• The KillerFrogs

FWST: TCU athletic director ‘really nervous’ about California’s new Fair Pay to Play Act

CountryFrog

Active Member
How are the players not the asset? You can interchange players but if you replace good ones with bad ones, nobody is going to watch that. If that's the case, why isn't the fcs more popular?
Why is D1 football popular as it is? There is already that thing called the NFL and that's where the actual top talent is. If people were ONLY interested in watching the very best of the best then why are there as many people at a Florida Gators game most weeks as the combined attendance at the 3 NFL teams in that state?
 

Eight

Member
Why is D1 football popular as it is? There is already that thing called the NFL and that's where the actual top talent is. If people were ONLY interested in watching the very best of the best then why are there as many people at a Florida Gators game most weeks as the combined attendance at the 3 NFL teams in that state?

you are using attendance as the barometer of how popular a sport is to their fan base?

go look at the top 50 watched sporting events last year and notice which sport dominates in the us and it isn't freaking close.

the super bowl doubles if not more the cfp as well as the play off games double the cfp

heck the regular season nfl broadcast surpass the cfp play off games and don't even get started on the regular season college broad casts.

do we even want to compare nba with college basketball outside the tournament?
 

CountryFrog

Active Member
you are using attendance as the barometer of how popular a sport is to their fan base?

go look at the top 50 watched sporting events last year and notice which sport dominates in the us and it isn't freaking close.

the super bowl doubles if not more the cfp as well as the play off games double the cfp

heck the regular season nfl broadcast surpass the cfp play off games and don't even get started on the regular season college broad casts.

do we even want to compare nba with college basketball outside the tournament?
I'm not attempting to say that because attendance is higher then that means popularity is higher. Just making the point that the popularity is very high even though it's still behind the NFL. You can't deny that.

As far as basketball goes, the college game has kind of become a one trick pony with the NCAA tournament for the vast majority of the country. This is really all about football though. That's the driver for everything, even though there is revenue in men's basketball.
 

TX_Krötenechse

Active Member
Here's how I think this will play out:
The AD at Ohio state has already said they would not play any California teams. I'm sure he already spoke with other B1G ADs and the commissioner and probably speaks for the conference. If the ADs of the ACC, B12 and SEC would step up and say they're not playing California teams either, then perfection just happened.
1. CFP: PAC ineligible, the four remaining conference champs play off.
2. Bowls: PAC ineligible. More for everyone else.
3. Since conference champions go to the CFP, OOC doesn't matter. Teams will schedule other good teams because those games make more money and generate more fan interest. A loss doesn't disqualify you from the CFP.

Nobody watches the PAC, everyone else is already asleep. Nobody wants to play them three time zones away with all the extra expense. They can play Mountain West teams OOC, have a championship game and a few bowls. Good riddance.
Pray this happens.
Pennsylvania already working on similar legislation. Probably other states too that I haven’t heard about. Going to be hard for the B1G to stop scheduling teams from Pennsylvania ...
 

Horned Toad

Active Member
with football the name on the jersey might matter, but that hasn't been the case with basketball.

you have kids coming into college basketball who are damn near their own brands with their on line followings which is why we see the influence of the shoe money down in the aau programs.

i would go as far as saying without the pseudo gambling aspect the ncaa basketball tournament wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is now because of the number of people who follow the tournament because of their brackets and really don't follow teams.

very similar to what we have seen with the nfl and fantasy football.

in regards to this being a pro sports issue i don't agree at all.

the nba doesn't get paid one penny if the kids at duke wear nike shoes and jerseys but the school and the coach k does and if a kid doesn't want to wear nike he needs to go play elsewhere. that isn't an nba problem.

the nfl isn't the charging how much each year for having a box or 4 club seats.

the only kids on a college campus who are on scholarship who can't hold a job during their time at school are athletes and yet athletes are the ones who generate the greatest amount of revenue back to the school?

how is that an nfl, nba, mlb, etc.. issue?
Athletes in the revenue sports do have a job, playing the sport they were recruited for. Their pay is tuition, room and board, stipend, medical, strength and conditioning, meal plan. That is probably more income value than what some non-athlete is getting waiting tables at a restaurant trying to make his next tuition payment. The point is athletes are getting paid already.
 

