TCU vs Longhorns Wednesday Night Basketball

[CountryFrog]

That view seems awfully defeatist to me. TCU is not a basketball power but neither was baylor before Drew got there. And no the program hasn't had much success recently but it is a program that has won conference championships with Tubbs, and Killer and Swaim so lets not act like success is impossible here. We have everything in place for hoops success that programs like Tech, KSU and okie light have.

Dixon won't, and possibly shouldn't, be let go this year - to many years remaining on that over $3 million per year contract. But lets not stick our heads in the sand about the absolute BAD basketball, poor talent evaluations, sub par player development, incoherent offensive system and really, really bad shooting from the field AND the free throw line. There are some major flaws in this program right now and the oft repeated excuse of "youth" is far down the list of major issues.

You don't have to be a trained chef to know when a meal is rotten. And the hoops Dixon has served us the last two seasons is rancid.

I don't believe Baylor got instantly good as soon as Drew showed up and they've had down years too.

My attitude isn't defeatist at all. I never said we'll always be this way just that we are this way RIGHT NOW and anyone who doesn't accept that is lying to themselves. If I look at our record this century and see something terrible then I'm not being defeatist, I'm simply recognizing the reality of what this program has been prior to Dixon getting here.

We have a tremendous baseball and football program and it seems that some fans simply want to attribute that success to the magic of TCU which would therefore mean that ALL of our programs should be at that level and if they're not then we're just one coaching change away from making it happen. That's not reality.

 

[Dogfrog]

Almost every opponent plays better perimeter defense than we do. And they work harder on defense. They know we live by the 3 and they extend the perimeter well outside the 3 line, like 5-10 feet. Our perimeter defense is extended a little occasionally but played mostly right at the 3 line. It’s why opponents always seem to have their season best shooting against us. KS is capable but we aren’t forcing it in there and have little interior driving capability. So we are easy to defend. Still, my only real concern on the season is the two losses to Texas. Should have won both. We would be 7-6 in conference.

 

[BrewingFrog]

...But lets not stick our heads in the sand about the absolute BAD basketball, poor talent evaluations, sub par player development, incoherent offensive system and really, really bad shooting from the field AND the free throw line. There are some major flaws in this program right now and the oft repeated excuse of "youth" is far down the list of major issues.

You don't have to be a trained chef to know when a meal is rotten. And the hoops Dixon has served us the last two seasons is rancid.

This.

As far as cutting Dixon slack, he has been cut quite a bit up to now. Yet, what we are seeing out on the floor is a mess of bad fundamentals and dispirited play. When these players were being looked at and evaluated against many others, how is it that it was not apparent that they would not perform well at the D-1 level? Their peers seem to do well and adjust at other programs. Why is it that our program seems to be some awful soul-sucking hole of demoralization and plodding mediocrity (on good days)? Why did pretty much the whole team check out via The Portal at the end of last season?

We are gaslighted with "Oh, but we have this great recruiting class coming in!" Really? You mean like last year's? And the year before? That's working out swimmingly...

 

[CountryFrog]

Its laughable how out of touch with reality so many of you seem to be. There's not a single person in America outside of TCU fans who has EVER looked at TCU as a great place to win a lot of college basketball games and consistently be in the tournament. Yet some of you act like we're getting screwed over because we've only made one NCAA tournament and 2 NIT's in Dixon's 3 full years here. Quite possibly the best 3 year run in TCU basketball history. But since a lot of guys left the team last year and left this year's roster with numerous massive holes, that's it! We're done! Get out! We deserve better!

He's taken us from a total joke to a real program. We need to take the next step obviously and if we're still right here a couple years from now then yea maybe it's not working. But the idea that we're just going to have this steady upward trajectory like the arrow of time is foolish.

It would be one thing if we only won a game or 2 this season. But I don't know how anyone can possibly look at this roster and say that we should have more wins than we currently do.

 

[jake102]

But I don't know how anyone can possibly look at this roster and say that we should have more wins than we currently do.

The roster is like his job.

I'm in favor of keeping him, for the record. But time is getting short.

 

[CountryFrog]

The roster is like his job.

I'm in favor of keeping him, for the record. But time is getting short.

Agreed. But it happened one time. Obviously if there are mass defections again then you have to point the finger at Dixon. But since it did happen then it put us in an awful spot this year.

