FWST: TCU’s Patterson wants to see faster starts, more physical play by Frogs

[tcumaniac]

I'd be fascinated to hear what Duggan's dad thinks of the way our offense has been managed and coached up to this point.

 

[CountryFrog]

If the coaches truly intend to let Delton have a few series then it's safe to assume he's at least taking up some of the first team practice reps.

Outside of maybe the occasional gimmick play, Delton shouldn't see the field again this season unless Duggan and Collins both get hurt.

You seem to be creating your own narrative here. Who has said that Delton will get a "few series?" Furthermore if Gary actually did say that I wouldn't believe him because Delton hasn't gotten "a few series" since UAPB besides some garbage time against Kansas.

As I said above, if you're watching the games, it's crystal clear that the coaches are 100% in with Max. He's taken almost every meaningful snap since Purdue.

 

[CountryFrog]

I'd be fascinated to hear what Duggan's dad thinks of the way our offense has been managed and coached up to this point.

I'm sure you're the one he'll come to for a great discussion on that topic

 

[Wexahu]

You seem to be creating your own narrative here. Who has said that Delton will get a "few series?" Furthermore if Gary actually did say that I wouldn't believe him because Delton hasn't gotten "a few series" since UAPB besides some garbage time against Kansas.

As I said above, if you're watching the games, it's crystal clear that the coaches are 100% in with Max. He's taken almost every meaningful snap since Purdue.

I don't doubt they are 100% in on Max, but they don't manage games like it. Pulling him for Delton in the first half of the Kansas game was an idiotic move IMO. He was playing well and was in rhythm and playing with some confidence and it was a perfect opportunity for Duggan to stay in there and get more experience, try some new things within the offense, and continue to gain more confidence in a situation where a mistake wasn't going to kill us. Confidence breeds confidence. Instead we pull him to give Delton his couple of series and when Max went back in he wasn't quite as good the rest of the game. Just a terrible way to handle the situation IMO.

 

[BrewingFrog]

I don't doubt they are 100% in on Max, but they don't manage games like it. Pulling him for Delton in the first half of the Kansas game was an idiotic move IMO. He was playing well and was in rhythm and playing with some confidence and it was a perfect opportunity for Duggan to stay in there and get more experience, try some new things within the offense, and continue to gain more confidence in a situation where a mistake wasn't going to kill us. Confidence breeds confidence. Instead we pull him to give Delton his couple of series and when Max went back in he wasn't quite as good the rest of the game. Just a terrible way to handle the situation IMO.

I'm stunned. I "liked" a Wex post...

Correct on all counts. Max was doing just fine. It wasn't broke, yet, they decided to try and fix it. A Freshman QB will undoubtedly have confidence issues. To bench him while he was doing well does nothing but cause him self-doubt. "What did I do wrong?"

Even if the move was made to let Sonny try and deliver some finer points on how to hold the ball whilst throwing, it served to screw up Max's rhythm and the team's timing. If the move was made to, as I suspect, let Max know he's on a really, really short leash, then it is pure manipulative stupidity.

 

[CountryFrog]

I don't doubt they are 100% in on Max, but they don't manage games like it. Pulling him for Delton in the first half of the Kansas game was an idiotic move IMO. He was playing well and was in rhythm and playing with some confidence and it was a perfect opportunity for Duggan to stay in there and get more experience, try some new things within the offense, and continue to gain more confidence in a situation where a mistake wasn't going to kill us. Confidence breeds confidence. Instead we pull him to give Delton his couple of series and when Max went back in he wasn't quite as good the rest of the game. Just a terrible way to handle the situation IMO.

I'm sure 4 or 5 more throws against Kansas are exactly what Max needed to take the next step in his development.

There are plenty of actual things that we can criticize the coaches for without creating things that don't actually exist or are totally meaningless.

 

[Wexahu]

I'm stunned. I "liked" a Wex post...

Correct on all counts. Max was doing just fine. It wasn't broke, yet, they decided to try and fix it. A Freshman QB will undoubtedly have confidence issues. To bench him while he was doing well does nothing but cause him self-doubt. "What did I do wrong?"

Even if the move was made to let Sonny try and deliver some finer points on how to hold the ball whilst throwing, it served to screw up Max's rhythm and the team's timing. If the move was made to, as I suspect, let Max know he's on a really, really short leash, then it is pure manipulative stupidity.

