the QB. When we had Boykin, Cumbie looked like a genius, but without his scrambling ability, and improvisation, well, he hasn’t looked so good.

We have had terrible luck with QB, and our OC hasn’t helped.
 

Froggish

Active Member
The problem with the program begins and ends with the QB position. Football is all about the QB. When we had Boykin, Cumbie looked like a genius, but without his scrambling ability, and improvisation, well, he hasn’t looked so good.

We have had terrible luck with QB, and our OC hasn’t helped.

No argument here. Everything begins and ends with the QB position but I forever maintain that while swings are part of the game, these last two season have seen unacceptable floors. Boykin was a generational talent as a CFB QB. If you have to find a guy like that to be respectable than there’s a problem.
 

Eight

Member
The problem with the program begins and ends with the QB position. Football is all about the QB. When we had Boykin, Cumbie looked like a genius, but without his scrambling ability, and improvisation, well, he hasn’t looked so good.

We have had terrible luck with QB, and our OC hasn’t helped.

maybe, but a better pass rush at the end of few games would have been nice last year as the frogs on more than one occasion were ahead in the 4th quarter and could not get the opposing offense off the field
 

FrogAbroad

Full Member
maybe, but a better pass rush at the end of few games would have been nice last year as the frogs on more than one occasion were ahead in the 4th quarter and could not get the opposing offense off the field
A stronger pass rush at the end of the game is a function of several variables, one of which (and an important one) is how much time the D has to stay on the field. More time on offense helps defense.
 

PO Frog

Active Member
A stronger pass rush at the end of the game is a function of several variables, one of which (and an important one) is how much time the D has to stay on the field. More time on offense helps defense.
We were top 15 in time of possession last year and top 5 for much of the season. We still sucked, so I’m not sure your point is all that valid.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Boykin was blessed with the ability to make lemonade out of lemons on a lot of occasions. He also had the ability to shake off the last play and make the next one work. It seemed to me that he was a taskmaster on the field and commanded the best out of his blockers and receivers (who bailed him out of a lot of lousy throws).

Since that time, we haven't really had that kind of on-field leadership. Max has shown some of that, but he's more of a "Follow me!" kind of leader, and is himself learning that he can't just put the team on his shoulders and carry them. They have to do their jobs, too.

Which brings up to coaching. For the last two years, our offense has looked like a recently kicked anthill: Guys running every whichway with no real seeming purpose. No way to find what works and no way to stick with it. Aimless and lost. And those are the kinder things one could say. I can take the telephone pole and smack Sonny about the head again (deservedly so), but that is pointless. We're stuck with him. What is encouraging is somebody that stresses Doing Your Job and Continuity is now present on the Offensive staff, and apparently holding the button that controls Sonny's shock collar (May it be full of fresh batteries...). That only means good things. I am indeed hopeful about the offense, though admittedly there was nowhere to go but up.

Defense will be the TCU Defense once again. So there.
 

Eight

Member
A stronger pass rush at the end of the game is a function of several variables, one of which (and an important one) is how much time the D has to stay on the field. More time on offense helps defense.

true, but that wasn't the case in the kstate, baylor, and wvu games

in all three as po frog pointed out, the frogs led in time of possession and ran more plays

against wvu they had the ball 6 times for a total of 27 offensive plays in the second half before they "put" together the final drive they featured a pi on gladney and roughing call on blacklock

against baylor the bears had the ball 5 times for a total of 28 playsin the second half before their tying drive that again featured a pi on gladney and a 3rd and 7 conversion

kstate was the worst off all because the 11 play drive for 95 yards was almost 20% of their total plays and one 1/3 their total yards with most of the damage coming on a long run and two pass completions on third and long

the offense barely did anything in any of those games, but in two the frogs had the lead in the 4th and were tied in the third, the defense had not been on the field all day, and they couldn't get the play when needed

stats and all are nice, but in the end plays when it costs is really what matters and just like the frogs couldn't make the plays when they needed on offense they had the same problem at times last year in the pass rush as it was the weakest in gary's time in fort worth
 

FrogCop19

Active Member
The problem with the program begins and ends with the QB position. Football is all about the QB. When we had Boykin, Cumbie looked like a genius, but without his scrambling ability, and improvisation, well, he hasn’t looked so good.

We have had terrible luck with QB, and our OC hasn’t helped.

