• The KillerFrogs

Horned Frog Basketball v OU

Eight

Member
Eight, I respect your opinion. For me I’m all in, that’s the only way I know to be a fan, and I felt just the same way after we lost to WVU to keep us from going to a bowl. Games like Saturday are a kick in the stomach and will always be for me. I’m not sorry for being that kind of fan.

rose bowl, what makes this board work for me is that we have people here we different perspective who are willing to say and stand by what they believe and i respect your thoughts about tcu, the program, and dixon.

you have never wavered in your stance and bring a great deal to the board

the one thing i would say is that when you ask people to be committed to the program with a passion similar to yours that does mean that with some with come their expectations.

i do believe the frogs both overachieved this year and left a great deal of opportunity on the table.

i do have optimism about the program mixed with some real concerns.

others might see the same, some blue skys, and some see doom and gloom. not enough of us alums and supporters to split the herd and i think in the end we all want to see the programs succeed
 

Rose Bowl

Active Member
If he's only 30% into a rebuild 4 full years into his tenure than he is failing at his job. And getting people to buy in is hard when they see the kind of basketball we play on way too regular a basis. At this point I think a lot more people would "buy in" if we went another direction. We saw how "bought in" JD is to TCU when he tried to circumvent or otherwise reduce the buyout in his contract last year.

And as far as it taking time to get people connected and willing to put in the money, that mostly happened before JD got here, and he personally has probably benefited most from that investment in the program.

Wex I’m not talking about the money folks I’m talking about butts in the seats. When you have 1k empty seats on senior day with one of the greatest players in program history graduating that’s not buying in to me. You get back to me when all the seats have someone in them. The TCU community can’t fill a 6500 seat arena and to me that is sad.

Winning games doesn’t by itself build a program, never has and never will. You have to have widespread support from the ticket buying public or your never going to be a good program.
 

Eight

Member
Wex I’m not talking about the money folks I’m talking about butts in the seats. When you have 1k empty seats on senior day with one of the greatest players in program history graduating that’s not buying in to me. You get back to me when all the seats have someone in them. The TCU community can’t fill a 6500 seat arena and to me that is sad.

Winning games doesn’t by itself build a program, never has and never will. You have to have widespread support from the ticket buying public or your never going to be a good program.

question. how many seats are available to students and how many are held by season ticket holders?

not trying to blame one group or another. when i was student i can't think of a game when we couldn't get it with id because the game was a stand out. this was during killer's time and you had some really good teams coming to ft worth in sutton's arkansas team, the houston teams, and the bliss smu teams with koncack, larry davis, wright, and the short, fat point guard.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Wex I’m not talking about the money folks I’m talking about butts in the seats. When you have 1k empty seats on senior day with one of the greatest players in program history graduating that’s not buying in to me. You get back to me when all the seats have someone in them. The TCU community can’t fill a 6500 seat arena and to me that is sad.

Winning games doesn’t by itself build a program, never has and never will. You have to have widespread support from the ticket buying public or your never going to be a good program.

If we were winning games we'd have more butts in seats, period. You're never going to have widespread support from the ticket buying public unless a good (and winning) product is put on the floor. The TCU football program didn't become what it did because people started buying tickets and going to games, it became what it did because they started winning a lot of games.....and because of that people got interested. Let's see how invested people are in TCU football and how full the stands are if we reel off a few .500 seasons in a row. Heck, even this year the actual game attendance was FAR lower than what it was in '14 and '15. Why do you think that was?
 

BleedNPurple

Active Member
It's like Jurassic Park. You know when Jeff Goldblum is basically predicting what's about to happen even though it looks cool at first. Then it actually happens and the T-Rex with the big jaws and I think there are finally 4 people left at the end. Then there's Newman from Seinfeld with the shave cream can and I think we all know what that represents with TCU basketball.

So I think that's what he meant.
Exactly! Thanks!
 

Rose Bowl

Active Member
Wex, we’ve won 84 games in four years. My point is just because this year we’re not as good as we hoped doesn’t mean we haven’t improved as a program. One down year, if that’s all it is, will not diminish what the staff has done. I have faith.
 

flyfishingfrog

Active Member
Wex I’m not talking about the money folks I’m talking about butts in the seats. When you have 1k empty seats on senior day with one of the greatest players in program history graduating that’s not buying in to me. You get back to me when all the seats have someone in them. The TCU community can’t fill a 6500 seat arena and to me that is sad.

Winning games doesn’t by itself build a program, never has and never will. You have to have widespread support from the ticket buying public or your never going to be a good program.
It’s spring break
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Wex, we’ve won 84 games in four years. My point is just because this year we’re not as good as we hoped doesn’t mean we haven’t improved as a program. One down year, if that’s all it is, will not diminish what the staff has done. I have faith.