Also agree that time is running short. Next year has to be better and we need to be back in the tournament by 2022. If not then I'm fine with looking at other options.

 

[4th. down]

Its laughable how out of touch with reality so many of you seem to be. There's not a single person in America outside of TCU fans who has EVER looked at TCU as a great place to win a lot of college basketball games and consistently be in the tournament. Yet some of you act like we're getting screwed over because we've only made one NCAA tournament and 2 NIT's in Dixon's 3 full years here. Quite possibly the best 3 year run in TCU basketball history. But since a lot of guys left the team last year and left this year's roster with numerous massive holes, that's it! We're done! Get out! We deserve better!

He's taken us from a total joke to a real program. We need to take the next step obviously and if we're still right here a couple years from now then yea maybe it's not working. But the idea that we're just going to have this steady upward trajectory like the arrow of time is foolish.

It would be one thing if we only won a game or 2 this season. But I don't know how anyone can possibly look at this roster and say that we should have more wins than we currently do.

Painful, but Jamie just has to work through it. It's his doings for the most part that the '19 debacle happened for many, many reasons. It's going to take a couple of years to get back to the dance and be respectable in conf. These mid majors will be leaving and hopefully replaced by new good recruits.

 

[Eight]

This.

As far as cutting Dixon slack, he has been cut quite a bit up to now. Yet, what we are seeing out on the floor is a mess of bad fundamentals and dispirited play. When these players were being looked at and evaluated against many others, how is it that it was not apparent that they would not perform well at the D-1 level? Their peers seem to do well and adjust at other programs. Why is it that our program seems to be some awful soul-sucking hole of demoralization and plodding mediocrity (on good days)? Why did pretty much the whole team check out via The Portal at the end of last season?

We are gaslighted with "Oh, but we have this great recruiting class coming in!" Really? You mean like last year's? And the year before? That's working out swimmingly...

satis made a point a week or so back about how hard college basketball is becoming to watch and i agree with him.

where the heck have the shooters gone and the answer isn't blaming aau basketball.

we get bombarded with talk about analytics and how a 3-point shot is more "valuable" than a a 2-point shot.

we have seen a shift in the nba game which has placed a premium on hitting 3's, goodness know the rockets gave eric gordon $52M in guaranteed money to basically stand behind the line waiting for the kick out.

we see more players who are skilled handling the ball and yet the one offensive skill you absolutely must have on your team seems to be a dying art. as hoosierfrogs has typed multple times you have to be able to score points in basketball to win games. no shut down pitching staffs or ball control offenses.

this isn't just a problem for the frogs, but it is a huge one for them and it damn well shouldn't take a kid who merits a d-1 scholarship 3 or 4 years to learn to shoot a basketball.

 

[BrewingFrog]

He's taken us from a total joke to a real program. We need to take the next step obviously and if we're still right here a couple years from now then yea maybe it's not working. But the idea that we're just going to have this steady upward trajectory like the arrow of time is foolish.

It would be one thing if we only won a game or 2 this season. But I don't know how anyone can possibly look at this roster and say that we should have more wins than we currently do.

A "real program" eh?

Sure, I'd have loved to see an NCAA Selection last season, but we really didn't deserve one given that we had at least two opportunities to solidly make the case and blew it each time. Even with the team we had, there was no killer instinct or confidence that they could do it.

And, of course, seemingly everyone not tied to the furniture fled out The Portal as soon as they could afterwards. Why?

As to this season, sure, they looked surprisingly good those first few games. But, take a look at that recent Tech road game and last night's debacle. Does the effort displayed and confidence shown in those exhibitions merit the title "real program"?

 

[CountryFrog]

satis made a point a week or so back about how hard college basketball is becoming to watch and i agree with him.

where the heck have the shooters gone and the answer isn't blaming aau basketball.

we get bombarded with talk about analytics and how a 3-point shot is more "valuable" than a a 2-point shot.

we have seen a shift in the nba game which has placed a premium on hitting 3's, goodness know the rockets game eric gordon $52M in guaranteed money to basically stand behind the line waiting for the kick out.

we see more players who are skilled handling the ball and yet the one offensive skill you absolutely must have on your team seems to be a dying art. as hoosierfrogs has typed multple times you have to be able to score points in basketball to win games. no shut down pitching staffs or ball control offenses.

this isn't just a problem for the frogs, but it is a huge one for them and it damn well shouldn't take a kid who merits a d-1 scholarship 3 or 4 years to learn to shoot a basketball.

