• The KillerFrogs

OT: How Do You Invest Your Money?

McFroggin

Active Member
So how many people on here subscribe to the theory you should take on debt as long as you can earn more than the interest rate?

I’m going to need to buy a new vehicle next year, plan is to pay cash but theoretically I could take debt at a terribly low rate and surely beat it. Thoughts?

First ask yourself how the bad debt will effect you.

If you are a stock market/passive person, I’d get an interest rate under 2% and ride it out. The market will beat it 90% of the time. That’s a rough number, but obviously odds say invest.

If you are a real estate person, bad debt may effect your debt to income ratio and other factors that alter your ability to qualify for loans. If you can get your spouse or yourself to qualify as a real estate professional under the tax code, you should do it. This type of person should pay cash.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
So how many people on here subscribe to the theory you should take on debt as long as you can earn more than the interest rate?

I’m going to need to buy a new vehicle next year, plan is to pay cash but theoretically I could take debt at a terribly low rate and surely beat it. Thoughts?

Looking at it like that it will always seem like a good idea to take on the biggest loan you can. But while it's likely you'll earn more than the interest rate it's no guarantee. I just think it's better for peace of mind to have as little debt as possible. Car payments suck. You'll probably find yourself accelerating the paydown if you do get a car loan anyway.
 

ftwfrog

Active Member
So how many people on here subscribe to the theory you should take on debt as long as you can earn more than the interest rate?

I’m going to need to buy a new vehicle next year, plan is to pay cash but theoretically I could take debt at a terribly low rate and surely beat it. Thoughts?
I subscribe to the theory that I take on debt because I can’t pay cash.
 

tcumaniac

Full Member
So how many people on here subscribe to the theory you should take on debt as long as you can earn more than the interest rate?

I’m going to need to buy a new vehicle next year, plan is to pay cash but theoretically I could take debt at a terribly low rate and surely beat it. Thoughts?
I subscribe to it in theory. I’m also very risk adverse, so I don’t know how quick I would be to actually act on it. Would depend on how confident I was in the alternative use of my money. I currently have my excess cash in a high interest savings account earning 2.25%, so anything car loan below that would be a no brainer.

In principal, taking out debt on a depreciable asset like a car is obviously a terrible proposition, but with the amount of sub 3% interest rate promotions available (and even a lot 0% APR deals) it’s almost free money (and in the 0% apr situation it is).
 

Shorty

Active Member
So how many people on here subscribe to the theory you should take on debt as long as you can earn more than the interest rate?

I’m going to need to buy a new vehicle next year, plan is to pay cash but theoretically I could take debt at a terribly low rate and surely beat it. Thoughts?
One other consideration is that you may get a slightly better deal if you use dealer financing. Just make sure there's no early payoff penalty (I've never seen it but want to mention it). You can pay it off once you know where to send the check.
 
So how many people on here subscribe to the theory you should take on debt as long as you can earn more than the interest rate?

I’m going to need to buy a new vehicle next year, plan is to pay cash but theoretically I could take debt at a terribly low rate and surely beat it. Thoughts?

The theory is correct re:math, but your question should be framed towards what is your risk tolerance, not does it work.
 

Froggish

Active Member
Looking at it like that it will always seem like a good idea to take on the biggest loan you can. But while it's likely you'll earn more than the interest rate it's no guarantee. I just think it's better for peace of mind to have as little debt as possible. Car payments suck. You'll probably find yourself accelerating the paydown if you do get a car loan anyway.

Depends on the loan term...You can use term length to drive down the interest rate to a place where it makes since to hold on to your cash
 

JogginFrog

Active Member
I'm curious about approaches to investing--or not--for kids' higher ed. I've become cynical about the higher ed enterprise. Schools appear to massively inflate their list price, then combine it with deep discounting for exceptional students and the less affluent, in order to skim revenue from wealthy parents with unexceptional kids. The structure seems sustainable only on the basis of an ever-increasing number of wealthy internationals for whom a U.S. education is a difference-maker.

Someone mentioned the 529 plan, which I've heard is wise. Beyond that, the only things that seem to make sense are:

1. Invest in your kids (academics, extracurriculars) to give them the best chance of earning discounts (e.g. full rides for National Merit scholars).
2. Put as much money into retirement vehicles as possible (excluded from asset calculation for expected family contribution)
3. Put as much of the rest into the largest home/ranch you can afford (primary residence also excluded from EFC calculation).