Eight

Member
Athletes in the revenue sports do have a job, playing the sport they were recruited for. Their pay is tuition, room and board, stipend, medical, strength and conditioning, meal plan. That is probably more income value than what some non-athlete is getting waiting tables at a restaurant trying to make his next tuition payment. The point is athletes are getting paid already.

once again, i have never said pay the athletes during this discussion.

simply allow them the same right you are granting the school and the coaches in outside income .

gary and jamie get paid by the school and are paid quite well. yet they are allowed to be paid additional income from the shoe companies, from various sponsors etc... yet a college athlete can not have a side form of income

our youngest daughter was on multiple academic scholarships studying accounting and it was perfectly okay for her to use the skills she learned to do side jobs doing book keeping for some local businesses and on her resume was that she was an accounting student at her school.

an art student on scholarship can sell their work for money, but a tennis player can't get paid for teaching tennis lessons.

college athletes are singled out in a way no other student on scholarship is singled out simply because of what might happen. our kids have had friends who were on so much scholarship money to some schools they were banking money and yet the school did not impose restrictions on what they could or could not due with the skills they learned at the school.
 
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Horned Toad

Active Member
once again, i have never said pay the athletes during this discussion.

simply allow them the say right you are granting the school and the coaches in outside income .

gary and jamie get paid by the school and are paid quite well. yet they are allowed to be paid additional income from the shoe companies, from various sponsors etc... yet a college athlete can not have a side form of income

our youngest daughter was on multiple academic scholarships studying accounting and it was perfectly okay for her to use the skills she learned to do side jobs doing book keeping for some local businesses and on her resume was that she was an accounting student at her school.

an art student on scholarship can sell their work for money, but a tennis player can't get paid for teaching tennis lessons.

college athletes are singled out in a way no other student on scholarship is singled out simply because of what might happen. our kids have had friends who were on so much scholarship money to some schools they were banking money and yet the school did not impose restrictions on what they could or could not due with the skills they learned at the school.
I see your point but I would argue that college students giving someone a tennis lesson, interning in some company’s accounting department, or selling a painting requires work, same with waiting on tables or working in a grocery store, etc. Signing an autograph doesn’t require much effort and is not really work, it’s pay for having some celebrity affiliation with the local college team. And again, they are getting paid already just not directly in cash.
 

Eight

Member
I see your point but I would argue that college students giving someone a tennis lesson, interning in some company’s accounting department, or selling a painting requires work, same with waiting on tables or working in a grocery store, etc. Signing an autograph doesn’t require much effort and is not really work, it’s pay for having some celebrity affiliation with the local college team. And again, they are getting paid already just not directly in cash.

so you believe that there should be a correlation between the degree of effort put into the job, the level of competency, and the money paid

fair enough, but lets go back to my example of david beaty who after going 2-22 at kansas was given an extension that paid him for 5 more years at over $1.6M?

what was beaty getting paid for other than to stay in [ Finebaum ]ty job? his teams won 6 games in 4 years and he basically now can pick and choose what to do for the rest of his life because of what? a reputation he had as an assistant coach?

so not off a track record of success, but the perception of what he was worth.....ah similar to saying a players autograph is worth $20?
 

HG73

Active Member
Pennsylvania already working on similar legislation. Probably other states too that I haven’t heard about. Going to be hard for the B1G to stop scheduling teams from Pennsylvania ...
Maybe the legislation is a fallback position to be used if needed. Even with the legislation can't the school or conference decide whether to allow it?
Asking for a friend.
 

TX_Krötenechse

Active Member
once again, i have never said pay the athletes during this discussion.

simply allow them the same right you are granting the school and the coaches in outside income .

gary and jamie get paid by the school and are paid quite well. yet they are allowed to be paid additional income from the shoe companies, from various sponsors etc... yet a college athlete can not have a side form of income

our youngest daughter was on multiple academic scholarships studying accounting and it was perfectly okay for her to use the skills she learned to do side jobs doing book keeping for some local businesses and on her resume was that she was an accounting student at her school.

an art student on scholarship can sell their work for money, but a tennis player can't get paid for teaching tennis lessons.

college athletes are singled out in a way no other student on scholarship is singled out simply because of what might happen. our kids have had friends who were on so much scholarship money to some schools they were banking money and yet the school did not impose restrictions on what they could or could not due with the skills they learned at the school.
Is there a rule preventing scholarship athletes from having a part time job outside of campus, as long as it isn’t related to their sport?
 
I'm not attempting to say that because attendance is higher then that means popularity is higher. Just making the point that the popularity is very high even though it's still behind the NFL. You can't deny that.

As far as basketball goes, the college game has kind of become a one trick pony with the NCAA tournament for the vast majority of the country. This is really all about football though. That's the driver for everything, even though there is revenue in men's basketball.
once again, football is king.
 

Planks

Active Member
Athletes in the revenue sports do have a job, playing the sport they were recruited for. Their pay is tuition, room and board, stipend, medical, strength and conditioning, meal plan. That is probably more income value than what some non-athlete is getting waiting tables at a restaurant trying to make his next tuition payment. The point is athletes are getting paid already.

