• The KillerFrogs

PAC-12 may have more problems than COVID

JugbandFrog

Full Member
You are missing the point.

You want to opt out of the season for "health concerns" due to COVID? Fine. Do that, but just realize, if you are truly that worried about your safety, you don't get to use the facilities, locker room, weight room, or get to work out with the team.

That's what Washington State is doing. They aren't punishing these players for speaking out. They are saying, if you are not going to participate in this season, we are not going to waste our time and resources on you and let you participate in team activities. That is what is happening here
Looks like Leach got out at the right time.
 

LVH

Active Member
The situation at Washington State boils down to this:

Players who’ve requested to opt out of the season can’t take part in any team activities. You can’t choose to opt out for health and safety reasons and still lift, practice and be in locker room/weight room.
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
The situation at Washington State boils down to this:

Players who’ve requested to opt out of the season can’t take part in any team activities. You can’t choose to opt out for health and safety reasons and still lift, practice and be in locker room/weight room.

I have no idea if that's actually the situation, but I agree with it if it is.
 

Eight

Member
That’s a great policy if you wanna attract top recruits. No matter how much you guys hate it, most of the demands are totally reasonable and will likely be adopted by major schools. The revenue sharing stuff isn’t gonna happen but everything else seems doable and logical. The times they are a changing.

its wazzu, they aren't exactly a hot spot for recruits, and didn't we hear how ok state was going to have trouble landing black players after gundy and the tshirt.

the guarantee of not dropping other sports is ridiculous. as i mentioned before, wazzu is running at a significant deficit in their athletic department and the money has to come from somewhere and it won't be the state of washington.

as far as long term health insurance there are a few issus.

consider the cases of shawn robinson, matthew baldwin, and justin rogers. all three arrived on their respective college campuses with injuries sustained in high school. injuries that were significant enough in college that they have either ended or impacted the career of each.

additionally, all three have transferred schools during their college careers. who should pay for the health insurance policy? the original college? the last college? what about the high school program and in the case of robinson which high school program?
 

Moose Stuff

Active Member
The conversation leaked between Rolovich and a player seems to confirm this

My point more specifically is that there seems to be more to the situation than JUST that. The "can't participate in team activities if you opt out for COVID reasons" part I'm fully on board with. The part where Rolovich seems to suggest there will be action taken against kids joining the other player movement gets a little dicey.
 
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SuperBarrFrog

Active Member
My point more specifically is that there seems to be more to the situation than JUST that. The "can't participate in team activities if you opt out for COVID reasons" part I'm fully on board with. The part where Rolovich seems to suggest there will he action taken against kids joining the other player movement gets a little dicey.

Exactly. Waiting for more info to come out on this.
 

notyalc

Active Member
My point more specifically is that there seems to be more to the situation than JUST that. The "can't participate in team activities if you opt out for COVID reasons" part I'm fully on board with. The part where Rolovich seems to suggest there will he action taken against kids joining the other player movement gets a little dicey.

I'm fully onboard if students feel they can't participate because of Covid and need to sit the season but thats a year of eligibility down the tubes. The list of the demands crap just paints them as an ungrateful bunch of babies. Where is the CANCEL culture when you need it!
 

SuperBarrFrog

Active Member
its wazzu, they aren't exactly a hot spot for recruits, and didn't we hear how ok state was going to have trouble landing black players after gundy and the tshirt.

the guarantee of not dropping other sports is ridiculous. as i mentioned before, wazzu is running at a significant deficit in their athletic department and the money has to come from somewhere and it won't be the state of washington.

as far as long term health insurance there are a few issus.

consider the cases of shawn robinson, matthew baldwin, and justin rogers. all three arrived on their respective college campuses with injuries sustained in high school. injuries that were significant enough in college that they have either ended or impacted the career of each.

additionally, all three have transferred schools during their college careers. who should pay for the health insurance policy? the original college? the last college? what about the high school program and in the case of robinson which high school program?

I agree, dropping other sports should be a separate deal and the players should focus just on football as that’s he revenue generator. However, sometimes to get the important things you have to also ask for way more than you plan to get in order to have something to negotiate. Most the things they’ve asked for are pretty reasonable and will likely be agreed to in some form eventually.

