• The KillerFrogs

Quarterback stat comparison

BABYFACE

Full Member
Agree with the first part, and question the second part. How can we discount and write off a junior quarterback such as Collins? I still believe he will win the job this year. I am reminded of Baylor under Briles. All of his QBs had to wait their turn and they were very good when they did. If Duggan has to wait till his junior year (or redshirt sophmore year because he could redshirt next year and still play 4 games), then so be it.
Fair point. If he is the best QB at that this current time, then I want him to start. For me, I don’t care who the QB is, I just want the one that gives TCU the best chance to win.
 

froginmn

Full Member
Great, move him to running back. He’s accomplished some things, yes, and he is apparently a very fine young man by all accounts.

But for myself and perhaps others, there is about 3 plus years of evidence and now 4 games this season, that he isn’t a very good quarterback in the true sense of the word.
As long as you ignore the fact that he threw the two longest completions of the year, there is definitely evidence that he can't throw the ball.

That's my point. Everyone keeps finding reasons why his accomplishments "don't count".

Long run? It was against a terrible defense that none of our RBs could get a long run against.

Long passes? I'm sure there's some reason why that isn't impressive.

Better running stats than the other QBs? Must be because the others got sacked. Except I pointed out that this isn't the case.

He doesn't "look" like a passer, but Max "looks" like a good runner, some say. I just see people ignoring the actual facts to fit the conclusion.

I don't think he should start. But I also don't think he should be benched, or moved to RB.
 

HG73

Active Member
All due respect this is trying to change facts to fit the conclusion.

With Duggan, he's been sacked 6 times for a loss of 44 yards. Take away those 6 carries and he has 20 carries for 56 yards. 2.8 per carry.

Edit: Collins has been sacked 6 times in his TCU career for 41 yards.

Delton has been sacked 3 times for a loss of 26. Without the sacks he's run 12 times for 114 yards. 9.5 per carry. Even with his three sacks (where we lost more yardage on average) he's 5.9 per carry.

You can hammer Delton for throwing but you're seeing something that isn't there if you think Max has been an effective runner. He certainly can be, but hasn't shown it yet.
But he's a dang good blocker.
 

Eight

Member
As long as you ignore the fact that he threw the two longest completions of the year, there is definitely evidence that he can't throw the ball.

That's my point. Everyone keeps finding reasons why his accomplishments "don't count".

Long run? It was against a terrible defense that none of our RBs could get a long run against.

Long passes? I'm sure there's some reason why that isn't impressive.

Better running stats than the other QBs? Must be because the others got sacked. Except I pointed out that this isn't the case.

He doesn't "look" like a passer, but Max "looks" like a good runner, some say. I just see people ignoring the actual facts to fit the conclusion.

I don't think he should start. But I also don't think he should be benched, or moved to RB.

so if he shouldn't start and he shouldn't be benched exactly what should he be for the frogs?
 

Chongo94

Active Member
As long as you ignore the fact that he threw the two longest completions of the year, there is definitely evidence that he can't throw the ball.

That's my point. Everyone keeps finding reasons why his accomplishments "don't count".

Long run? It was against a terrible defense that none of our RBs could get a long run against.

Long passes? I'm sure there's some reason why that isn't impressive.

Better running stats than the other QBs? Must be because the others got sacked. Except I pointed out that this isn't the case.

He doesn't "look" like a passer, but Max "looks" like a good runner, some say. I just see people ignoring the actual facts to fit the conclusion.

I don't think he should start. But I also don't think he should be benched, or moved to RB.

Well, the fact is that his completion percentage has fallen every single year since his sophomore season. I put more weight on that than 2 long passes and one long run.

That doesn’t mean he can’t be beneficial for the team in some sort of capacity, but for me, history shows that as a quarterback, we should try other options...particularly since he is a 5th year grad transfer.
 
Last edited:

Endless Purple

Full Member
# 1 Duggan has struggled with ball security but I don't see that being a long term issue.
# 2 Duggan has been better by a landslide...
That is also my assumption based on watching the games.

I would like to see Collins get some time in the next game or two as well, keeping Delton for those short yardage downs.
 

Frogmore

Member
With all due respect Duggan played in the same game against the same defense and didn't rip off a big run.

Nor did Sewo, Anderson, Barlow, or Demercado.

Just proves that this board wants to diminish the accomplishments of Delton.