MUST bring in shooters. If we don't get better shooters into the program then we're not going to see much improvement. This years team with 2 more ~40% 3 point shooters probably wins 8-10 games.

 

[BrewingFrog]

satis made a point a week or so back about how hard college basketball is becoming to watch and i agree with him.

where the heck have the shooters gone and the answer isn't blaming aau basketball.

we get bombarded with talk about analytics and how a 3-point shot is more "valuable" than a a 2-point shot.

we have seen a shift in the nba game which has placed a premium on hitting 3's, goodness know the rockets game eric gordon $52M in guaranteed money to basically stand behind the line waiting for the kick out.

we see more players who are skilled handling the ball and yet the one offensive skill you absolutely must have on your team seems to be a dying art. as hoosierfrogs has typed multple times you have to be able to score points in basketball to win games. no shut down pitching staffs or ball control offenses.

this isn't just a problem for the frogs, but it is a huge one for them and it damn well shouldn't take a kid who merits a d-1 scholarship 3 or 4 years to learn to shoot a basketball.

I blame Steve Kerr.

 

[CountryFrog]

A "real program" eh?

Sure, I'd have loved to see an NCAA Selection last season, but we really didn't deserve one given that we had at least two opportunities to solidly make the case and blew it each time. Even with the team we had, there was no killer instinct or confidence that they could do it.

And, of course, seemingly everyone not tied to the furniture fled out The Portal as soon as they could afterwards. Why?

As to this season, sure, they looked surprisingly good those first few games. But, take a look at that recent Tech road game and last night's debacle. Does the effort displayed and confidence shown in those exhibitions merit the title "real program"?

So our very worst performances in our very worst year is what defines whether or not we're a real program? That's dumb.

 

[Wexahu]

An argument can be made that NOW the AD may need to consider doing something. We can all have different opinions about what those specific changes should be but it's at least a conversation worth having.

The post I was responding to was blaming the AD for the issues we've seen in ALL SPORTS from the time that he started as AD. As if the guy should've shown up on day one and gotten into all 3 coaches faces with raised expectations and a new plan for the future.

No, obviously expecting him to do that wasn't realistic. But we'll find out what kind of AD he is when some big decisions need to be made, and one of those might be soon approaching. His honeymoon period is about over.

 

[BrewingFrog]

So our very worst performances in our very worst year is what defines whether or not we're a real program? That's dumb.

Hardly. I would think that a "real program" is one that shows positive consistency over the tenure of a Coach. What many have been lamenting is the absolute inconsistency, the display of an ability to perform at a particular level at one point, and the inability to do so later on. The show of tenacity at one time, and the abject surrender at a later one. This is in a season after a near-NCAA selection, when one would normally expect more saltiness form veteran players... Oh! Never mind...

 

[Eight]

Agreed. But it happened one time. Obviously if there are mass defections again then you have to point the finger at Dixon. But since it did happen then it put us in an awful spot this year.

Also agree that time is running short. Next year has to be better and we need to be back in the tournament by 2022. If not then I'm fine with looking at other options.

the roster issue this year is not a matter of a one time mass defection, but continued misses and erosion of the 2016, 2017, and 2018 classes.

dixon signed 15 players in those 3 classes and only 3 players remain on the roster today.

2016 frogs signed bane, fisher, noi, and parrish with parrish transferring out in 2016 and fish and no leaving last season.

2017 frogs signed mayen, nembhard, olden, pierce, rafus, and samuel with pierce opting to play in europe, rafus never qualified, odlen i believe left after 2017, and lat leaving last season.

somewhere in here angus mcwilliams came, got hurt, and left, but i do know he was gone before last year

2018 frogs signed alok archie, barlow, and davis and we know how that class turned out.

i understand some kids need time to develop, understand there might be unique and legit stories behind why players didn't pan out our left, but when you sign 15 players in 3 classes and 3 years later on 3 are on your roster you damn well better be kentucky or duke and even more frustrating is only 4 of those 15 contributed at an impactful level there first year in the program.

skip has already told me i am wrong in not being happy with the play of fuller, farabello, and smith and i know others think i am an idiot for thinking this, but then i look at other teams in college basketball and they have freshmen who make contributions their first year out and i am not talking about the kentucky's and duke's.