As far as the insurance, I would think the current team putting you on scholarship would be the team responsible. Eventually, I’m sure they would negotiate some sort of preexisting conditions clause. Also, this is the most important of all their demands. Having insurance covering you for 6 years after college for the injuries you take on while playing for the team is a great thing to go after, especially when you consider the number of jobs after graduation that don’t provide any health insurance. Gonna be really interesting to see how this all gets worked out.
 

Eight

Member
I agree, dropping other sports should be a separate deal and the players should focus just on football as that’s he revenue generator. However, sometimes to get the important things you have to also ask for way more than you plan to get in order to have something to negotiate. Most the things they’ve asked for are pretty reasonable and will likely be agreed to in some form eventually.

As far as the insurance, I would think the current team putting you on scholarship would be the team responsible. Eventually, I’m sure they would negotiate some sort of preexisting conditions clause. Also, this is the most important of all their demands. Having insurance covering you for 6 years after college for the injuries you take on while playing for the team is a great thing to go after, especially when you consider the number of jobs after graduation that don’t provide any health insurance. Gonna be really interesting to see how this all gets worked out.

reasonable? a 50% split of the PROFITS, not dropping sports, and health insurance after they play is reasonable?

curious, if you work on an oil platform and you leave that job does that former employer cover your health insurance for the next 6 years?

i can think of no job that pays for your health insurance after you are done outside of military service and the nfl and i am not sure on the degree those are covered.

the scope and scale of the health insurance request is far greater than i believe you appreciate.

just the setup and the administration and we you talk about negotiating the terms negotiating with whom? the schools? the conferences? the ncaa?

will these benefits extend beyond the p5 level because if the schools agree at a p5 school how much longer before they are sought at lower levels?
 

NORMLFROG

Full Member
reasonable? a 50% split of the PROFITS, not dropping sports, and health insurance after they play is reasonable?

curious, if you work on an oil platform and you leave that job does that former employer cover your health insurance for the next 6 years?

i can think of no job that pays for your health insurance after you are done outside of military service and the nfl and i am not sure on the degree those are covered.

the scope and scale of the health insurance request is far greater than i believe you appreciate.

just the setup and the administration and we you talk about negotiating the terms negotiating with whom? the schools? the conferences? the ncaa?

will these benefits extend beyond the p5 level because if the schools agree at a p5 school how much longer before they are sought at lower levels?
RE: health insurance. If the NCAA wants to maintain some level of control over the p-5 they should consider this ins proposal issue. They already have the catastrophic ins program in place. They might be in the best position to administer some type of ins program. It would also be some type of leverage against the p-5 just cutting and running to do their own thing. That's what they fear, right? I don't think 6 years post career is reasonable but maybe 24-36 months? Also, maybe carve out some CTE related exceptions?

It just seems that this could be an opportunity for the NCAA to rein in the p-5 a bit(and perhaps do something that is legitimately in the athlete's best interest)

NF
 

Eight

Member
RE: health insurance. If the NCAA wants to maintain some level of control over the p-5 they should consider this ins proposal issue. They already have the catastrophic ins program in place. They might be in the best position to administer some type of ins program. It would also be some type of leverage against the p-5 just cutting and running to do their own thing. That's what they fear, right? I don't think 6 years post career is reasonable but maybe 24-36 months? Also, maybe carve out some CTE related exceptions?

It just seems that this could be an opportunity for the NCAA to rein in the p-5 a bit(and perhaps do something that is legitimately in the athlete's best interest)

NF

don't disagree that this type of negotiation between the schools and the athletes isn't going to work and the ncaa is the logical choice

in response to the length of coverage i think the 6 years really makes no sense as the type of problems are most likely going to be chronic in nature, but i can't see the ncaa or the schools wanting to take on those obligations long term and as i asked before if you offer is at the p5 level than what about all d1? the lower levels as well?

i really don't think some realize the potential consequences to the schools offering sports
 

SuperBarrFrog

Active Member
reasonable? a 50% split of the PROFITS, not dropping sports, and health insurance after they play is reasonable?

curious, if you work on an oil platform and you leave that job does that former employer cover your health insurance for the next 6 years?

i can think of no job that pays for your health insurance after you are done outside of military service and the nfl and i am not sure on the degree those are covered.

the scope and scale of the health insurance request is far greater than i believe you appreciate.

just the setup and the administration and we you talk about negotiating the terms negotiating with whom? the schools? the conferences? the ncaa?

will these benefits extend beyond the p5 level because if the schools agree at a p5 school how much longer before they are sought at lower levels?