I think the move was made because they feel obligated to give Delton some PT, and they feel that if they wait and do it in 4th quarter mop-up time it will be a slap in the face to Delton. I don't think the decision really had anything to do with Duggan at all, that's why I said that GP's admiration for Delton is just getting in the way at this point, decisions are being made to cater to a guy that just really isn't all that important to the future of TCU football.

 

[CountryFrog]

I'm stunned. I "liked" a Wex post...

Correct on all counts. Max was doing just fine. It wasn't broke, yet, they decided to try and fix it. A Freshman QB will undoubtedly have confidence issues. To bench him while he was doing well does nothing but cause him self-doubt. "What did I do wrong?"

Even if the move was made to let Sonny try and deliver some finer points on how to hold the ball whilst throwing, it served to screw up Max's rhythm and the team's timing. If the move was made to, as I suspect, let Max know he's on a really, really short leash, then it is pure manipulative stupidity.

He wasn't "benched." He was removed from the game for a few plays with a 35 point lead.

 

[tetonfrog]

I'd be fascinated to hear what Duggan's dad thinks of the way our offense has been managed and coached up to this point.

Double standard here.

You and others were all over Robinson's "helicopter parents" and now you want to hear how Max's dad feels? The last thing we need is how our frosh QB's dad thinks about anything. That would be another classic ST hit job.

Dumb post.

 

[Wexahu]

I'm sure 4 or 5 more throws against Kansas are exactly what Max needed to take the next step in his development.

There are plenty of actual things that we can criticize the coaches for without creating things that don't actually exist or are totally meaningless.

I knew you would weigh in. For years backups hardly ever got any meaningful time in our games, now all the sudden it's important to get a 5th-year transfer his touches. I suppose it doesn't matter a whole lot, but it makes no sense, and our coaching staff is paid a hell of a lot of money to make sense.

 

[CountryFrog]

We came out of camp with TWO healthy and ready to play scholarship QBs. I have no idea why it's surprising to anyone that those are the two guys who have been at the top of the depth chart to this point.

 

[CountryFrog]

I knew you would weigh in. For years backups hardly ever got any meaningful time in our games, now all the sudden it's important to get a 5th-year transfer his touches. I suppose it doesn't matter a whole lot, but it makes no sense, and our coaching staff is paid a hell of a lot of money to make sense.

So you admit that it doesn't matter a whole lot. Thanks

 

[cheese83]

I knew you would weigh in. For years backups hardly ever got any meaningful time in our games, now all the sudden it's important to get a 5th-year transfer his touches. I suppose it doesn't matter a whole lot, but it makes no sense, and our coaching staff is paid a hell of a lot of money to make sense.

The only reason we should be giving him snaps is if we were undefeated and were blowing teams out. Like you said Duggan should not be pulled at this point now.

Sure we have only lost one conference game so "technically" the season isn't over yet but even coming out and saying Delton will play is ridiculous. K St knows who Delton is and game planning for him wouldn't be that tough. My guess is Patterson is probably telling Cumbie to bring him in on some red zone situations and run RPOs. Our team just seems so dysfunctional at this point, almost like it's being managed horribly.

 

[CountryFrog]

The only reason we should be giving him snaps is if we were undefeated and were blowing teams out. Like you said Duggan should not be pulled at this point now.

Sure we have only lost one conference game so "technically" the season isn't over yet but even coming out and saying Delton will play is ridiculous. K St knows who Delton is and game planning for him wouldn't be that tough. My guess is Patterson is probably telling Cumbie to bring him in on some red zone situations and run RPOs. Our team just seems so dysfunctional at this point, almost like it's being managed horribly.

Remember when Patterson said that he expects Waymon James to play?

Why are people still acting like anything Gary says to the press actually means something?

 

[geezer]

GP needs to ask the band director to play some loud music anytime Delton comes out on the field...to drown out the laughter from the K-State players.

 

[Mean Purple]

Whoever is playing best, start him and leave him in and let him do his thing.

And that means the QB who has drives that end in touchdowns.

Locker room leadership does not help if it is not carrying over on the field more.

And it should not be based on going back to from where one played previously.

If the pick is for the right reasons and SC is doing based what he wants to scheme and is allowed to go the tempo he wants, all should be fine.

GP needs to stay focused on the defense and hope it can play strong even when TCU does not get 40 min TOP.

And if it is all SC's plan and pick, and it goes south, then GP shod step in.

And they can flip a coin to see who does the post game press.

All that to say, [Baylor asshoe].

