Hoops Expectations

[Purp]

Purp-

I don't disagree with a lot of your post but there are a couple of things I'm wondering about.

When you say- "We should expect championship level goals."

What exactly are you referring to? Texas Tech was in the final game. Is that the threshold?

You also used Texas Tech as an example of a program being successful without any tradition,

I would agree that they are not Kentucky, UNC, or Kansas, but they did have the all-time winningest collegiate coach in history (at that time) coach there.

Their AD during that time was also an extremely well respected basketball guy. Former President of the NABC, etc.

We should have goals to win conference titles, conference tournaments, and NCAA tournaments. Same pyramid as CGP. If those aren't our aspirations we're doing it wrong.

And I used Tech bc they're the most recent and obvious example. Bobby Knight wasn't able to do in his tenure what Beard has done there in a very short time. Bobby Knight didn't create tradition there either. He was just an example of the university making a commitment to winning with a splash hire.

I'd argue the Bobby Knight era in Lubbuttock was comparable to the best eras in TCU basketball. They had success, but nothing you'd consider noteworthy.

My whole point is that the people citing our lack of tradition and sustained success as reasons to not expect us to compete for the highest honors in the sport seem to be ignoring examples we should expect to follow. We've committed to the sport financially with those very expectations.

 

[bp4tcu]

I expect the team to consistently finish in the 5-7th place in the league and maybe catch lightning in a bottle once or twice before JD bails for another school.

Fixed.

 

[Skip Jansen]

We should have goals to win conference titles, conference tournaments, and NCAA tournaments. Same pyramid as CGP. If those aren't our aspirations we're doing it wrong.

And I used Tech bc they're the most recent and obvious example. Bobby Knight wasn't able to do in his tenure what Beard has done there in a very short time. Bobby Knight didn't create tradition there either. He was just an example of the university making a commitment to winning with a splash hire.

I'd argue the Bobby Knight era in Lubbuttock was comparable to the best eras in TCU basketball. They had success, but nothing you'd consider noteworthy.

My whole point is that the people citing our lack of tradition and sustained success as reasons to not expect us to compete for the highest honors in the sport seem to be ignoring examples we should expect to follow. We've committed to the sport financially with those very expectations.

Purp-

I totally agree with you that the goals should be very high. I'm talking more about fan expectations.

Also, I see the financial commitment as leveling the playing field more than putting the Frogs over the top. Let's face it, all the competitors have nice facilities and highly paid coaches as well.

I appreciate your comments. This thread wasn't meant for everyone to agree in the first place.

 

[MTfrog5]

Academic issues, may be back by now.

LOL

 

[Purp]

Purp-

I totally agree with you that the goals should be very high. I'm talking more about fan expectations.

Also, I see the financial commitment as leveling the playing field more than putting the Frogs over the top. Let's face it, all the competitors have nice facilities and highly paid coaches as well.

I appreciate your comments. This thread wasn't meant for everyone to agree in the first place.

I guess that was my point. my expectations are aligned with what I think our goals should be.

I also agree that the financial investment merely brings us up to par with most of the great programs we want to overtake. Didn't mean to imply it sets us apart from them. But once we join that group in terms of commitment to winning our expectations should also join them, IMO.

I don't think it's good enough to throw up our hands and say, "well we've always sucked so it's okay if we only show marginal improvement." Darn that noise. I want championship basketball and we have no excuses to not compete for it.

 

[Skip Jansen]

I guess that was my point. my expectations are aligned with what I think our goals should be.

I also agree that the financial investment merely brings us up to par with most of the great programs we want to overtake. Didn't mean to imply it sets us apart from them. But once we join that group in terms of commitment to winning our expectations should also join them, IMO.

I don't think it's good enough to throw up our hands and say, "well we've always sucked so it's okay if we only show marginal improvement." Darn that noise. I want championship basketball and we have no excuses to not compete for it.

I agree with that. I think the current staff has similar goals and expectations.

I said it before, but I truly believe the current freshman class is the foundation of a championship type team.

Obviously, recruiting is the key. And, I don't see any reason why that should fall off.

 

[Boomhauer]

I agree with that. I think the current staff has similar goals and expectations.