If you read my first post I specifically said everything except the revenue splits and just said in the post you responded to the same about not dropping sports. And yes I think the the health insurance is definitely important and something that players should stand for. Comparing players to oil workers means you agree that players should be considered employees, correct? And yes I absolutely believe if you suffer health problems from working in oil fields, those companies should continue to pay health bills. Also, as someone who has been severely injured while working I tend to be pretty sympathetic about this stuff.
 

Eight

Member
If you read my first post I specifically said everything except the revenue splits and just said in the post you responded to the same about not dropping sports. And yes I think the the health insurance is definitely important and something that players should stand for. Comparing players to oil workers means you agree that players should be considered employees, correct? And yes I absolutely believe if you suffer health problems from working in oil fields, those companies should continue to pay health bills.

the problem is they only ask for five things and three of them are basically deal breakers so i hope you don't negotiate for a living

never said they are employees, they are asking to be treated like employees so welcome to the real world.

as far as should pay, that reminds me of talking to family in washington who believe that workers in fast food restaurants there should be paid a living wage. the question they won't answer is how much do you want to pay for a hamburger?
 

SuperBarrFrog

Active Member
the problem is they only ask for five things and three of them are basically deal breakers so i hope you don't negotiate for a living

never said they are employees, they are asking to be treated like employees so welcome to the real world.

as far as should pay, that reminds me of talking to family in washington who believe that workers in fast food restaurants there should be paid a living wage. the question they won't answer is how much do you want to pay for a hamburger?

They ask for more than 5 things if you read the demands, many of which are gimmes like covid safety precautions and whatnot. We obviously disagree on how much leverage is had by the players. In the next year we’re certainly gonna find out some answers. I’ll be watching the developments and hopefully some on field product as well.
 

Frozen Frog

Active Member
One thing I have hoped with the XFL was that they would have a system similar to baseball or maybe basketball. If you are good enough you can start playing professional football anytime you want. You can start straight from high school or after your first year of college. If you aren't or want to avoid the XFL you can go the current college route. I think a lot of guys would find they might not be as good as they think. There was a movement a few months ago to have the HBCU schools to start a league outside of the NCAA where players would be paid. I am all for either solution.
 

SuperBarrFrog

Active Member
One thing I have hoped with the XFL was that they would have a system similar to baseball or maybe basketball. If you are good enough you can start playing professional football anytime you want. You can start straight from high school or after your first year of college. If you aren't or want to avoid the XFL you can go the current college route. I think a lot of guys would find they might not be as good as they think. There was a movement a few months ago to have the HBCU schools to start a league outside of the NCAA where players would be paid. I am all for either solution.

Had not heard the HBCU thing. Interesting.
 

geezer

Colonel, USAF (Retired)
i can think of no job that pays for your health insurance after you are done outside of military service and the nfl and i am not sure on the degree those are covered.

If you serve a full military career to retirement, the TRICARE health benefit pays 80% of doctor/medical costs and prescription drugs (with co-pay). Dental and vision not covered. Therefore, a retiree is responsible for the rest out-of-pocket. However, there are supplemental policies offered through military organizations at minimal cost ($30-40 per month) that takes care of all co-pays (doctor/medical).

When a military retiree reaches age 65, Medicare becomes the primary insurer and TRICARE assumes the role of secondary payer. Net result is zero out-of-pocket for the retiree for any doctor/medical bills. Still have co-pays for prescriptions (amount varies based on what drugs you're prescribed.) And still have to get other insurance (or pay out of pocket) for dental and vision.

Great benefit, if you're willing/able to serve a full career (and all that wearing the uniform requires.)
 
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