RIP Kobe Bryant

[TCUdirtbag]

Truly tragic. My heart aches for all the families and friends of those that died.

But we shouldn’t whitewash history because Kobe died. He was rapey. If he were in anyway associated with Baylor this board would haaaaaaaaaaaaate his guts. It’s okay to admit his basketball legacy is incredible but his legacy as a person is a mixed bag.

 

[Moose Stuff]

I’m not a “hero worship” kind of guy so the tragedy of this begins and ends with a dad and daughter dying far too young (and obviously the others on board, I actually had met the JUCO baseball coach). I get the insane attention this generates but it’s totally lost on me.

 

[steelfrog]

Not just his legacy is threatened.

Lawyers are already lining up and positioning to go after his $600mm

This is a situation not infrequently seen with rich boss and young pilot wanting to impress boss.

Fog in the area to such a degree that morning that LAPD grounds all helicopter operations, and yet they take off into this on a special VFR flight clearance (not instruments).

Guy initiates a climbing left hand turn after announcing he needs to get out of the fog. Next thing happens is an aircraft that has a do not exceed velocity of 155kts, crashes into the ground at 184kts and the wreckage signature shows no horizontal velocity (i.e., he flew it straight into the ground).

Spacial disorientation, same thing killed John Kennedy Jr.

At any rate, Kobe hired the pilot, pilot error accident, so if he's not well protected by layers of corporations, the other px will be coming after his money.

 

[HFrog12]

Not just his legacy is threatened.

Lawyers are already lining up and positioning to go after his $600mm

This is a situation not infrequently seen with rich boss and young pilot wanting to impress boss.

Fog in the area to such a degree that morning that LAPD grounds all helicopter operations, and yet they take off into this on a special VFR flight clearance (not instruments).

Guy initiates a climbing left hand turn after announcing he needs to get out of the fog. Next thing happens is an aircraft that has a do not exceed velocity of 155kts, crashes into the ground at 184kts and the wreckage signature shows no horizontal velocity (i.e., he flew it straight into the ground).

Spacial disorientation, same thing killed John Kennedy Jr.

At any rate, Kobe hired the pilot, pilot error accident, so if he's not well protected by layers of corporations, the other px will be coming after his money.

I am not a flight guy but I believe early indications are the same type of thing happened to the plane crash in Lafayette carrying LSU's OC Steve Ensimger's daughter-in-law and others to the semi-final game. It was extremely foggy and they were advised not to fly and it sounds like the pilot was disoriented and crashed shortly after take off at a tremendous velocity?

First and foremost, extremely sad for all families involved in both crashes. No one deserves that! Just sad that more caution isn't taken in these circumstances.

 

[Hemingway]

There is the police transcript out there of the initial conversation with Kobe. Might shed some light. The Victim did settle a civil suit and refused to cooperate with investigators henceforth.

 

[steelfrog]

I am not a flight guy but I believe early indications are the same type of thing happened to the plane crash in Lafayette carrying LSU's OC Steve Ensimger's daughter-in-law and others to the semi-final game. It was extremely foggy and they were advised not to fly and it sounds like the pilot was disoriented and crashed shortly after take off at a tremendous velocity?

First and foremost, extremely sad for all families involved in both crashes. No one deserves that! Just sad that more caution isn't taken in these circumstances.

Yes. VERY avoidable accident. In listening to the ATC recording, you can hear that every other fixed-wing aircraft in the area is IFR, and the controllers are talking to this pilot a lot, vectoring him around, noting with every communication that he's a "special VFR helicopter", telling him to follow certain highways and roads etc.

Pilot should not have taken off into these conditions to begin with. If he must have for whatever reason, should have been flying instruments.

 

[Shorty]

deleted

If you need a criminal conviction I guess you're right.

First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado. I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter. I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.

 

[Flip Frog]

If you need a criminal conviction I guess you're right.

Like I said I wasn’t there. However, false claims happen all the time.

Either way, I’ll mourn the loss of a legend, his 13 year old daughter, 2 of her friends and their parents and coach. I’m out this subject. You high and mighty folks can go back and pat yourselves on the back being contrarian.

 

[froginmn]

deleted

If you want people to show respect for the recently deceased, you'll want to start by showing respect for the living.

 

[YA]

Yes. VERY avoidable accident. In listening to the ATC recording, you can hear that every other fixed-wing aircraft in the area is IFR, and the controllers are talking to this pilot a lot, vectoring him around, noting with every communication that he's a "special VFR helicopter", telling him to follow certain highways and roads etc.

Pilot should not have taken off into these conditions to begin with. If he must have for whatever reason, should have been flying instruments.

What is weird was he was a helicopter flight instructor and of course was IFR rated.

 

[Sweat Equity]

Yes. VERY avoidable accident. In listening to the ATC recording, you can hear that every other fixed-wing aircraft in the area is IFR, and the controllers are talking to this pilot a lot, vectoring him around, noting with every communication that he's a "special VFR helicopter", telling him to follow certain highways and roads etc.

Pilot should not have taken off into these conditions to begin with. If he must have for whatever reason, should have been flying instruments.

Agree Re: not flying in the conditions at the time but (now granted I am only a rec fixed-wing pilot) no single-engine rotorcraft been certified in decades to fly IFR.

 

[Sweat Equity]

What is weird was he was a helicopter flight instructor and of course was IFR rated.

Like I said above, I do not believe single-engine rotorcraft are certified to fly IFR. IMC, (which is different), yes, but not IFR.

