FWST: TCU’s Patterson is ‘not OK’ with growing pains of young QB. So how will the Frogs adjust?

[Eight]

Is the way Gary runs his defense and the complicated schemes passé? Seems like any balanced offense shreds it anymore. Since it's his legacy contribution to football, is he too stubborn to change?

good question and a friend raised another question i had not thought about concerning the defense.

in cusa and mwc the frogs not only had a schematic advantage with the defense, but had an incredible ability recognize and respond with gary and bumpas calling signals independently of each other as well as were more physically talented than many of the frogs opponents.

the combo of gary and bumpas calling signals to the secondary and defensive front independently yet being synced in how they approached attacking defenses allowed the frogs to adjust quickly to opposing defenses, but do so in a fairly seamless matter.

gary really only had to focus on the calls in respect to the back five because he knew bumpas had the calls to the front wired.

the defense just hasn't had they same ability since bumpas retired and we see how man times gary will be late getting a call in and the defense gets caught in a shift or iisn't able to move and recognize the offensive formation.

additionally, the talent has gone up on the tcu defense, but the talent gap is inverse to cusa and mwc.

yes, the frogs faced some good offenses, but not with the level of physical talent they see weekly in the big 12.

i am curious if the frogs are asking players to do things that their peers could do in the old conferences, but there just is no way that is going to happen in the big 12.

additionally, tcu was one of the deep pocket programs in those conferences and their opponents didn't have a staff of analyst breaking down film and recognizing patterns.

 

[Raw Frog]

Seems like they ran right at Mathis almost every time, and he obliged them by doing whatever he had to in order to take himself out of the play. I had never seen a worse performance.

 

[PurpleBlood87]

Because the head coach wants to run a slow, ball-control offense. The 82-27 days are long gone.

But welcome to the 27-82 days.

 

[y2kFrog]

The D helped us win games with a tepid O even last year.

We would have gone at least 8-4 last year with better QB play not just 6-6.

 

[Eight]

We would have gone at least 8-4 last year with better QB play not just 6-6.

not saying much when you consider a quarterback who basically hadn't played since high school "lead" the come back at baylor and won the game that got the frogs in a bowl.

 

[Chew]

Remember when Andy came up. Patterson in those days, don't throw interceptions, make sure the receiver is ready and your technique is correct. I understand that, but when you stand back there 4-5-6- seconds, ready for everything to fall into place the defense reads your eyes and that gives the entire defense time to read your social security card. It's good and bad! Why not practice the procedure over and over again until you don't have wait, hope and hunt? Break away from timed practice sequences once in a while and be flexible.

Oh, I remember. I was there with Andy, and all the other QBs and TEs on the roster, for the entire 2006 football season. Two-a-days through the poinsettia bowl.

If I remember correctly Andy didn’t play his true freshman year. We all know Coach P likes to talk about Andy and how he used to pull him when he would make bad Andy decisions that lead to interceptions, right?

Well this situation is different because you have a true freshman QB who is playing some solid middle tier football in my opinion and whose OC and HC aren’t really helping him till the second half. He has strengths and weaknesses just like every player to ever step on the field. He can run the up tempo offense much better than RPO ball control that’s being asked of him in the first half of these games. So again, why not play to that strength?

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, Max has thrown 113 times this year with no Ints. Sure that’s likely to change but it seems like he’s done a pretty good job so far protecting the ball when passing. Said that to say this, he can rush his throws or stand in the pocket for 4-5 seconds and try to pick the best option on the field. I’d much prefer the latter.

As a head coach, and the leader of this program, Gary has all the say in what happens right? The buck stops here and all that. So know your personnel, if your best option at QB, or who you are going to let Sonny ride with, is a freshman then play to his strengths. Make the games as easy as they can be until he demonstrates in a more controlled environment that he’s capable of running the offense you would prefer as the head coach.

 

[Mean Purple]

Turned the ball over several times..... the hell????

There was a fumble on Saturday. But, heck, he should not have been attempting a pass there. The Coaches should have had only a run play there.

 

[jake102]

I don’t think Moose and Wex are really that far apart.... agree with both

 

[WhiteHispanicFrog]

Oh, I remember. I was there with Andy, and all the other QBs and TEs on the roster, for the entire 2006 football season. Two-a-days through the poinsettia bowl.