I will semi-agree with you here. Max missed a lot of throws last year, but much of the time it was because he was running for his life. The QB problems were symptoms of another issue on our team, which was the O-Line. How many times did we see a guard needlessly move over to help out on a double team or even literally matador-style a defender flying through the line. Thank God Max has the wheels he does, or they would have planted him in the ground dozens of times more than they did. Remember, he very nearly set a NCAA freshman record with the number of passes he threw before he had his first interception. After that, it was an avalanche because he was constantly scrambling to avoid a dirt nap.

Also, as good as Boykin was, he also had a generational talent in terms of Doctson, one of the best high-pointing WR I've ever seen in CFB. All he had to do was throw it within five yards of Josh and it was damn-near guaranteed.
 

4 Oaks Frog

Active Member
The problem with the program begins and ends with the QB position. Football is all about the QB. When we had Boykin, Cumbie looked like a genius, but without his scrambling ability, and improvisation, well, he hasn’t looked so good.

We have had terrible luck with QB, and our OC hasn’t helped.
“High tide lifts all boats.”
GO FROGS!
BEAT smooo!
Spit Blood~~<~<and fok baylor!!
 

Limp Lizard

Full Member
I have said before that the problems last year looked like more that just x's and o's. Something was wrong. Sure felt to me like some personalities got in the way of play on the field. Hopefully those problems (players and/or coaches) are gone now.

I don't buy Boykin being that good. If so he would have earned a starting job by now. OSU, Texas Tech, etc.replace QBs year after year without looking for a "once in a generation" QB.
 

Eight

Member
I have said before that the problems last year looked like more that just x's and o's. Something was wrong. Sure felt to me like some personalities got in the way of play on the field. Hopefully those problems (players and/or coaches) are gone now.

I don't buy Boykin being that good. If so he would have earned a starting job by now. OSU, Texas Tech, etc.replace QBs year after year without looking for a "once in a generation" QB.

agree that we didn't see to help our offensive players out at times in the scheme and play calling

iowa state game to me was the pinnacle of failures all the way around.

starts with a bad match-up inside with the frogs interior offensive line against lima (something we saw again when they faced baylor and roy inside), play calling seemed random as the frogs started all on the ground, then switched to all through the air, and who can forget the drive before half with delton

finally, you had just poor execution on the offensive side and it looked like parts of the defensive line just went through the motions in the second half. no surprise that was the frogs worst beating of the year
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
I have said before that the problems last year looked like more that just x's and o's. Something was wrong. Sure felt to me like some personalities got in the way of play on the field. Hopefully those problems (players and/or coaches) are gone now.

I don't buy Boykin being that good. If so he would have earned a starting job by now. OSU, Texas Tech, etc.replace QBs year after year without looking for a "once in a generation" QB.
To be fair, there were some off-field issues that contributed mightily to the demise of his career...
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
No argument here. Everything begins and ends with the QB position but I forever maintain that while swings are part of the game, these last two season have seen unacceptable floors. Boykin was a generational talent as a CFB QB. If you have to find a guy like that to be respectable than there’s a problem.

The guy that came after him was not Boykin and we were quite respectable with him. We were gonna be very respectable with Max this year too (and we may well still be without him).
 

Froggish

Active Member
We are all dancing around the fact that GP didn’t do his best HC job last year. Whether it was getting his defense to step up in critical moments, not finding leadership in the locker room, or continually running with a terrible offensive staff, he contributed to problems last year. Over the years I have seen countless times GP’s genius and work ethic elevate the performance of players and coaching staff he’s assembled. For whatever reason that isn’t happening anymore. His genius is no longer boot strapping the incompetence around him.
 

Eight

Member
We are all dancing around the fact that GP didn’t do his best HC job last year. Whether it was getting his defense to step up in critical moments, not finding leadership in the locker room, or continually running with a terrible offensive staff, he contributed to problems last year. Over the years I have seen countless times GP’s genius and work ethic elevate the performance of players and coaching staff he’s assembled. For whatever reason that isn’t happening anymore. His genius is no longer boot strapping the incompetence around him.

you can only cover up personnel issues for so long and among the problems the frogs had last year was they were just overmatched at some key positions.

quarterback is the one everyone focuses on but as has been mentioned in this thread the frogs interior line struggled not only in pass pro, but physically got overpowered in some games

tough to start anything offensive when you struggle to hold ground inside. mix in the issues in offensive execution and play calling and we got what we got

defensively the frogs were overmatched at defensive end and the one linebacker position in a couple of games and it showed big time in the run game and pass rush

the linebacker situation evened out a bit and defensive end play against the run got better, but the pass rush just wasn't there all year from the ends and this was with ross drawing a double inside

this is the wrong conference to try to contain an opposing offense if you can't pressure the quarterback and the deep throw is a weakness in this defense as we have seen for years.
 
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