The problem with that argument is that the athletes are usually funneled into General Studies and other useless majors that they can’t get a job with. Between practice, film study, workouts, traveling, and games, athletes have very little time left for studies and classwork. Getting a degree in an actually valuable major (Engineering, Biology, Computer Science, Nursing, etc.) becomes virtually impossible. Take a look at the majors of any college football roster and try and explain how much educational value they are actually getting. Players are expected to be athletes first, students far second. Anyone who thinks they are getting the same student experience as regular students is deluding themselves.

And then there’s the simple fact that many players would rather be paid in cash than in school tuition. Many players have families they are trying to support, and they obviously can’t feed their families with tuition, and that problem is exasperated by the fact that they now don’t have time for a job due to all the time they have to spend in football related activities.

What if tomorrow your boss came to you and told you that from now on you would be getting paid with educational courses, room and board, and even a nice meal plan. And that the value of this package is MORE than your current cash salary. What would your reaction be?
 

HToady

Full Member
Texas needs to counter California.

Then we need to recruit based on the State having no state income tax.

No way will California be able to compete with that!
 

GenXFrog

Active Member
What if tomorrow your boss came to you and told you that from now on you would be getting paid with educational courses, room and board, and even a nice meal plan. And that the value of this package is MORE than your current cash salary. What would your reaction be?

If I'm 18 years old, playing HS sports and working a dead end job at McDonalds, I'd take it.

I get your point on the potential earning value of the degree they take. That said, any degree is more valuable than no degree at all.

If, as you suggest, the degree is of no value to them, and it really is all about the benjamins, the issue is actually with the professional league, its access requirements, and their choice of sports.
 

Eight

Member
i really am amazed at the number of people who speak as if college football and basketball are in some type of vacuum and changes haven't been going on for some years.

the continued infringement of the shoe companies and the impact of television have basically made those two sports minor league sports hiding behind the veil of amateur athletics and the impending changes are not the result of a few misguided california legislators, but the ncaa tying to hold to a stance the court has ruled against multiple times.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
The problem with that argument is that the athletes are usually funneled into General Studies and other useless majors that they can’t get a job with. Between practice, film study, workouts, traveling, and games, athletes have very little time left for studies and classwork. Getting a degree in an actually valuable major (Engineering, Biology, Computer Science, Nursing, etc.) becomes virtually impossible. Take a look at the majors of any college football roster and try and explain how much educational value they are actually getting. Players are expected to be athletes first, students far second. Anyone who thinks they are getting the same student experience as regular students is deluding themselves.

And then there’s the simple fact that many players would rather be paid in cash than in school tuition. Many players have families they are trying to support, and they obviously can’t feed their families with tuition, and that problem is exasperated by the fact that they now don’t have time for a job due to all the time they have to spend in football related activities.

What if tomorrow your boss came to you and told you that from now on you would be getting paid with educational courses, room and board, and even a nice meal plan. And that the value of this package is MORE than your current cash salary. What would your reaction be?

Your attitude seems to be that the players don't care about an education, they are just in college to plays sports. Well, that kind of needs to change for the good of everyone involved, and it has nothing to do with allowing players to get paid for their likeness. I've seen too many cases where kids both play football and end up with a very good, marketable degree in hand as well so it's not like it can't be done. Kids who have no interest in "playing school" quite honestly shouldn't be going to school and shouldn't be playing an NCAA sport. We've kind of gotten to the point where the NCAA is supposed to play the role of a de-facto minor league system for the professional leagues, which is total BS in my opinion.
 
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Wexahu

Full Member
i really am amazed at the number of people who speak as if college football and basketball are in some type of vacuum and changes haven't been going on for some years.

the continued infringement of the shoe companies and the impact of television have basically made those two sports minor league sports hiding behind the veil of amateur athletics and the impending changes are not the result of a few misguided california legislators, but the ncaa tying to hold to a stance the court has ruled against multiple times.

No, we get it, it's a dirty business and there are a lot of unseemly and illegal things that have gone on behind the scenes....hell, going back 80+ years if we're being honest. But I've yet to hear one rational solution to the problem that wouldn't in effect end amateur sports. Is that really what we're trying to do here? Where does the integrity of the academic side of this come into play as it relates to the NCAA? Does anyone even care about that? There are like a million questions out there that once you introduce a pay-for-play aspect to college sports will come into play and most of the talking heads I listen to haven't even considered most of them, they are just frustrated/angry that some people are making a lot of money.

Just because a system in place isn't perfect doesn't mean you blow the whole damn thing up.
 
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