I said it before, but I truly believe the current freshman class is the foundation of a championship type team.

Obviously, recruiting is the key. And, I don't see any reason why that should fall off.

Hoping we keep this freshman class far away from the transfer portal.

 

[Rabidfrog]

Tie for third in conference, get bid to big dance.

 

[Wog68]

The last Indiana star we had before Bane

Great PG

Was Jacobs before or after Lee Nailon who was from NW Indiana?

 

[Salfrog]

Jacobs graduated the year before Nailon arrived.

 

[Prince of Purpoole]

Fixed.

Whatever

 

[YA]

Was Jacobs before or after Lee Nailon who was from NW Indiana?

Jacobs was before and yes forgot Nailon was from Indiana.

 

[JogginFrog]

KenPom gets a lot of abuse on this board, dating from the time when some of us viewed progress as moving from 250th (and last in Big 12) to 100th (and still last in Big 12). But I still find it a useful metric when the conference is as strong as it's been the last couple of years. If TCU is consistently in the top 50, and finishes in the top 35 in two of every five years, the program has achieved sustainability, even if paired with finishes of 8th-10th in conference. (Frogs are currently 57th.)

I expect TCU to have a program that is well-versed in efficiency analytics and runs schemes and lineups designed to maximize efficiency, especially on defense. It's a new era in basketball, and the data are there to understand how to reduce risk and increase opportunity. (Frogs are currently 30th in AdjD; 107th in AdjO.)

I expect TCU to compete for top recruits in Texas that intend to earn a degree, and to develop a reputation for graduating all players who stay for 4 years. I think that's an identity that will pay off when it's difficult to distinguish yourself among a bunch of top-flight programs.

I expect TCU to stay within 15 points of Tech for at least 20 minutes of basketball.

I expect TCU to average 6,500 in home attendance every year (2018: 6,561).

 

[wilson912]

KenPom gets a lot of abuse on this board, dating from the time when some of us viewed progress as moving from 250th (and last in Big 12) to 100th (and still last in Big 12). But I still find it a useful metric when the conference is as strong as it's been the last couple of years. If TCU is consistently in the top 50, and finishes in the top 35 in two of every five years, the program has achieved sustainability, even if paired with finishes of 8th-10th in conference. (Frogs are currently 57th.)

I expect TCU to have a program that is well-versed in efficiency analytics and runs schemes and lineups designed to maximize efficiency, especially on defense. It's a new era in basketball, and the data are there to understand how to reduce risk and increase opportunity. (Frogs are currently 30th in AdjD; 107th in AdjO.)

I expect TCU to compete for top recruits in Texas that intend to earn a degree, and to develop a reputation for graduating all players who stay for 4 years. I think that's an identity that will pay off when it's difficult to distinguish yourself among a bunch of top-flight programs.

I expect TCU to stay within 15 points of Tech for at least 20 minutes of basketball.

I expect TCU to average 6,500 in home attendance every year (2018: 6,561).

genius

 

[Horned Toad]

Farm-

That's a good question. Programs that don't have much tradition or history usually need some sort of spark to excite the fan base.

What do you think would make TCU basketball a must see program?

-Does the TCU coach need to be a P.T. Barnum type?

-Does TCU need to sign a 'name' or 'local legend' recruit?

-Does TCU just need to string together some consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances and win a few games?

What would do it?

I'm talking about the fan on the peripheral. I know you are gonna be there regardless.

Skip in my opinion, and it may be obvious, it is winning those big home games. Back in the 80’s with Killer’s teams and those guys pulling off some big wins, they made fans for life out of those games, me included. More recently, I can recall a handful of games that we got a great crowd in the Scholl and the student section was packed and the crowd was electric and really into the game... and we blow it. The letdown on attendance at the next game is obvious and we don’t recover fanwise until maybe the next big game the next year. If the students get into the game their energy feeds the rest of the fans. The students have to be rewarded for their commitment and effort with a win. I hate saying to myself afterwards, man if we would have pulled this game off we would have made some fans for life. Again, this may be obvious, but that’s how you grow a team from a fan perspective.