I once felt bad about not saving for my kids' college. But they each earned 40+ hours of college credit during high school. They got academic and need-based aid. They worked summers. I did little beyond using the federal tax credit to leverage a modest gift into $10,000 per kid. All three will graduate debt free, though not all from their first-choice school. If I'd put away 100K per student, not much would be different, except that colleges would have relieved me of 300K.
 

frogs9497

Full Member
The firm I work for offers a 401k and matching with a Merrill Lynch platform. The plan is structured so that most of the fees are absorbed by the firm. The mutual funds are primarily Class A, which have lower expense ratios. The fund options are not what I'd choose if investing on my own, but where else will you instantly get a 50% return (i.e. matching)? So I max-out my 401k each year. My wife and I both maxed-out our Vanguard Roth IRAs in earlier years before we hit the income limit. Our non-retirement investments are held in mutual funds with Schwab. We avoid individual stocks/bonds and instead have a few low-cost dividend growth and value funds. Nothing exotic or sexy, just solid and consistent returns with an acceptable level of risk. I used to enjoy picking mutual funds, but finally learned that trying to beat the market in the long-term was a futile effort. I sit on our firm's Investment Committee and therefore have free access to market advice from the firm's asset manager. But unfortunately this has only yielded a small advantage.
 

jake102

Active Member
I subscribe to the theory that I take on debt because I can’t pay cash.

Yeah it’s an interesting debate and I know people fall on both sides. I haven’t had a car payment in like four years and not eager for another but know the math is stupid to not take a loan.
 

HFrog12

Full Member
I subscribe to it in theory. I’m also very risk adverse, so I don’t know how quick I would be to actually act on it. Would depend on how confident I was in the alternative use of my money. I currently have my excess cash in a high interest savings account earning 2.25%, so anything car loan below that would be a no brainer.

In principal, taking out debt on a depreciable asset like a car is obviously a terrible proposition, but with the amount of sub 3% interest rate promotions available (and even a lot 0% APR deals) it’s almost free money (and in the 0% apr situation it is).

Needed a new car with new kiddos and bought a big rig with 0% apr for 60 months for the entire note...and got a deal on the car. I am not sure how they get away with that. I had the capacity to put almost all of it down but there is no point. "Financed" the whole thing.
 

BrewingFrog

Was I supposed to type something here?
Stripper boobs
Funny story: A couple of the pioneering lights in "breast enhancement" work used to dine at the same sushi joint we frequented back in the day. Both drove insanely expensive Lambos and got new ones as soon as they were available.* They were also both short, balding little fellows who were a laugh a second and had a great time. A film was made, based loosely on their story called 'Breast Men' and starred some tall, GQ fellows. This caused them no shortage of laughs...


*One fine day, the richer of the two drove up in a new Lambo something-or-other, which was painted a brilliant, rich purple. Utterly beautiful! The guy knew my Froggish nature and asked, "Wanna take her for a spin?" I politely declined. Piloting a $250,000 car in deranged Houston traffic (this was on Kirby at 59) was beyond my normal level of recklessness. I stuck to my (at the time) CBR900RR!
 

jack the frog

Full Member
From my experience over the years, diversity is an absolute necessity along with an asset allocation strategy. I am about as diversified as can be albeit the various markets are much more intertwined these days.

Learn to read a balance sheet and income statement. It is the language by which these companies communicate.

Listen to conference calls.

Watch your expenses and fees.

Generally you could say I have something like a GAA strategy overall plus equity positions with overweight in REITS and have been building baskets around some Trinity portfolio variations.
 

TCUdirtbag

Active Member
Our standard:
- Max 401k contributions
- Max Roth IRA contributions just to split the tax risk difference
- 529 for kids’ college
- Pay that 30 year mortgage like a 15 by tacking on extra principal (or more aggressive when possible)
We’ve also got a brokerage that we tot around the market in - and we build savings there with the plan of doing some real estate investment (other than our home) in the near future.

It’s a marathon, not a sprint. But a sprint out the gate pays off. If you can, build your retirement account base very aggressively and make the down payment on a house before you have kids. Then as income goes up and you have kids and all their expenses, play the long game.
 

Eight

Member
Needed a new car with new kiddos and bought a big rig with 0% apr for 60 months for the entire note...and got a deal on the car. I am not sure how they get away with that. I had the capacity to put almost all of it down but there is no point. "Financed" the whole thing.

the dealership is most likely getting compensated by the manufacturer to move a specific volume of units

that is a very, very tough game to survive in and the cost of new vehicles is just flat stupid
 
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