It's been more than one down year and I think JD's first team here was better than his fourth team, and there is a very real chance next year could be the his worst team yet. I'm pretty sure exactly nobody will predict we finish in the top half of the league. That's my main argument, we're going on the 5th year now and it feels like we're still kind of just hanging on trying not to be terrible. If JD turns it around, great, but the bar seems to have been lowered quite a bit. I'm sure next year it will be because we are so young (isn't that kind of an excuse every year) and breaking in so many new players.
 

BleedNPurple

Active Member
Wex I’m not talking about the money folks I’m talking about butts in the seats. When you have 1k empty seats on senior day with one of the greatest players in program history graduating that’s not buying in to me. You get back to me when all the seats have someone in them. The TCU community can’t fill a 6500 seat arena and to me that is sad.

Winning games doesn’t by itself build a program, never has and never will. You have to have widespread support from the ticket buying public or your never going to be a good program.


I was out of town but gave my seats to 2 future frogs and their mom. I apologize for my rant- there was some rum involved but I predicted we would lose when we went in at halftime with that big lead and when they went in I yelled at the TV at our star player “be sure and come out for the second half!” Not only did my prediction come true but on a last second shot and a melt down defense I am still not over it. It was a shot to my gut too in case you couldn’t tell. I am moving onto baseball now- don’t think my blood pressure will allow me to watch another TCU men’s basketball game this season.
 

Farmfrog

Active Member
It's been more than one down year and I think JD's first team here was better than his fourth team, and there is a very real chance next year could be the his worst team yet. I'm pretty sure exactly nobody will predict we finish in the top half of the league. That's my main argument, we're going on the 5th year now and it feels like we're still kind of just hanging on trying not to be terrible. If JD turns it around, great, but the bar seems to have been lowered quite a bit. I'm sure next year it will be because we are so young (isn't that kind of an excuse every year) and breaking in so many new players.

Speaking for myself this program is in better shape than it’s been in a very long time. We’re light years ahead of where we were under Christian and Johnson and it’s not even close. If we can Jamie we will be starting over and very easily be back to those days. If this time next year we aren’t showing improvement then we can talk about what we do.
 

Wog68

Active Member
It's been more than one down year and I think JD's first team here was better than his fourth team, and there is a very real chance next year could be the his worst team yet. I'm pretty sure exactly nobody will predict we finish in the top half of the league. That's my main argument, we're going on the 5th year now and it feels like we're still kind of just hanging on trying not to be terrible. If JD turns it around, great, but the bar seems to have been lowered quite a bit. I'm sure next year it will be because we are so young (isn't that kind of an excuse every year) and breaking in so many new players.
Wasn't JD's first team mostly Johnson's guys plus Bane?
 

Wexahu

Full Member
Wasn't JD's first team mostly Johnson's guys plus Bane?

Not sure, I think there were maybe a few more that JD brought in but not exactly sure who came in when. But I'd take that team over this this year's version any day, and next year we are looking at probably another case where 7-11 is probably a best case scenario and it could get real ugly considering Tech, OSU, OU and Texas should be better. So I really don't get the idea that this thing is building and the program is getting better and better. It's easier to argue that it's getting worse just by the quality of teams we are putting out there relative to the prior ones.
 

Eight

Member
Speaking for myself this program is in better shape than it’s been in a very long time. We’re light years ahead of where we were under Christian and Johnson and it’s not even close. If we can Jamie we will be starting over and very easily be back to those days. If this time next year we aren’t showing improvement then we can talk about what we do.

interesting that in jamie's first two seasons at tcu with rosters predominantly comprised of trent's players (with contribution from a couple of key dixon recruits) the frogs were 15-21 in conference play.

the last two years with rosters comprised predominantly and then this yearly solely players recruited by dixon and his staff the frogs are 14-22 in conference play.

the out of conference records are similar and i am not a big fan of comparing out of conference results because the level of difficulty isn't equal. i realize that same could be said about conference play as well, but at least they are play the same 9 teams twice each season.

frogs treaded water a bit the past two seasons and i do think there is potential for next year depending on a few keys.

first, we don't see a few key or overall wholesale change over of the roster. dixon and the frogs can't go back and make changes to prevent him completely turning over four recruiting classes which put him in the situation he was in this past year, but the trend has to stop and at the very least slowed so they don't have to rebuild the roster in the off season.

have no idea if there is a real risk of a player or players leaving, but i do know it is really tough for players to get better in your sister if they are no longer in your system.

second, some players need to make some big jumps in the program between now and next year. rj, pj, and smith must get better shooting the basketball. frogs simply can't have guards shooting in the thirty percents from the floor and low 30's from 3. if you take bane and grayer out of the mix the frogs as a team shot 31% from 3.

rj will have been in the system 4 years and he has to get better shooting the ball or take a smaller role in the offense. he got much better shooting free throws, but he still struggled shooting the ball going from 35% to 36% from the floor in a year and staying roughly 30% from 3. that doesn't mean he can't or won't get better but he is going to have to significantly improve shooting the ball if he is going to be an effective leader on the offensive end.

say with smith and fuller as they can not shoot at the levels they shot this year and i don't care how nice any players shoot in form or their release. at that matters is does it go in and right now they both miss much more than they make.

one player i think many have forgotten or don't realize is on the roster is easley who shot 44% from the floor and 40% from 3 for middle tennessee state. those percentages put him near the top of the frogs most effective shooters and his 14 pts and 6 rebounds would be a big help if the frogs can get a few other players to be effective in the half court.

finally, the frogs must have young players contribute and i mean make big impacts. miles has to help, someone between pearson and frank need to help up front and it is not unrealistic to expect young players to contribute.
 