my ignorant perspective on all this is over a 3-year stretch the frogs not only recruited a large number of kids who couldn't help in year 1, but lost 80% before they had a chance to truly develop.

that isn't a 1 year mass defection, but something wrong in the program i will say that not only has dixon flipped over his roster but his coaching staff as well with only 1 assistant he came to ft worth with and i am open to the idea the rebuilding will take a few seasons, but if we see the same continued pattern of attrition in this off season that is a very big red flag

 

[CountryFrog]

Hardly. I would think that a "real program" is one that shows positive consistency over the tenure of a Coach. What many have been lamenting is the absolute inconsistency, the display of an ability to perform at a particular level at one point, and the inability to do so later on. The show of tenacity at one time, and the abject surrender at a later one. This is in a season after a near-NCAA selection, when one would normally expect more saltiness form veteran players... Oh! Never mind...

Go check out the season that college basketball blue blood North Carolina is having under their hall of fame coach. Hell look out to West Texas at the team who almost won it all last year and now is looking like a 10 or 11 seed this year. It happens.

I will say that I FULLY understand that I am in the overwhelming minority, not just on this board but with sports fans in general, in thinking that coaches should be given more time on the job before being fired. I think about 90% of firings in college and pro sports are far too reactionary and happen too early. I'm of the opinion that stability and consistency are vital to the health of a sports team and constant changes after 2-3 years do nothing but exacerbate the problem. See the Browns, Raiders, Bucs, Jets, Dolphins, Kings, T-Wolves, Suns, Knicks, Cavs, Miami football, Nebraska football, USC football, etc.

So by those standards of most sports fans I understand why a lot of people feel like 4 years for Dixon is more than enough time. I happen to strongly disagree with that.

 

[CountryFrog]

the roster issue this year is not a matter of a one time mass defection, but continued misses and erosion of the 2016, 2017, and 2018 classes.

dixon signed 15 players in those 3 classes and only 3 players remain on the roster today.

2016 frogs signed bane, fisher, noi, and parrish with parrish transferring out in 2016 and fish and no leaving last season.

2017 frogs signed mayen, nembhard, olden, pierce, rafus, and samuel with pierce opting to play in europe, rafus never qualified, odlen i believe left after 2017, and lat leaving last season.

somewhere in here angus mcwilliams came, got hurt, and left, but i do know he was gone before last year

2018 frogs signed alok archie, barlow, and davis and we know how that class turned out.

i understand some kids need time to develop, understand there might be unique and legit stories behind why players didn't pan out our left, but when you sign 15 players in 3 classes and 3 years later on 3 are on your roster you damn well better be kentucky or duke and even more frustrating is only 4 of those 15 contributed at an impactful level there first year in the program.

skip has already told me i am wrong in not being happy with the play of fuller, farabello, and smith and i know others think i am an idiot for thinking this, but then i look at other teams in college basketball and they have freshmen who make contributions their first year out and i am not talking about the kentucky's and duke's.

my ignorant perspective on all this is over a 3-year stretch the frogs not only recruited a large number of kids who couldn't help in year 1, but lost 80% before they had a chance to truly develop.

that isn't a 1 year mass defection, but something wrong in the program i will say that not only has dixon flipped over his roster but his coaching staff as well with only 1 assistant he came to ft worth with and i am open to the idea the rebuilding will take a few seasons, but if we see the same continued pattern of attrition in this off season that is a very big red flag

Can't argue with that. I would only say that there will ALWAYS be a degree of turnover in every roster every year. So I think that's what we mostly saw the first couple years. Then suddenly last year happened and that was extreme and one extreme year of attrition plus 2 fairly normal years adds up to a lot. 2019 was still the outlier.

Again, it can't keep going that way. But we had a pretty good roster when people were healthy and eligible those first three years. So the staff has shown the ability to bring in good players. Now they have to do a better job of keeping them in the program and on the floor.

 

[Genbukan]

Its laughable how out of touch with reality so many of you seem to be. There's not a single person in America outside of TCU fans who has EVER looked at TCU as a great place to win a lot of college basketball games and consistently be in the tournament. Yet some of you act like we're getting screwed over because we've only made one NCAA tournament and 2 NIT's in Dixon's 3 full years here. Quite possibly the best 3 year run in TCU basketball history. But since a lot of guys left the team last year and left this year's roster with numerous massive holes, that's it! We're done! Get out! We deserve better!