If I remember correctly Andy didn’t play his true freshman year. We all know Coach P likes to talk about Andy and how he used to pull him when he would make bad Andy decisions that lead to interceptions, right?

Well this situation is different because you have a true freshman QB who is playing some solid middle tier football in my opinion and whose OC and HC aren’t really helping him till the second half. He has strengths and weaknesses just like every player to ever step on the field. He can run the up tempo offense much better than RPO ball control that’s being asked of him in the first half of these games. So again, why not play to that strength?

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, Max has thrown 113 times this year with no Ints. Sure that’s likely to change but it seems like he’s done a pretty good job so far protecting the ball when passing. Said that to say this, he can rush his throws or stand in the pocket for 4-5 seconds and try to pick the best option on the field. I’d much prefer the latter.

As a head coach, and the leader of this program, Gary has all the say in what happens right? The buck stops here and all that. So know your personnel, if your best option at QB, or who you are going to let Sonny ride with, is a freshman then play to his strengths. Make the games as easy as they can be until he demonstrates in a more controlled environment that he’s capable of running the offense you would prefer as the head coach.

 

[y2kFrog]

not saying much when you consider a quarterback who basically hadn't played since high school "lead" the come back at baylor and won the game that got the frogs in a bowl.

Which shows how incompetent our QB play was at times last year.

 

[Froggish]

Absolutely, and I'm to the point where I have trouble blaming Cumbie because I think he's operating with one arm tied behind his back. Don't know if he's any good or not but I'm not sure we'll ever know unless GP lets him do things his way, which I doubt he is right now.

I don’t get the line of thinking that Cumbie is somehow really good but we haven’t been able to tell because he can’t run “his” offense....I know the spread isn’t his dream scenario of an offense, nor is he operating from his air raid wheelhouse, but Cumbie isn’t even attacking defenses in the most fundamental of ways. Placing a true freshman QB in empty backfield sets, Running wild frog passes, throwing constant fades to 5’-9 WRs, and seemingly letting DC after DC out scheme him without making any adjustments are inexcusably incompetent. Cumbie isn’t just operating out of his comfort zone with the spread..he seems to be operating outside his comfort zone all the time..

I don’t for a minute believe allowing SC to go full Leach would even come close to working because he can’t read a defense of call a play any better then the QBs he’s trying to coach...That’s the most fundamental problem with this football team

 

[CountryFrog]

I don’t think Moose and Wex are really that far apart.... agree with both

At the highest level, I think we're all on the same page. This season sucks so far.

 

[y2kFrog]

I don’t get the line of thinking that Cumbie is somehow really good but we haven’t been able to tell because he can’t run “his” offense....I know the spread isn’t his dream scenario of an offense, nor is he operating from his air raid wheelhouse, but Cumbie isn’t even attacking defenses in the most fundamental of ways. Placing a true freshman QB in empty backfield sets, Running wild frog passes, throwing constant fades to 5’-9 WRs, and seemingly letting DC after DC out scheme him without making any adjustments are inexcusably incompetent. Cumbie isn’t just operating out of his comfort zone with the spread..he seems to be operating outside his comfort zone all the time..

I don’t for a minute believe allowing SC to go full Leach would even come close to working because he can’t read a defense of call a play any better then the QBs he’s trying to coach...That’s the most fundamental problem with this football team

We look fine when the coaches get out of the way. As soon as the offense looks to the sideline, it turns into a comedy of errors.

 

[Wexahu]

I don’t get the line of thinking that Cumbie is somehow really good but we haven’t been able to tell because he can’t run “his” offense....I know the spread isn’t his dream scenario of an offense, nor is he operating from his air raid wheelhouse, but Cumbie isn’t even attacking defenses in the most fundamental of ways. Placing a true freshman QB in empty backfield sets, Running wild frog passes, throwing constant fades to 5’-9 WRs, and seemingly letting DC after DC out scheme him without making any adjustments are inexcusably incompetent. Cumbie isn’t just operating out of his comfort zone with the spread..he seems to be operating outside his comfort zone all the time..

I don’t for a minute believe allowing SC to go full Leach would even come close to working because he can’t read a defense of call a play any better then the QBs he’s trying to coach...That’s the most fundamental problem with this football team

If that is the case it’s on GP. He’s seen him operate for 5 years now, if he’s not capable of coaching at this level, a change should’ve happened years ago. But I don’t think there’s much doubt there’s GP’s input in the offense is counterproductive. They rarely seem on the same page.