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RoyaltyWorePurple

Active Member
interesting that in jamie's first two seasons at tcu with rosters predominantly comprised of trent's players (with contribution from a couple of key dixon recruits) the frogs were 15-21 in conference play.

the last two years with rosters comprised predominantly and then this yearly solely players recruited by dixon and his staff the frogs are 14-22 in conference play.

the out of conference records are similar and i am not a big fan of comparing out of conference results because the level of difficulty isn't equal. i realize that same could be said about conference play as well, but at least they are play the same 9 teams twice each season.

frogs treaded water a bit the past two seasons and i do think there is potential for next year depending on a few keys.

first, we don't see a few key or overall wholesale change over of the roster. dixon and the frogs can't go back and make changes to prevent him completely turning over four recruiting classes which put him in the situation he was in this past year, but the trend has to stop and at the very least slowed so they don't have to rebuild the roster in the off season.

have no idea if there is a real risk of a player or players leaving, but i do know it is really tough for players to get better in your sister if they are no longer in your sister.

second, some players need to make some big jumps in the program between now and next year. rj, pj, and smith must get better shooting the basketball. frogs simply can't have guards shooting in the thirty percents from the floor and low 30's from 3. if you take bane and grayer out of the mix the frogs as a team shot 31% from 3.

rj will have been in the system 4 years and he has to get better shooting the ball or take a smaller role in the offense. he got much better shooting free throws, but he still struggled shooting the ball going from 35% to 36% from the floor in a year and staying roughly 30% from 3. that doesn't mean he can't or won't get better but he is going to have to significantly improve shooting the ball if he is going to be an effective leader on the offensive end.

say with smith and fuller as they can not shoot at the levels they shot this year and i don't care how nice any players shoot in form or their release. at that matters is does it go in and right now they both miss much more than they make.

one player i think many have forgotten or don't realize is on the roster is easley who shot 44% from the floor and 40% from 3 for middle tennessee state. those percentages put him near the top of the frogs most effective shooters and his 14 pts and 6 rebounds would be a big help if the frogs can get a few other players to be effective in the half court.

finally, the frogs must have young players contribute and i mean make big impacts. miles has to help, someone between pearson and frank need to help up front and it is not unrealistic to expect young players to contribute.

Clear and well thought out. I think we also forget not only about the incoming freshmen, but that there is some talent in transfers that didn't see the floor. I really don't want to start over with new coaching and re-recruit a bunch of guys either. JD certainly hits a hotter seat next year, but you would have thought we were picked to finish top 2 in the conference by the way people are acting.
 

Eight

Member
Clear and well thought out. I think we also forget not only about the incoming freshmen, but that there is some talent in transfers that didn't see the floor. I really don't want to start over with new coaching and re-recruit a bunch of guys either. JD certainly hits a hotter seat next year, but you would have thought we were picked to finish top 2 in the conference by the way people are acting.

can't speak for anyone else, but i know for me the frustration this year is a mix of a narrative that seems to have a built in excuse of the challenges this team faced because of all the new players and the same type of mistakes being made again and again and again.

this wasn't a young team, there might have been players new to the program, but the frogs often times started 3 seniors with 2 red-shirt sophomores.

i won't speak for pharm but he has made the point multiple times that this team just didn't make good decisions at times when a choice was made you wouldn't expect from a team comprised of 5 starters who have been in college a combined 18-20 seasons.
 

RoyaltyWorePurple

Active Member
can't speak for anyone else, but i know for me the frustration this year is a mix of a narrative that seems to have a built in excuse of the challenges this team faced because of all the new players and the same type of mistakes being made again and again and again.

this wasn't a young team, there might have been players new to the program, but the frogs often times started 3 seniors with 2 red-shirt sophomores.

i won't speak for pharm but he has made the point multiple times that this team just didn't make good decisions at times when a choice was made you wouldn't expect from a team comprised of 5 starters who have been in college a combined 18-20 seasons.
Both Grayer and Dennis showed flashes of brilliancy and also downright incompetency, I don't think that there was any indication that they were the "missing piece". It really was more unfortunate that we didn't get to see Bane get more of a complete roster. Grad transfers certainly shouldn't be looked at as a great way to fill a roster, because if they were that good....they'd be getting a degree and going pro.
 
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