Just give him credit for what he does. Why is that so difficult?
Yes!! This board is trying so hard to make this all about Duggan. The kid's been so-so. He threw better against Kansas, but we also handed him a lot of quick passes to the line of scrimmage. Yes, they were effective, but I think I may be able to get some completions on those. Delton has been so-so, too. Believe me, I see that. But, let's stop twisting facts and making excuses for either of them. No one has shown themselves to be the next big thing. The road ahead is going to be much harder than Arkansas Pine Bluff and Kansas. I'm still pissed over Baldwin being too hurt to start the season, but I'm still hoping we get to try him out as well.
 

jake102

Active Member
The huge thing is that if both QBs are playing so-so, you play Duggan every single time. Like it’s such a no brainer it shouldn’t be discussed. One guy is a freshman with three years ahead of him and the other guy is a 5th year senior who can’t help us beyond this year.
 

Raw Frog

Full Member
The huge thing is that if both QBs are playing so-so, you play Duggan every single time. Like it’s such a no brainer it shouldn’t be discussed. One guy is a freshman with three years ahead of him and the other guy is a 5th year senior who can’t help us beyond this year.

Now that Collins is healthy, he should be in there after Max since he has shown better passing and good running ability, plus he has this year and next year to help us...
 

Eight

Member
Yes!! This board is trying so hard to make this all about Duggan. The kid's been so-so. He threw better against Kansas, but we also handed him a lot of quick passes to the line of scrimmage. Yes, they were effective, but I think I may be able to get some completions on those. Delton has been so-so, too. Believe me, I see that. But, let's stop twisting facts and making excuses for either of them. No one has shown themselves to be the next big thing. The road ahead is going to be much harder than Arkansas Pine Bluff and Kansas. I'm still pissed over Baldwin being too hurt to start the season, but I'm still hoping we get to try him out as well.

why would you be mad over a player being hurt?
 

Eight

Member
The huge thing is that if both QBs are playing so-so, you play Duggan every single time. Like it’s such a no brainer it shouldn’t be discussed. One guy is a freshman with three years ahead of him and the other guy is a 5th year senior who can’t help us beyond this year.

this becomes the issue in the quarterback room for me.

up until this past week the frogs really had two viable options at quarterback, duggan and delton.

i won't go into why one versus the other as no need to go down that rabbit hole again, but i think most on this board would agree that neither delton or duggan have looked great, they each have had moments, each have shown flaws, and there have been moments when a lot of opportunity was left out on the field in the passing game.

now with collins apparently healthy, the frogs have a third option. mike has been at tcu 2+ years so he knows the system, he has shown he can be effective throwing the football, has some mobility, and there are some who believe had he been healthy through fall camp would have been the starter.

sonny has one helluva a quandry in how do you handle this situation. do you game prep with three quarterbacks? do you split practice reps with the number one's three ways? do you ask duggan to red-shirt since he is only at four game? if max does start on saturday in ames and he struggles do you pull him and in so who comes into the game?

the position has always been that the team will do what is best for the team and the best for the program. the next few weeks will be interesting to see how this unfolds and if postiion holds firm or waivers.
 
Last edited:

Raw Frog

Full Member
Anybody that can make Davis look like he has sticky hands of glue should be getting some snaps. Collins threw a beautiful 20 harder to Derius and it stuck like velcro on him. There had not been a pass like that in all previous games.
 

jake102

Active Member
I wouldn’t freak out if Collins was the starter going forward, he is probably our most consistent option. I do think you would enter a weird position where it would make sense for Duggan to drop from starter to #3 on the depth chart and not play him unless necessary to preserve the RS.

That being said, I think our first offensive snap against Iowa State will kill his RS. Which will also put us in a weird spot where you look pretty stupid if you end up benching him mid-year.
 

Froggish

Active Member
As long as you ignore the fact that he threw the two longest completions of the year, there is definitely evidence that he can't throw the ball.

That's my point. Everyone keeps finding reasons why his accomplishments "don't count".

Long run? It was against a terrible defense that none of our RBs could get a long run against.

Long passes? I'm sure there's some reason why that isn't impressive.

Better running stats than the other QBs? Must be because the others got sacked. Except I pointed out that this isn't the case.

He doesn't "look" like a passer, but Max "looks" like a good runner, some say. I just see people ignoring the actual facts to fit the conclusion.

I don't think he should start. But I also don't think he should be benched, or moved to RB.

Curious..if you don't start him how is he not benched?...Do you mean he should be a part of a rotation? Cause that is pretty much happening.
 

Eight

Member
You're exactly right. Wrong phrasing. I know the kid's family and I'm just bummed for him. I truly believe he could be a big thing for TCU; just seems to be having some bum luck.

what happens over the next 12-18 months at the quarterback position for tcu is going to be interesting.
 
Top