 

[Froggish]

If that is the case it’s on GP. He’s seen him operate for 5 years now, if he’s not capable of coaching at this level, a change should’ve happened years ago. But I don’t think there’s much doubt there’s GP’s input in the offense is counterproductive. They rarely seem on the same page.

That we can agree on.....GP should have never given Cumbie the job when he got cross with Meachum. I admittedly was not a Meachum fan either but to fire the play caller for his partner who had never called a college game before was a ridiculous move by GP

 

[More Frogs the Better]

I don’t get the line of thinking that Cumbie is somehow really good but we haven’t been able to tell because he can’t run “his” offense....I know the spread isn’t his dream scenario of an offense, nor is he operating from his air raid wheelhouse, but Cumbie isn’t even attacking defenses in the most fundamental of ways. Placing a true freshman QB in empty backfield sets, Running wild frog passes, throwing constant fades to 5’-9 WRs, and seemingly letting DC after DC out scheme him without making any adjustments are inexcusably incompetent. Cumbie isn’t just operating out of his comfort zone with the spread..he seems to be operating outside his comfort zone all the time..

I don’t for a minute believe allowing SC to go full Leach would even come close to working because he can’t read a defense of call a play any better then the QBs he’s trying to coach...That’s the most fundamental problem with this football team

I can believe that what he's doing may work better going fast because the QB is comfortable with that and it gives the defense less time to adjust but my sentiment is more along the lines of what you're saying. The fact that we've had one QB after another struggle to understand what they are seeing from the defense, receivers that are not in space creating some uncontested throws, complete mismanagement of the red-zone, attempts to rely on gimmick plays that blow up in our face, and it just on and on with no changes, has caused me to conclude that SC is just not capable of being a good OC. Going faster might mask some weaknesses but it's still going to be the same offense that is miles behind the scheme and route concepts of what the elite OC's are doing--especially the guy in Norman that is writing the book right now on how create an offense that overwhelms defenses while giving the QB easy reads.

 

[PO Frog]

I don’t get the line of thinking that Cumbie is somehow really good but we haven’t been able to tell because he can’t run “his” offense....I know the spread isn’t his dream scenario of an offense, nor is he operating from his air raid wheelhouse, but Cumbie isn’t even attacking defenses in the most fundamental of ways. Placing a true freshman QB in empty backfield sets, Running wild frog passes, throwing constant fades to 5’-9 WRs, and seemingly letting DC after DC out scheme him without making any adjustments are inexcusably incompetent. Cumbie isn’t just operating out of his comfort zone with the spread..he seems to be operating outside his comfort zone all the time..

I don’t for a minute believe allowing SC to go full Leach would even come close to working because he can’t read a defense of call a play any better then the QBs he’s trying to coach...That’s the most fundamental problem with this football team

I lean in this direction as well but would like to know for certain and let him loose for the rest of the year. We aren’t hiring midseason anyways so we may as well experiment.
Have to agree with the thought that we do a lot of things that you just shouldn’t be doing whether or not you’re getting to run at the speed you want. And I hate the fact that we can’t execute a simple throw and catch for extended periods of time. Our execution sucks and that’s on OC. The dropped passes is a major issue for me and it’s been 4 seasons now, although it seems to have improved the last couple of weeks.

 

[Horny4TCU]

all I read was blah blah blah FIRE CUMBIE.

 

[Wexahu]

I lean in this direction as well but would like to know for certain and let him loose for the rest of the year. We aren’t hiring midseason anyways so we may as well experiment.
Have to agree with the thought that we do a lot of things that you just shouldn’t be doing whether or not you’re getting to run at the speed you want. And I hate the fact that we can’t execute a simple throw and catch for extended periods of time. Our execution sucks and that’s on OC. The dropped passes is a major issue for me and it’s been 4 seasons now, although it seems to have improved the last couple of weeks.

Yep. Over the course of a game, if you’re mixing up plays, routes and looks properly there should be at least 8-10 easy throw and catch situations. We make everything look so damn hard.

 

[Chongo94]

We make everything look so damn hard.

I think this sums up everything about our teams the last few years.