He's taken us from a total joke to a real program. We need to take the next step obviously and if we're still right here a couple years from now then yea maybe it's not working. But the idea that we're just going to have this steady upward trajectory like the arrow of time is foolish.

It would be one thing if we only won a game or 2 this season. But I don't know how anyone can possibly look at this roster and say that we should have more wins than we currently do.

Out of touch with reality? To me that would be expecting us to win national championships every 5 years. I have never seen or heard any TCU fan expect that. I believe the expectation is that we would always be competitive (no 30 and 40 point embarrassments) and finish in the top half of the conference. In a conference that routinely gets 7 teams to the dance i don't think that is unrealistic at all for a program that has invested in hoops like we now have.

I would go as far as to say the fans out of touch with reality are the ones who continue to throw out baylor-sque type of excuses for the piss poor product that has been put on the floor since late December 2018. If you watched, really watched, our first exhibition game this season against a D III Non Scholarship team you saw the issues. I am hard pressed to see ANY improvement in those flaws since that game. Yeah we have an occasional game where someone gets hot and can help Bane but the sloppy passing, the inattention to detail, the non existent offensive flow, the inability to get a talented athlete like Samuel to contribute offensively on anything other than an open dunk, the chicken with its head cut off defensive rotations and the negligible contributions from ANOTHER highly ranked freshman class......this isn't a rebuilding season. This is a cluster!

The problem is there is talent here. In my almost 50 years of watching frog basketball i am not sure i have ever seen anything like this squad. I have seen plenty of teams that have had substantially less talent than this one but i have never seen a lesser return on that talent. This team gets the award for doing less with more.

I say again...this is not a call for CJD to be fired here and now. There are a handful of reasons why that is not a good decision. But his seat needs to start getting hot. This is the kind of product that drives a fragile fanbase away a long time.

 

[PurpleBlood87]

Some of you should try watching/attending one of our ladies’ games. You’d be happier.

I've covered enough girls high school basketball games to never want to pay to see women's college basketball. Same goes for women's volleyball.

 

[CountryFrog]

Out of touch with reality? To me that would be expecting us to win national championships every 5 years. I have never seen or heard any TCU fan expect that. I believe the expectation is that we would always be competitive (no 30 and 40 point embarrassments) and finish in the top half of the conference. In a conference that routinely gets 7 teams to the dance i don't think that is unrealistic at all for a program that has invested in hoops like we now have.

I would go as far as to say the fans out of touch with reality are the ones who continue to throw out baylor-sque type of excuses for the piss poor product that has been put on the floor since late December 2018. If you watched, really watched, our first exhibition game this season against a D III Non Scholarship team you saw the issues. I am hard pressed to see ANY improvement in those flaws since that game. Yeah we have an occasional game where someone gets hot and can help Bane but the sloppy passing, the inattention to detail, the non existent offensive flow, the inability to get a talented athlete like Samuel to contribute offensively on anything other than an open dunk, the chicken with its head cut off defensive rotations and the negligible contributions from ANOTHER highly ranked freshman class......this isn't a rebuilding season. This is a cluster!

The problem is there is talent here. In my almost 50 years of watching frog basketball i am not sure i have ever seen anything like this squad. I have seen plenty of teams that have had substantially less talent than this one but i have never seen a lesser return on that talent. This team gets the award for doing less with more.

I say again...this is not a call for CJD to be fired here and now. There are a handful of reasons why that is not a good decision. But his seat needs to start getting hot. This is the kind of product that drives a fragile fanbase away a long time.

I guess it just comes down to the difference between goals for the future and where we want to get to as a program and balancing that with realistic expectations for the here and now until we reach that point where we want to be.

I personally think the mistake fans make is thinking that any rebuilding team should get to X level of success after Y amount of time. You have to be able to look at each year individually AND judge the overall trajectory of the program. I see the last 4 years as an overall very positive step forward. This one season has not been good but I don't confuse one bad season with the entire program being bad.

I see the program still getting better but until we actually have ONE year of being in the top half of the Big 12 then it does seem foolish to me to think that consistently being in the top half of the conference is a realistic expectation. It's fine to have as a goal for the future but with the understanding that there will be some bumps in the road along the way.