 

[AroundWorldFrog]

What is weird was he was a helicopter flight instructor and of course was IFR rated.

If true, surprised that he lost orientation IF that is what happened. When I took flight lessons, though I never became instrument rated, we did spatial disorientation lessons. Not that hard if you focus. Wonder if there was another issue.

 

[satis1103]

If true, surprised that he lost orientation IF that is what happened. When I took flight lessons, though I never became instrument rated, we did spatial disorientation lessons. Not that hard if you focus. Wonder if there was another issue.

Even the best pilot in the world can be undone when facing a challenge like spatial disorientation alongside a time crunch and too many inputs at once. He didn't have 30,000 feet of extra space to recover. It's like all of us know how to drive, but we still can make wrong decisions when faced with split-second determinations to make and up to 360 degrees of visual input. If anything, I wouldn't have flown in such weather, but then again I'm not a private pilot and I have no idea how much pressure they're under to get the journey done.

I do know this though.... Arguing about religion or unproven allegations of sexual misconduct in this time FEELS really inappropriate. And personally I wish people would stop. Nobody here would like it if they died and before mourning was finished, the conversation immediately went to the most controversial thing they'd ever done or their most personal beliefs.

 

[steelfrog]

Even the best pilot in the world can be undone when facing a challenge like spatial disorientation alongside a time crunch and too many inputs at once. He didn't have 30,000 feet of extra space to recover. It's like all of us know how to drive, but we still can make wrong decisions when faced with split-second determinations to make and up to 360 degrees of visual input. If anything, I wouldn't have flown in such weather, but then again I'm not a private pilot and I have no idea how much pressure they're under to get the journey done.

I am told by one of the lawyers that when he came blasting out of the bottom of the fog deck (there was clear air for a couple hundred feet above his crash site) he had 3 seconds to recover, which of course is not enough.

@YA yes when we talk about the dangerous mindsets one would be arrogance. Another would be a CRM issue (albeit one pilot) about boss on board, pressure to fly etc.

Regarding the S-76 and IFR rating, newer model S-76s are IFR rated. This aircraft was an older model, S-76B, but it underwent some sort of recertification in 2015 which likely included a panel upgrade. Appears to be only a single-engine model though, PT-6.

 

[AroundWorldFrog]

Even the best pilot in the world can be undone when facing a challenge like spatial disorientation alongside a time crunch and too many inputs at once. He didn't have 30,000 feet of extra space to recover. It's like all of us know how to drive, but we still can make wrong decisions when faced with split-second determinations to make and up to 360 degrees of visual input. If anything, I wouldn't have flown in such weather, but then again I'm not a private pilot and I have no idea how much pressure they're under to get the journey done.

I do know this though.... Arguing about religion or unproven allegations of sexual misconduct in this time FEELS really inappropriate. And personally I wish people would stop. Nobody here would like it if they died and before mourning was finished, the conversation immediately went to the most controversial thing they'd ever done or their most personal beliefs.

The pilot has to say no when he shouldn't fly. Lots of people would have a hard time saying no to someone like Kobe sadly.

 

[YA]

I had a family friend in the oil business that wanted to fly to the Florida coast for some fishing with his coworkers in October 1989. They were leaving from a private airfield outside Caddo Lake and it was fogged in and nighttime. Pilot said no and the family friend said yes. The other passengers saw the exchange and did not want to go. Family friend said everyone is going or you are fired. They left and hit the pine trees at end of runaway in the fog. All 5 died and the lawsuits commenced shortly afterwards. I knew everyone on board and was dating the daughter of the family friend at the time. Sad time that seems like yesterday.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/10/07/Five-die-in-light-plane-crash/6207623736000/

 

[frogs9497]

I am told by one of the lawyers that when he came blasting out of the bottom of the fog deck (there was clear air for a couple hundred feet above his crash site) he had 3 seconds to recover, which of course is not enough.

@YA yes when we talk about the dangerous mindsets one would be arrogance. Another would be a CRM issue (albeit one pilot) about boss on board, pressure to fly etc.

Regarding the S-76 and IFR rating, newer model S-76s are IFR rated. This aircraft was an older model, S-76B, but it underwent some sort of recertification in 2015 which likely included a panel upgrade. Appears to be only a single-engine model though, PT-6.

I read something earlier that quoted an aviation “expert” as saying that mechanical failure was unlikely, in large part because it was a twin engine copter.

 

[satis1103]

I read something earlier that quoted an aviation “expert” as saying that mechanical failure was unlikely, in large part because it was a twin engine copter.

Simultaneous, dual engine failure on any aircraft is rare, but there are a few exceptions like a fuel line problem or engine ingestion issue (a la Miracle on the Hudson). Unlikely but not impossible. Visibility seems more likely. NTSB will come to the correct conclusion, I have full faith in that.

 

[Sweat Equity]

I had a family friend in the oil business that wanted to fly to the Florida coast for some fishing with his coworkers in October 1989. They were leaving from a private airfield outside Caddo Lake and it was fogged in and nighttime. Pilot said no and the family friend said yes. The other passengers saw the exchange and did not want to go. Family friend said everyone is going or you are fired. They left and hit the pine trees at end of runaway in the fog. All 5 died and the lawsuits commenced shortly afterwards. I knew everyone on board and was dating the daughter of the family friend at the time. Sad time that seems like yesterday.

I am sorry to hear.

Much like the 2001 Aspen Crash. Not worth it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Avjet_Aspen_crash