 

[Eight]

I'm sure 4 or 5 more throws against Kansas are exactly what Max needed to take the next step in his development.

There are plenty of actual things that we can criticize the coaches for without creating things that don't actually exist or are totally meaningless.

hard to say from either a mechanical or psychological perspective.

physically, we are talking about learning through repetition and while it might have only been a couple of series who knows where that falls within the required number of reps needed by max to hit that tipping point where he makes those faster progressions, he sees the other side of the field, finds those other options in the passing game.

the bigger concern is the disruption of max putting together a big game. i understand individual numbers are not a primary focus in gary's program, but at certain positions those numbers can play a big factor in building confidence.

the entire thought process this year has been really one of throttling the offense back and not opening things up, the offense early on was built around the skillset of delton, and they have yet to truly turn max loose .


it is gary's prerogative as he is the head coach, but as i said before it is ironic the offense restricts the play of the freshman quarterback to try to avoid turnovers when defensively we have continually seen young players thrown into positions they weren't ready, asked to do things they were prepared for on defense, and gary saying that was his mistake.

 

[CountryFrog]

hard to say from either a mechanical or psychological perspective.

physically, we are talking about learning through repetition and while it might have only been a couple of series who knows where that falls within the required number of reps needed by max to hit that tipping point where he makes those faster progressions, he sees the other side of the field, finds those other options in the passing game.

the bigger concern is the disruption of max putting together a big game. i understand individual numbers are not a primary focus in gary's program, but at certain positions those numbers can play a big factor in building confidence.

the entire thought process this year has been really one of throttling the offense back and not opening things up, the offense early on was built around the skillset of delton, and they have yet to truly turn max loose .


it is gary's prerogative as he is the head coach, but as i said before it is ironic the offense restricts the play of the freshman quarterback to try to avoid turnovers when defensively we have continually seen young players thrown into positions they weren't ready, asked to do things they were prepared for on defense, and gary saying that was his mistake.

Plenty of legitimate things to wonder about in regards to the offense and defense, no doubt.

There just seems to be a want by some people in this thread to create a QB controversy within the staff that doesn't actually exist. Regardless of whether or not we all agree with taking Max out for a few plays against Kansas, the fact is that the game was decided, and isn't evidence that there is any wavering from Max within the staff.

Max has gotten almost 100% of the MEANINGFUL reps since Purdue and there's no reason to believe that will change based on an inference that Maniac made from a random GP quote in a newspaper article. That was really where all this started.

 

[Eight]

Plenty of legitimate things to wonder about in regards to the offense and defense, no doubt.

There just seems to be a want by some people in this thread to create a QB controversy within the staff that doesn't actually exist. Regardless of whether or not we all agree with taking Max out for a few plays against Kansas, the fact is that the game was decided, and isn't evidence that there is any wavering from Max within the staff.

Max has gotten almost 100% of the MEANINGFUL reps since Purdue and there's no reason to believe that will change based on an inference that Maniac made from a random GP quote in a newspaper article. That was really where all this started.

i agree in large part, but i do agree that gary has had this focus on alex delton unlike any offensive player i can recall in quite some time.

gary goes out of his way to point out he is a team captain, the offense was styled to fit his abilities, and gary has seemed to take a shine to his abilities that we didn't even see from the kansas state offensive staff under snyder.

i am not sure if it is baggage from the way things played out last year or not, but for some reason gary has spoken more positive about delton publicly than any other offensive player which is a big bizarre and akward.

 

[CountryFrog]

i agree in large part, but i do agree that gary has had this focus on alex delton unlike any offensive player i can recall in quite some time.

gary goes out of his way to point out he is a team captain, the offense was styled to fit his abilities, and gary has seemed to take a shine to his abilities that we didn't even see from the kansas state offensive staff under snyder.

i am not sure if it is baggage from the way things played out last year or not, but for some reason gary has spoken more positive about delton publicly than any other offensive player which is a big bizarre and akward.

Gary clearly loves Delton. I just don't gleen much from what Gary has to say about anything. Fact is, Delton has barely played any real meaningful time so Gary's words are just that. Words. Plus, the media asks a lot of questions about Delton, so to a certain degree this is simply Gary answering questions that are asked of him. It's not like Gary is going into every press conference saying "all right everyone, let's all stop what we're doing and talk about Alex for the next few minutes."

And who knows if Delton would even have played as much as he has so far if Collins and/or Baldwin hadn't been injured for so long.